SCH Vs. BLM
SCH vs. BLM
Also what sub is that for sch? And on what spells and mobs? Makes a bit of a difference
Rumaha said:
Korpg said:
Enternius said:
I just want to add something that's sorta related, this graph, by Kanican/Kaeko (You may know him as the best BLM who ever lived, who now condones SCH over BLM) shows just what I mean when I say SCH is the most efficient nuking job.
What about a graph showing a BLM/SCH using Parsimony?
If it follows the same increase path, 14.46 would be BLM w/ Parsimony, but that BLM might not be /sch and there are variables etc etc.
Another thing that's bugging me, whats the INT/MAB ratings on both the SCH and the BLM when comparing these graphs?
I want numbers!
Idk yo lol, I just answered your question 4 pages later.
What also bugs me is it claims that ebulience is enough by itself to make sch more efficient. Yet even nekkid a blm should do a decent more dmg and geared alot more. -10% from dark arts make that big a difference
If I remember correctly, Ebullience is calculated after everything else.
Taken from: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ebullience
* Ebullience is a stratagem, which obeys different usage rules than typical Job Abilities.
* Increases potency by 20%. Works with drain, aspir, bio, nukes, and helix. Does not work with enfeebles.
* The potency increase is calculated after all other factors, including Magic Attack Bonus and day/weather bonuses.
You see why this matters more at high levels, right? Testing Stone isn't going to really let that JA shine.
Taken from: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ebullience
* Ebullience is a stratagem, which obeys different usage rules than typical Job Abilities.
* Increases potency by 20%. Works with drain, aspir, bio, nukes, and helix. Does not work with enfeebles.
* The potency increase is calculated after all other factors, including Magic Attack Bonus and day/weather bonuses.
You see why this matters more at high levels, right? Testing Stone isn't going to really let that JA shine.
Vincevalentine said:
If I remember correctly, Ebullience is calculated after everything else.
Taken from: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ebullience
* Ebullience is a stratagem, which obeys different usage rules than typical Job Abilities.
* Increases potency by 20%. Works with drain, aspir, bio, nukes, and helix. Does not work with enfeebles.
* The potency increase is calculated after all other factors, including Magic Attack Bonus and day/weather bonuses.
You see why this matters more at high levels, right? Testing Stone isn't going to really let that JA shine.
Taken from: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ebullience
* Ebullience is a stratagem, which obeys different usage rules than typical Job Abilities.
* Increases potency by 20%. Works with drain, aspir, bio, nukes, and helix. Does not work with enfeebles.
* The potency increase is calculated after all other factors, including Magic Attack Bonus and day/weather bonuses.
You see why this matters more at high levels, right? Testing Stone isn't going to really let that JA shine.
The test was for an EVEN GEARED BLM AND SCH TRIAL meaning the BLM and SCH has to have = gear on and compare the damage based off of that. The question brought this trial was that SCHs can equal the same damage as BLM with the same gear, as stated by this quote:
Jaybess said:
i am sorry but wtf, u have blm M robs bashing sch's really wtf..... give sch M robe and see what happens really.. SCH doesnt get thos items cuz if they did they would break the game. whiles were at it rdm bears blm cuz u can refresh,
lol all in all 1 major factor stopping sch own blm and that is the lack of gear sch has since its a new job!.
give sch M robe/set,give sch weskit then see how its dmg is.
