SCH Vs. BLM

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2010-06-21
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SCH vs. BLM
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 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-09-04 14:16:38  
Sch has a skirt for AF.
therefore Sch is better.
kthxbai
/endthread
 Pandemonium.Vincevalentine
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By Pandemonium.Vincevalentine 2009-09-04 14:18:00
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Ludoggy said:
Sch has a skirt for AF.
therefore Sch is better.
kthxbai
/endthread


I agree.
 Bahamut.Rydiya
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By Bahamut.Rydiya 2009-09-04 14:18:35  
Ludoggy said:
Sch has a skirt for AF.
therefore Sch is better.
kthxbai
/endthread

Only ifyou are a female.. and not a tarutaru.
 Bahamut.Rumaha
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By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-09-04 14:23:48  
Vincevalentine said:
Ludoggy said:
Sch has a skirt for AF.
therefore Sch is better.
kthxbai
/endthread


I agree.
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 14:24:34  
Ludoggy said:
Sch has a skirt for AF.
therefore Sch is better.
kthxbai
/endthread

I still find it sad to see that sexy skirt get ruined by Mahatma slops or Jet seraweels or Cobra trews hmg on females characters , stupid SE designed the skirt as part of the body D: , It hurts my eyes everytime I see that living fashion disasters.
 Bahamut.Rydiya
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By Bahamut.Rydiya 2009-09-04 14:25:17  
Holyman said:
Ludoggy said:
Sch has a skirt for AF.
therefore Sch is better.
kthxbai
/endthread

I still find it sad to see that sexy skirt get ruined by Mahatma slops or Jet seraweels or Cobra trews hmg on females characters , stupid SE designed the skirt as part of the body D: , It hurts my eyes everytime I see that living fashion disasters.

>.> At least for drains and Aspir.. I swap in relic panties.
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 14:30:18  
Rydiya said:

>.> At least for drains and Aspir.. I swap in relic panties.


Good gurl :D , looks > functionality :Q , nuke pretty , aspir pretty , drain pretty.

Thanks God they made it useful for something , relic panties look so good to be useless ;; .
 Bahamut.Rydiya
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By Bahamut.Rydiya 2009-09-04 14:32:24  
>.> I only use for dark magic casts.. They suck to nuke in otherwise.
 
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By 2009-09-04 14:35:49
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 Bahamut.Rydiya
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By Bahamut.Rydiya 2009-09-04 14:37:09  
OMG! It's a WHM! Keel it an' take it's pretties!
 Gilgamesh.Alyria
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By Gilgamesh.Alyria 2009-09-04 14:38:35  
:/ Out u two!
 Alexander.Miradj
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By Alexander.Miradj 2009-09-04 14:40:29  
Uematsu said:

My bliz4 no obi does 2200~ to puds..


Really?
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 14:44:09  
Korpg said:
Quick question, have you ever did a 5x BLM/SCH and 1 SCH/RDM party before? And I mean you as a BLM, not as the SCH.

Do that real quick, and see how effective BLM/SCH really is, with a smart SCH/RDM who gives out Stoneskin once every so often. And yes, I'm talking about endgame also.


No, because that would be as stupid as RDM/SCH with difference , while you might not lose your basic functionality as RDM subbing SCH & it can be useful in meripo or something , it's total bust for BLM , you're assuming there is babysitter "SCH/RDM" for you in the PT who will stoneskin/phalanx/blink/ & give you storms full time, which isn't the case most of the time .. being teamplayer doesn't make you totally dependant defensive wise on someone else.

What to gain?
-slighlty better INT than /RDM by 2 points?
-Parsimony 2 charges recharge every lol2 mins?
-Fast cast 10% "cast/recast"
-Dark Arts bring up your enfeebling magic to 246 for those lazy *** who didn't merit enfeebling magic to max?
-mp conservation 10% "which is the mostly good point here"
-access to some -nas but requires being in Light Arts + having Addendum white active aka consume 1 of the 2 miserable charges u have ?
What to lose?
-Gravity, & good enfeebles
-STONESKIN/BLINK/PHALANX
-while having parsimony might be good thing , IT can be 2 edged sword as well , losing self control to "try spamming big nukes like AMII" is NOT good thing in the wrong hands , yes BLM main job to nuke , but to self control more , & being part of the team , to know when to hold your horses off ..

Endgame wise , for something retardly boring like any dynamis town , this might be tolerable idea .. But God helps the babysitter "SCH/RDM" , cause I won't like to be in his shoes.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 14:44:44  
Miradj said:
Uematsu said:

My bliz4 no obi does 2200~ to puds..


Really?

Yeah I'd like to see this myself. SS please
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 14:46:58  
Rydiya said:
>.> I only use for dark magic casts.. They suck to nuke in otherwise.

I know ;; sadly enough they don't have that good int boost nor can beat fugly pants mahatma slops , I just have them on my profile pic for looks D: , I look like disaster myself in nuking gear with Ree's habalo/Seline cap/Royal Redingote & Mahatma slops + V.mufflers , bleedings eyes.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 14:47:29  
Holyman said:
Korpg said:
Quick question, have you ever did a 5x BLM/SCH and 1 SCH/RDM party before? And I mean you as a BLM, not as the SCH.

