FFXIV Nowadays

That is irrelevant to the discussion at hand as is your rose tinted memories of O/U. Both were incredibly easy fights, I've done both with six or less.

The question was which one had more interactive battle content, and the answer is easily FFXIV. It's a matter of coding and which platform each was cloned from. WoW is more immersive and dynamic then Everquest.

Notice I never made a value judgement on which was more enjoyable or better, that's subjective and will be different for each person. Some people enjoy FFXI's numbers based approach, others prefer FFXIV's action based approach, and then there are even more immersive games which aren't part of this discussion.

Actually the whole conversation got sidetracked because you don't know what interactive means but insist on using it to win an argument you stopped even arguing about 20 posts ago.

The original statement I made, which you disagreed with, was that FFXIV is likened to the preschool of combat when compared to FFXI.

So what Altima said *IS* relevant to the actual discussion, unlike 90% of what you are saying. FFXIV combat is easy, it is boring, it requires minimal thought or skill and can be cleared by people who simply have good REACTION times (god damn that word again) and have watched or read a guide outlying the heavily scripted mechanics.

FFXI lacks the being forced to move around the battlefield aspect so not as much "interacting" with the environs, while FFXIV lacks the need for any real thought process or attempts at innovation or... INTERACTION with the content.

They both suck, but when you get right down to it, FFXIV is the more simple and noob friendly of the two.

No that's just you being an angry piss ant.

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

*Cough*


And problem solved.

Uh, no Saevel, what Grumpy Cat said is one of many reasons I quit playing XIV.
There are no dynamics in any of the fights, every single battlefield is scripted to follow a certain patern and (at least when I still played) it does not deviate from that patern at all.
It's fun the first couple of times you do the fights, but at a certain point you know exactly what's going to happen next to a millisecond precisely and start moving beforehand. Then boredome and frustration ensues.

Sure, we can't really accuse FFXI of having super intelligent game mechanics, but at least some of those can still bend you over and take you to the Alps, no matter how good your group is.
In XIV only human error will.

Ah yes, because pointing out that I already pointed out your inability to deal with being wrong and how it resulted in you acting like a petulant child clearly shows how wrong I am about you...acting like a petulant child?

Seriously dude you have had what three or four people now come in and tell you how wrong you are. Is it that hard to just accept it?

I mean I have no problem coming back in here again and again to remind you that you are wrong until we get this muther effer locked up, but think of the time saved if you could just acknowledge it instead.

Look at what have I done by mentioning ffxiv here, I swear it's a taboo ._.

Psst that's actually good game design. The outcome of any situation should be 100% controllable by the players, luck should never be a factor.

Anyhow I'm still playing FFXIV and you guys are greatly over stating it the phased combat battles on boss NMs, which FFXI also has btw. FFXI NM's do the exact same thing, use's X move at Y% HP, we just ignore it entirely because it's mostly irrelevant as we just dice roll our way through. FFXIV forces you to deal with different mechanics and tactics with each stage of the combat where as FFXI you can just ignore it and BST / Death MB your way through since the moves are random anyway.

And the statement still stands, FFXIV's battle system is more interactive then FFXI's.

Plus you stopped playing XI anyway. Not enough "hard" monsters that deal 99,999 HP per hit with automatic death, petrify, amnesia, paralyze, terror and doom on hit.

Think about it like fishing.

On the one hand you have FFXI, which is some old dude out on a boat trying to catch the big one. He knows this fish well, he learned about where it lives, what time of day to fish for it, what type of bait to use. His dice as you put it are all stacked up. He sits still, it's pretty boring to watch until certain queues where he has to take action occur. He has to have an understanding of his gear, his strategy, his capabilities etc in order to catch the fish.

Then you have FFXIV

Lots of flashy colors, moving parts, very exciting! However anyone can just pick it up and start fishing. There is almost no knowledge or expertise needed, you just need to recognize the patterns of opening and closing mouths and move your magnet into place.