the best way is for some1 with sch AND blm 75 0 merits on both jobs with the SAME! gaar on the same day nuking
100 nukes of 1 spell and take the average from both jobs and see who does better dmg
all nice saying "what if" but untill blm can aspirGA in dynamis i will lets u guys "rest" since u drain ur mp pool in 3-4 nukes( depending on race)
all in all there are to much lolblms due to burn partys THATS the main reason blms are getting bashed
for events like dynamis "really" sch is the best jobs hands down, 5DD 1brd group just took a beatting with 2 back to back AoE TP move no fear AoE cure 4 cross party bk in2 dark arts bobs ur uncle
before kids start bashing ooo the mnks they need stuns >< no they dont ur ls sucks at killing them, and well sleeping mobs.... have 1 blm/sch in the mix for when u want 2 stacvk sleepga with sleepga ii sorted 3sch/blm 2sch/rdm 1brd will make 5 blm/rdm 1 brd look SO bad its a joke
until sch gets EG+ gear like M robe for itself the subject is stupid
lol all in all 1 major factor stopping sch own blm and that is the lack of gear sch has since its a new job!.
give sch M robe/set,give sch weskit then see how its dmg is.
the best way is for some1 with sch AND blm 75 0 merits on both jobs with the SAME! gaar on the same day nuking
100 nukes of 1 spell and take the average from both jobs and see who does better dmg
all nice saying "what if" but untill blm can aspirGA in dynamis i will lets u guys "rest" since u drain ur mp pool in 3-4 nukes( depending on race)
all in all there are to much lolblms due to burn partys THATS the main reason blms are getting bashed
for events like dynamis "really" sch is the best jobs hands down, 5DD 1brd group just took a beatting with 2 back to back AoE TP move no fear AoE cure 4 cross party bk in2 dark arts bobs ur uncle
before kids start bashing ooo the mnks they need stuns >< no they dont ur ls sucks at killing them, and well sleeping mobs.... have 1 blm/sch in the mix for when u want 2 stacvk sleepga with sleepga ii sorted 3sch/blm 2sch/rdm 1brd will make 5 blm/rdm 1 brd look SO bad its a joke
until sch gets EG+ gear like M robe for itself the subject is stupid
What his complaint was if you basically seperated the *** from the complaint was that SCH doesn't have the same gear as BLM to be compared together with. So, I did a test to show an equal testing field with SCH and BLM. Notice this though, that you can't have weather effects on or it won't be equal thanks to the /random weather effect proc rate. So, we did exactally what he wanted. An even playing field. I even let the SCH use that +20% potency stratagem just to prove my point.
Long story short, no matter what, BLM will outnuke SCH even with the exact same gears on. We could try this with Thunder IV on worms and the results will still be the same. There would be no difference between the % of difference with Stone I and Thunder IV, because BLMs have better JTs than SCHs. With ALL GEARS THE SAME.
Thats why, its gearchoice that determines who's the better nuker, and still, BLM wins because of better selection.
Ebullience is after everything else... which of course means the more MAB you have the better it will be with a similar increase of MAB. However blm without counting better gear options will have 18 more MAB just from JT/merits. Unless the sch subs blm then 22... of course then blm can just /sch. OR sch is sub whm lol.
Well lets just ignore MAB from gear and do the equation assuming sch/rdm.
1*1.2(/rdm MAB)*1.2 from ebullience= 1.44
1*1.42 (32 from jt 10 from merits)= 1.42.
Pretty damn close. No factor in better MAB gear. The fact that a blm wont have to wear hardly any if any skill/macc gear compared to a sch which will need alot to land on higher mobs not to mention the int diff between the jobs.
Well lets just ignore MAB from gear and do the equation assuming sch/rdm.
1*1.2(/rdm MAB)*1.2 from ebullience= 1.44
1*1.42 (32 from jt 10 from merits)= 1.42.
Pretty damn close. No factor in better MAB gear. The fact that a blm wont have to wear hardly any if any skill/macc gear compared to a sch which will need alot to land on higher mobs not to mention the int diff between the jobs.
I give up.
BLM has a lot of statistics going for it damagewise, but the only thing SCHs have going for them is Dark Arts and Parsimony. Which can also be exploited by a BLM.
