Burns Oregon Refuge Takeover Ends In Blood

Hopefully the state troopers that pulled them over had the dash cam and microphones on. Leaving the compound was a bad idea on bundys part.

It is odd that the FBI wasn't doing anything about the situation and all of the sudden they get pulled over by state troopers, gun fight, and now all these arrest with the charge of conspiracy to impede federal officers..

Guess we'll see but somehow I suspect if it shows the police escalating then it'll go "missing".


Trumping up a ton of charges is pretty standard. The idea is to make the "potential" jail sentence look as big as possible to scare someone into testifying against the others or even doing a plea deal in order to get lessor jail sentence.

That's why you don't say anything or do anything until after speaking with a lawyer. Makes it fair for everyone involved.

Well, let's be honest for a second.

I don't think this situation can be exactly described in terms of things like what happened in Ferguson the way a lot of people were trying to do regarding the response by officials. Different levels of officials with different initial responses for vastly different situations.

But essentially, yes. By standing around armed saying "we'll kill cops, we just won't fire first" they were essentially terrorists playing a childish-but-potentially-deadly game of sticking their finger in a sibling's face and saying "I'm not touching you."

When you've bragged on and on about how you're armed and willing to kill law enforcement agents and commit other capital crimes, I'm not going to blame law enforcement for erring on the side of caution if they can see you're openly armed and they think you're likely to escalate the situation.

As for Fox or other conservative outlets wanting to find a way to spin this, they have to tread very carefully because it takes a considerable amount of mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the law acted properly in Ferguson against unarmed civilians but improperly against an armed civilian militia that has threatened violence. In many cases it likely won't be worth their time given how little support these criminals got from even the people they were "sticking up for."

It might sound cold but, you don't exactly go protest at a standoff between a family of crazy, semi-anarchist rednecks with a cowboy complex and the feds/cops trying to apprehend them and expect to not get hurt. The protesters should know what they are getting into and the Bundys aren't exempt from the law.

...but I'm kinda an *** when it comes to special snowflakes so my opinion is probably pretty messed up.

I have mixed opinions on this.

One one had, I find the Bundy family to be a bunch of retards who need to pay what they owe.

On the other hand, this should have ended peacefully. I see why it wasn't, I just don't necessarily agree with the situation.

At least it didn't go full Waco.

If that's what you gathered from my statement then there's no discussing it with you.

But see, in this way, it is like Ferguson, because that should have ended peacefully as well.

Or at least non-lethally.

Instead it was lethal from the get-go.

Vastly different situations, but still similarities. Actually more similarities than are comfortable for many, liberal and conservative alike.

C'est la vie.

Why is this being compared to Ferguson?

Its about time they were arrested, they have been attending town hall meetings and going out and about for over a week now, why weren't they arrested then?

I've wondered this myself.

I think a lot of them truly thought this wasn't a problem, that they were doing something perfectly okay.

Maybe they'll get lighter sentences because crazy. You've got to have some sort of delusional disorder to be that far out of touch with reality.


Well, the thing is, from the get-go a lot of people were trying to draw a direct comparison based on authorities' responses to the situations.

It's not really appropriate to draw direct comparisons the way many were given the differences, but despite those differences there are also some fairly notable similarities never-the-less. They're just below the surface, though, so to media completely ignores them and most people don't want to talk about them because they don't particularly highlight any specific group's agenda.

Those people are dumb.

He died a criminal, having accomplished nothing. Nice "legacy."

The ones drawing a direct comparison, yes.

I'm the one suggesting the more subtle similarities that no one wants to discuss. But those similarities have little to do with events as they unfolded and more to do with causation.

Yet was a good man in other ways, apparently (or at least tried to be), and is a good example of why so few things are truly black-and-white.

Or, to say it a different way as applies to many of us at different times, "his heart was in the right place, but his head was up his ***."

His head was just up his *** on the wrong issue in the wrong way.

Edit: I actually find that to be a rather interesting point of the human psych that we can spit so much venom back and forth on topics when we truly have the best interest of humanity at heart. "I want to save lives and make people happy my way and I'll kill you if you don't agree!"

...humans are *** up.

While there are flaws in our legal system that get exploited, it is a very rare occasion that you wind up in prison for deeply held beliefs that aren't completely ignorant or deranged, be it due to mental illness or some other factor.

The pathetic fact about the whole occupation is that they originally went there to protest the imprisonment of some arsonists, and that isn't even on their radar anymore, they don't talk about it, because they never cared about it. It was always about their personal crusade against society. Now they are calling for more militia groups to join them, its like they are lining up to die.

I still don't understand what the protest was about.

I know it's something about paying fees to graze on federal lands, and something to do with the arrests and jailtime of 2 people, but other than that.....

Looks like a continuation of the Sagebrush Rebellion to me.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people understand that, whether they agree with the ranchers or not, the arson case was merely a convenient trigger related to their overarching narrative that they could use as a starting point to rally this action.