Do that real quick, and see how effective BLM/SCH really is, with a smart SCH/RDM who gives out Stoneskin once every so often. And yes, I'm talking about endgame also.


No, because that would be as stupid as RDM/SCH with difference ,

Sorry this is all I read. Seeing as sch is a very good sub for rdm. In fact its what I'd use in a good 90% of the time. Nowadays I /nin as much as I do /blm or /whm
[+]
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 14:52:31  
meh I had my arguement before about RDM/SCH , not the right place to go through that convo again , but I made my points before about it ..

Regardless , it's personal opinion .. sorry if I disrespected you in a way or another .
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 15:00:25  
What's a BRD's role in anything then? You depend on them for fulltime buffs and debuffs at ALL times.

Why can't a SCH/RDM who could also help you nuke?

Whats wrong with that idea?
[+]
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 15:07:47  
Nothing wrong with "storming" you fulltime as it is part of the job , but you're implying to fulltime stoneskin/phalanx/blink mages that can do it theirselves if they subbed the "right" sub .

SCHs have better things to do in BLM party than that.

It's not the same thing as BRD's role lol , I'd rather give you storms/almost full time klimaform/toss nukes as well & heal as needed .. instead of busting my charges on stoneskin bunch of BLMs who chose me to be their babysitter.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 15:09:37  
Holyman said:
Nothing wrong with "storming" you fulltime as it is part of the job , but you're implying to fulltime stoneskin/phalanx/blink mages that can do it theirselves if they subbed the "right" sub .

SCHs have better things to do in BLM party than that.

It's not the same thing as BRD's role lol , I'd rather give you storms/almost full time klimaform/toss nukes as well & heal as needed .. instead of busting my charges on stoneskin bunch of BLMs who chose me to be their babysitter.

The idea is getting 5 nukers with parsimony instead of 1. Because in a pt of blms that would help dmg more than you nuking
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 15:14:41  
Holyman said:
Nothing wrong with "storming" you fulltime as it is part of the job , but you're implying to fulltime stoneskin/phalanx/blink mages that can do it theirselves if they subbed the "right" sub .

SCHs have better things to do in BLM party than that.

It's not the same thing as BRD's role lol , I'd rather give you storms/almost full time klimaform/toss nukes as well & heal as needed .. instead of busting my charges on stoneskin bunch of BLMs who chose me to be their babysitter.


Just Storms and Stoneskin, a good BLM doesn't need Klimaform.

Blink helps, but its also easy to get rid of with AoE, which is what a BLM/SCH has to worry about the most.

Just Stoneskin/Storm a party, then you are right back into nuking. Hell, you don't even NEED to fulltime Stoneskin, just when there is a bad pull or a lot of links, or at the last 25% of that mobs's health.

Dasva said:

The idea is getting 5 nukers with parsimony instead of 1. Because in a pt of blms that would help dmg more than you nuking
[+]
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2009-09-04 15:30:21  
Korpg said:
Just Storms and Stoneskin, a good BLM doesn't need Klimaform.

Blink helps, but its also easy to get rid of with AoE, which is what a BLM/SCH has to worry about the most.

Just Stoneskin/Storm a party, then you are right back into nuking. Hell, you don't even NEED to fulltime Stoneskin, just when there is a bad pull or a lot of links, or at the last 25% of that mobs's health.

Dasva said:

The idea is getting 5 nukers with parsimony instead of 1. Because in a pt of blms that would help dmg more than you nuking


Well if that the case ;o , I'd like to try it in manaburn based Dynamis sando or windy "hate those lol" , or maybe in apollyon can be fun , maybe Ouryu?, idk..

But still sounds too unbalanced & "overkill" in any other situation & doesn't fit endgame situations at all , other than what I mentioned .

Not Einherjar , Not HNMs fights where u need to control hate as much as controlling damage.. Regardless , I can't see where that setup can fit? , not even in puddings ordinary meripo , simply overkill & waste.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 15:34:33  
Get good tanks that get to the hate cap quick... I used to go blm/sch to proto omega all the time. Only time it was really an issues is when I tried to litterally do 5 nukes litterally back to back
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 15:40:02  
Holyman said:

Not Einherjar , Not HNMs fights where u need to control hate as much as controlling damage.. Regardless , I can't see where that setup can fit? , not even in puddings ordinary meripo , simply overkill & waste.


Actually, I would see merit in doing this for Einherjar.

You need a BLM party for sleeping ***anyway, why not have the BLM/SCH, SCH/RDM setup?

It would save you for having to have a RDM for refresh the BLMs there, and whoever uses BRDs for that purpose needs to lose.

2 BLM/SCH and 1 SCH/RDM in merit on puddings would work, you don't even need to have the full party setup to get to chain 11.
 Garuda.Antipika
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By Garuda.Antipika 2009-09-04 16:09:55  
Uematsu said:
My bliz4 no obi does 2200~ to puds..