No matter what anyone is going to say, the bottom line (which has been proven over and over again) is that BLM is going to do the most damage period. Even if you are going to argue that Thunder IVs for SCH does more damage than Thunder IVs for BLM, you have to admit that Burst II is going to do more damage than Thunder IV. With Parsimony up, that bring it down to 144 BEFORE CONSERVE MP CAN KICK IN which means, with the right gear, it can go down as far as 18 mp.
You think that 18 mp Burst II for 2,300 damage isn't worth it?
BLM has a lot of statistics going for it damagewise, but the only thing SCHs have going for them is Dark Arts and Parsimony. Which can also be exploited by a BLM.
No matter what anyone is going to say, the bottom line (which has been proven over and over again) is that BLM is going to do the most damage period. Even if you are going to argue that Thunder IVs for SCH does more damage than Thunder IVs for BLM, you have to admit that Burst II is going to do more damage than Thunder IV. With Parsimony up, that bring it down to 144 BEFORE CONSERVE MP CAN KICK IN which means, with the right gear, it can go down as far as 18 mp.
You think that 18 mp Burst II for 2,300 damage isn't worth it?
Ive done all 6 AM2s in a row without outside help 2hr or meds before... was awesome. You said its only 5 int diff between blm and sch? Ill go test what 5int can do on a geared blm
Korpg, the guy you were replying to there didn't really have two brain cells to rub together. Comparing the two jobs when one clearly has more MaB naked is just stupid. However, the gear that SCH does get is enhanced further by it's JA's. You can't seriously tell me you don't understand that.
And sure, I agree that AMII is better, that's a no brainer. You are the one that just keep ignoring the fact that comparing two jobs when one of those two jobs has MULTIPLE USES is just stupid. BLM for nuking, by a small margin, SCH by a long *** shot for anything else.
And sure, I agree that AMII is better, that's a no brainer. You are the one that just keep ignoring the fact that comparing two jobs when one of those two jobs has MULTIPLE USES is just stupid. BLM for nuking, by a small margin, SCH by a long *** shot for anything else.
Dasva said:
Ive done all 6 AM2s in a row without outside help 2hr or meds before... was awesome. You said its only 5 int diff between blm and sch? Ill go test what 5int can do on a geared blm
I said the 5 INT difference was between an Elvaan and a Hume.
Oh well what was it between sch and blm main? Other way even with the same gear options sch will have to wear ALOT more skill/macc gear to compensate for the much lower skill on even semi resistant mobs. While blm will just wear dmg gear in those slots
Between my 75 SCH and 73 BLM as /rdm.. INT wise, there's about a three INT difference.
Mithra without int merits btw.
Mithra without int merits btw.
Vincevalentine said:
Korpg, the guy you were replying to there didn't really have two brain cells to rub together. Comparing the two jobs when one clearly has more MaB naked is just stupid. However, the gear that SCH does get is enhanced further by it's JA's. You can't seriously tell me you don't understand that.
And sure, I agree that AMII is better, that's a no brainer. You are the one that just keep ignoring the fact that comparing two jobs when one of those two jobs has MULTIPLE USES is just stupid. BLM for nuking, by a small margin, SCH by a long *** shot for anything else.
And sure, I agree that AMII is better, that's a no brainer. You are the one that just keep ignoring the fact that comparing two jobs when one of those two jobs has MULTIPLE USES is just stupid. BLM for nuking, by a small margin, SCH by a long *** shot for anything else.
The debate here is damage and damage/time. Not survivability or usefulness.
And correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't have SCH past 37 to test this, but don't you HAVE to have your gear on full time to get those "Enhances Dark Arts" ability to stay active? If that is the case, wouldn't that kill your nearest available gear to come even close to a BLM: Royal Redingcoat.
Dasva said:
Oh well what was it between sch and blm main?
For Hume, the difference is 2INT (BLM/RDM vs SCH/RDM).
Korpg, Enhances Dark Arts is just +15 skill, with a few INT.
The Redingote honestly isn't that great though. When I eventually get back to the game and get BLM75, I'll parse the differences between that, Weskit, and SCH AF body.