And this is what they call an opinion. Personally I like the random "Hey! Want to see something cool?!" aspect of things XI offers.
XIV doesn't. Or at least didn't, I'm not sure since haven't played it since 2014 and frankly I don't have enough interest to start playing it again.
That said, it doesnt make one battle system better than the other.

If you mean by stopped playing that I stopped having interest in actively commiting myself to endgame events, then yes, you are correct.

Most of you play at times where I'm either at work, or asleep, apart from that with my life as it currently is I can't play by any normal schedule anyway. (Nothing negative, by the way)
I have been enjoying getting the rest of my jobs to 99 and attempting to cap my skills, where I go from there, not sure.

Reading comprehension do you have it


My statement is as such


This isn't about which game is more fun or has a better system, it's just about the technology used to code each games battle system. FFXI has zero interactivity in the battle system, it's all just stacking stats on both sides. FFXIV has some interactivity in the battle system, precisely because of the environment and that phased battles. Some interactivity is more then no interactivity and thus the statement above is true.

Now what you, and the others, read this as "FFXIV is better then FFXI" or "FFXIV has better battles then FFXI", neither of those is true. FFXIV and FFXI are simply too different to compare in their entirety. The one that is "better" would be the one that better suited a particular individuals entertainment desires.

Now are you guys done defending your favorite sports team?

XIV isn't as interactive as you claim it is. XIV's battle system is a sewing patern with infinte retries.

And that's where I'm leaving it.

It's more interactive then FFXI's which is what I've stated all along. You people keep projecting your own feelings onto the statement though.

Because you are WRONG. (Don't worry bud, you weren't right, I was just sleeping!)

Let's look at small parts of combat in each game okay? For your benefit I will look at WAR in both games since I think that is what you said you played in FFXIV.











So like... 5-2 and that was being generous and including the battlefield itself as part of the combat/battle system.

How in the world can you sit there and seriously say that a combat system is more interactive when the player has such an insignificant input on the process?

You have to push more of the same buttons quicker, I'm guessing.

If we want to pretend subjobs and XIs gear options are actually difficult choices to make, that's cool. I mean, it's not like we have a forum dedicated to dissecting and telling everyone what the optimal of both are for whatever situation.

Oh, and choosing a job isn't difficult either. Only half of the 22 jobs in the game are considered viable outside of content that is already faceroll easy.

And man, gotta love that out the the 15 or so weapons skills for each weapon, basically only 2 are viable. In Dragoon's case, the second one is dependent on the weapon you're using, so you can proc an aftermath and get back to spamming Stardiver.

So my MCH is only level 30 but to answer your questions about it, its some what of a pet class (i dont have them yet) but you can summon several different kinds of drones to help do damage or support the party.

Its very similar to bard/archer in many aspects however one reason i have avoided leveling bard and mch so far was some... weird changes they made to the physical ranged classes or well rather introduced with heavenward.

That being both bard and machinist get a stance that boosts their dps in the late levels however it adds a cast time to your abilities effective turning you into a bulletmancer or arrow mage.

Machinist gets to draw cross class abilities from lancer and archer, which have 2 of the best dps buffs in the game, that said most of machinists actions are significantly weaker than most of the other classes.

Additionally they work a bit funky, some where between the combo system of most melee classes and proc system of bard and black mage.

Basically you have 2 main abilities you will use constantly, Hotshot which is 120 potency but gives a buff that increases physical damage by 5% and Split shot which has a potency of 140 (which is 10 less that most classes starting combo hit, even heavy shot for archer is 150)

Split shout has a 50% chance to increase slug shot's potency by 80, slug shot is 100 potency unless split shot procs making it 180. later on slug shot will have a 50% chance to make the next Clean shot +100 potency, clean shot is 100 potency unless slug shot procs.

That said the main mechanic behind machinist is the ammo system (or at least at my level currently) you have 2 abilities that give you an ammo buff Reload and quick reload.

Reload gives you 5 stacks of ammunition and has a 60 second cool down.

Quick reload gives you 1 stack of ammunition and has initially a 30 second cool down but later on gets lowered to 15.