User submitted image 1/10
 Leviathan.Antonioklaus
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By Leviathan.Antonioklaus 2009-09-04 20:43:30  
BLM was able to solo LBC where SCH was not.
I've never seen a SCH manaburn Ouryu fight.

SCH is dynamis is nice.

Quote:
Kanican's Live Journal
Black Mage VS Scholar

As mentioned many times in some of my previous posts on the subject, Scholar is a much more MP efficient nuker than BLM due to the use of Parsimony charges as well as the innate Dark Arts bonus. Although BLM can deal more damage when given only a short period of time, over time, a SCH has the potential to deal out more much damage in the long run given equal resist rates.

The fact that BLM can nuke harder in short spurts is really not a benefit in most HNM fights since you're not looking for strong spurts of magical damage typically (such spurts are generally for melee damage, while magical damage is used for "control" fights). Really the only thing BLM has as an advantage over SCH when it comes to long duration HNM fights is their higher base magic accuracy - a base difference of +20 Skill and +2 INT. Long story short:

If a Scholar can attain the same magical accuracy on elemental damage as Black Mage, it will be superior to Black Mage as a magical DD in every meaningful way - MP efficiency, enmity control, and overall damage output.

If you are a Scholar, your goal is really to do this. Endgame is about efficiency - the efficient get spots in the alliance, the inefficient generally would/should not. The question is, is this possible now? In the future?
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 21:20:17  
Yeah but to achieve said macc you lose ALOT in dmg gear.
And when you low man things minimizing tp gain is pretty important. As such more dmg per spells/hits used is pretty important.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-09-04 21:34:06  
Antonioklaus said:
BLM was able to solo LBC where SCH was not.
I've never seen a SCH manaburn Ouryu fight.

SCH is dynamis is nice.

Quote:
Kanican's Live Journal
Black Mage VS Scholar

As mentioned many times in some of my previous posts on the subject, Scholar is a much more MP efficient nuker than BLM due to the use of Parsimony charges as well as the innate Dark Arts bonus. Although BLM can deal more damage when given only a short period of time, over time, a SCH has the potential to deal out more much damage in the long run given equal resist rates.

The fact that BLM can nuke harder in short spurts is really not a benefit in most HNM fights since you're not looking for strong spurts of magical damage typically (such spurts are generally for melee damage, while magical damage is used for "control" fights). Really the only thing BLM has as an advantage over SCH when it comes to long duration HNM fights is their higher base magic accuracy - a base difference of +20 Skill and +2 INT. Long story short:

If a Scholar can attain the same magical accuracy on elemental damage as Black Mage, it will be superior to Black Mage as a magical DD in every meaningful way - MP efficiency, enmity control, and overall damage output.

If you are a Scholar, your goal is really to do this. Endgame is about efficiency - the efficient get spots in the alliance, the inefficient generally would/should not. The question is, is this possible now? In the future?


Bolded statment is the problem. SCH will be very hard pressed to get the ideal INT120/Skill320 that is needed for most HNMs. I seriously doubt they can achieve that imo.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 21:37:04  
Korpg said:
Antonioklaus said:
BLM was able to solo LBC where SCH was not.
I've never seen a SCH manaburn Ouryu fight.

SCH is dynamis is nice.

Quote:
Kanican's Live Journal
Black Mage VS Scholar

As mentioned many times in some of my previous posts on the subject, Scholar is a much more MP efficient nuker than BLM due to the use of Parsimony charges as well as the innate Dark Arts bonus. Although BLM can deal more damage when given only a short period of time, over time, a SCH has the potential to deal out more much damage in the long run given equal resist rates.

The fact that BLM can nuke harder in short spurts is really not a benefit in most HNM fights since you're not looking for strong spurts of magical damage typically (such spurts are generally for melee damage, while magical damage is used for "control" fights). Really the only thing BLM has as an advantage over SCH when it comes to long duration HNM fights is their higher base magic accuracy - a base difference of +20 Skill and +2 INT. Long story short:

If a Scholar can attain the same magical accuracy on elemental damage as Black Mage, it will be superior to Black Mage as a magical DD in every meaningful way - MP efficiency, enmity control, and overall damage output.

If you are a Scholar, your goal is really to do this. Endgame is about efficiency - the efficient get spots in the alliance, the inefficient generally would/should not. The question is, is this possible now? In the future?


Bolded statment is the problem. SCH will be very hard pressed to get the ideal INT120/Skill320 that is needed for most HNMs. I seriously doubt they can achieve that imo.

Kaeko did... granted he had auerole and really most people have a better chance getting relic weapon. Regardless even if they do they'd be wearing like 0 MAB gear. While a blm can wear plenty have more native and if your a taru probably even going over on int by a little. Especially if your eating food.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-09-04 22:06:04  
Ok with this gear setup assuming 1macc~1skill http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=107096 You can get 319/119 if you fully merit elemental but not int and are taru and eating cream puffs and still manage to have a whopping 10MAB equipped.
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