The Redingote honestly isn't that great though. When I eventually get back to the game and get BLM75, I'll parse the differences between that, Weskit, and SCH AF body.
Rydiya said:
Korpg, Enhances Dark Arts is just +15 skill, with a few INT.
The Redingote honestly isn't that great though. When I eventually get back to the game and get BLM75, I'll parse the differences between that, Weskit, and SCH AF body.
The Redingote honestly isn't that great though. When I eventually get back to the game and get BLM75, I'll parse the differences between that, Weskit, and SCH AF body.
I seen the numbers, and the difference between a Redingote and a NQ weskit is very small. With MAcc+4 and MAB+4 on it though. I forget the actual numbers, but I did see it on a BG forum page a while back.
This was before I got my NQ weskit with INT+3, which blew that theory out of the water. <3 my NQ weskit, will only sell it when I get Morri Body.
[+]
Rydiya said:
Korpg, Enhances Dark Arts is just +15 skill, with a few INT.
The Redingote honestly isn't that great though. When I eventually get back to the game and get BLM75, I'll parse the differences between that, Weskit, and SCH AF body.
The Redingote honestly isn't that great though. When I eventually get back to the game and get BLM75, I'll parse the differences between that, Weskit, and SCH AF body.
Well the thing is sch needs that 15 skill. Redingote depending on current int and MAB is anywhere as good as slightly less than a NQ weskit to somehwere between HQ and NQ weskit. Not counting the conserve mp on it.
http://kanican.livejournal.com/
Enough with the retard comparison topics , SCH can't replace BLM nor WHM ..
Yet SCH is superior to BLM in terms of Damage /MP ratio which means SCH is superior to BLM , same for SCH & WHM .. MP effeciency wise & versatility , SCH wins.
That doesn't make SCH easily replace either , to the OP .. Both jobs have different uses , SCH depends on your playing style , for me it's strictly hybrid/support job , depends what party I'm in within the alliance , what are the jobs in your party , what can you offer to them to make em function better , & if you have spare mp & you're not main healer , toss helix + modus & or couple of nukes .. It ALL DEPENDS on the situation in hands , you can't just assume yourself as full time whm or blm , because that would be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE & you better level up something else
For a job that requires more than three brain cells to play , SCH is definately the one , otherwise you can level up BLM .. But watch out don't nuke crazily/stupidly , stupid BLMs have no place in some HNMLSs , not everything you nuke is lolflans..
Enough with the retard comparison topics , SCH can't replace BLM nor WHM ..
Yet SCH is superior to BLM in terms of Damage /MP ratio which means SCH is superior to BLM , same for SCH & WHM .. MP effeciency wise & versatility , SCH wins.
That doesn't make SCH easily replace either , to the OP .. Both jobs have different uses , SCH depends on your playing style , for me it's strictly hybrid/support job , depends what party I'm in within the alliance , what are the jobs in your party , what can you offer to them to make em function better , & if you have spare mp & you're not main healer , toss helix + modus & or couple of nukes .. It ALL DEPENDS on the situation in hands , you can't just assume yourself as full time whm or blm , because that would be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE & you better level up something else
For a job that requires more than three brain cells to play , SCH is definately the one , otherwise you can level up BLM .. But watch out don't nuke crazily/stupidly , stupid BLMs have no place in some HNMLSs , not everything you nuke is lolflans..
Honestly.. The Redingote even pales in comparison to the Errant Houp.. I'm fairly close to just throwing it out.
Rydiya said:
Honestly.. The Redingote even pales in comparison to the Errant Houp.. I'm fairly close to just throwing it out.
Um... errant isnt even close to redingote in terms of dmg or even macc. Thats like saying 5int~ 4MAB/macc...
[+]
Korpg said:
The debate here is damage and damage/time. Not survivability or usefulness.
Boyaci said:
I'd like to read some reasons why you believe SCH is superior to BLM, or vice-versa as I decide which to take to 75.