The ammo buff does 2 things, 1 increases your weapon skill potency by 20 and more importantly forces split shot and slug shot to activate their secondary effect thus forcing them to combo.

Looked up the turret info, you basically have 2 drone/auto turrets, 1 that basically auto attacks the same target as you (switches target the second you use a weapon skill on a new target) and the other is an AOE turret,

Additionally you can force either turret to stop auto attacking to provide a party support buff, the single target turret will give a TP regeneration effect whereas the aoe turret will give a mp regeneration effect.

anyways hope that was helpful~

50-75% of the skills in 14 are weapon skills hence they consume TP the other 25% to 50% are buffs or stance type perpetual skills in which most classes need to constantly swap between depending on the situation.

Example dark knight and grit, as part of mp management you disable grit to activate blood weapon since both cannot be up at the same time.

In 14 positioning matters to ninjas to, and as far as raids go most bosses need to be positioned in very specific locations, that said that is usually pretty static on where that needs to be.

sure you have more options for gear and even specific subjob combinations could make other weapons more viable however 99% of the time there is only one weapon to go with in 11 so yeah you COULD equip sword and shield but likely going to get looked at funny. further more swapping to vitality accessories in the middle of combat would do you no good anyways as (currently vit will soon effect dps for tanks) vitality only effects max hp, considering you have a sucky healer you are already stuck, BUT after you wipe you can swap to vitality accessories, only thing that is locked in duty is your class, you can still change your gear while inside a dungeon. so bad example mate.

Pretty much agree with on ability augmentation that there isn't much in the way of variety there however given most efficient play aka meta which exsists in every other MMO there only boils down to a very slect few ways to "customize" your character, and as a tank in 14 atm that meta is to distribute stats to STR and wear str accessories, that will probably shift next patch as they are revising tank damage to use some vitality (will have to see what the theory crafters spin out on how much weight vit gets) so likely shift in the meta towards vit stacking (which makes sense since their main role is to tank not dps)

14's combat system may not be as interactive from player to player, or even like samurai self skill chaining however knowing how to use your class abilities properly (which seems rarer than you would like to believe) is by no means less complex, and a good warrior is not very reliant on goad. rather to say tanked all pre HW and before ninja was a thing and was fine without goad or army peon from bard. additionally after skill chain magic burst parties died out due to haste gear TP burn parties, which even dominated the meta of endgame, arguably save for personal usage of abilities 11 lacks the inter person coordination that skill chains and magic bursts bring (though latest expansion seems like they made somewhat of a comeback?) though i will say some of the abilities 11 had were far more complex. where as 14 is alot more action orientated.

in terms of positioning, 11 lacked native distance indicators considering range and distance had decent signifigance in multiple situations (rangers, max distance of skills, boss aoe's) and also lack of visual indication for the range of the boss' i win skills.

In fact many bosses in 11 had i win because abilities, not really much strategy to those at all.

lastly i would agree without using windower 11 was far more difficult to play, some of which was artificial however due to the over need of macro's for gear swapping.

That said its rare for any one to play vanilla style anymore so honestly i dont think that one really counts now does it? not to mention even with the CD timer displayed on icon you usually dont have time to just watch it count down as there is a but ton of stuff to dodge and adds to manage meaning you still need to be fairly conscious of when your cool downs are ready with out staring at them the entire time.

Stahp, just stahp.



If you seriously do this, then you are terrible and should not be playing DRK. Like that is really stupid and bad.

In fact that is SUCH a stupid thing to say that I can't even be bothered to read anything else you posted because you have given me such a low opinion of your skill and knowledge as a player.

Seriously people, this thread is dead, it derailed and I crushed it. Everything anyone else tries to say will be wrong. I am sorry but that is just how it is.

Yeah, this thread has kinda derailed, come back, and is kinda getting to the point of "no u" and the reason it hasn't been noticed before has to do with mod caching on the XI side not showing XIV threads despite showing everything else.

There is MCH section which I'm moving this to to lock it with the assumption that OP has found the answer to their questions somewhere.