My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?
My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?
Hi, welcome to the thread, where it's a general usefulness discussion.
Dasva said:
Rydiya said:
Honestly.. The Redingote even pales in comparison to the Errant Houp.. I'm fairly close to just throwing it out.
Um... errant isnt even close to redingote in terms of dmg or even macc. Thats like saying 5int~ 4MAB/macc...
The Redingote at least on my Scholar falls too short of where it should on damage.
Vincevalentine said:
Korpg said:
The debate here is damage and damage/time. Not survivability or usefulness.
Boyaci said:
I'd like to read some reasons why you believe SCH is superior to BLM, or vice-versa as I decide which to take to 75.
My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?
My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?
Hi, welcome to the thread, where it's a general usefulness discussion.
Well actually that OP isn't very specific but the current disussion is about dmg. For that matter as far as usefullness go thats not even a discussion. What else besides nuking would you discuss between a job defined by nuking and one that can do it well?
Rydiya said:
Dasva said:
Rydiya said:
Honestly.. The Redingote even pales in comparison to the Errant Houp.. I'm fairly close to just throwing it out.
Um... errant isnt even close to redingote in terms of dmg or even macc. Thats like saying 5int~ 4MAB/macc...
The Redingote at least on my Scholar falls too short of where it should on damage.
Like I said you really need the skill on sch. But really with the lower MAB the diff between the margin between redingote and weskit would be even more in favor of weskit if sch could wear it but be a even bigger difference between errant and redingote
Rydiya said:
Honestly.. The Redingote even pales in comparison to the Errant Houp.. I'm fairly close to just throwing it out.
lolwut, Errant Houp has only INT+5 over Royal Redingote with right augments for SCH "MAB+4 Macc+4" , which means 2.5 macc if your dINT≥10 , so 2.5 macc vs 4 m.acc + MAB+4 , that's totally not "pales in" .
[+]
Holyman said:
http://kanican.livejournal.com/
Enough with the retard comparison topics , SCH can't replace BLM nor WHM ..
Yet SCH is superior to BLM in terms of Damage /MP ratio which means SCH is superior to BLM , same for SCH & WHM .. MP effeciency wise & versatility , SCH wins.
That doesn't make SCH easily replace either , to the OP .. Both jobs have different uses , SCH depends on your playing style , for me it's strictly hybrid/support job , depends what party I'm in within the alliance , what are the jobs in your party , what can you offer to them to make em function better , & if you have spare mp & you're not main healer , toss helix + modus & or couple of nukes .. It ALL DEPENDS on the situation in hands , you can't just assume yourself as full time whm or blm , because that would be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE & you better level up something else
For a job that requires more than three brain cells to play , SCH is definately the one , otherwise you can level up BLM .. But watch out don't nuke crazily/stupidly , stupid BLMs have no place in some HNMLSs , not everything you nuke is lolflans..
Enough with the retard comparison topics , SCH can't replace BLM nor WHM ..
Yet SCH is superior to BLM in terms of Damage /MP ratio which means SCH is superior to BLM , same for SCH & WHM .. MP effeciency wise & versatility , SCH wins.
That doesn't make SCH easily replace either , to the OP .. Both jobs have different uses , SCH depends on your playing style , for me it's strictly hybrid/support job , depends what party I'm in within the alliance , what are the jobs in your party , what can you offer to them to make em function better , & if you have spare mp & you're not main healer , toss helix + modus & or couple of nukes .. It ALL DEPENDS on the situation in hands , you can't just assume yourself as full time whm or blm , because that would be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE & you better level up something else
For a job that requires more than three brain cells to play , SCH is definately the one , otherwise you can level up BLM .. But watch out don't nuke crazily/stupidly , stupid BLMs have no place in some HNMLSs , not everything you nuke is lolflans..
Quick question, have you ever did a 5x BLM/SCH and 1 SCH/RDM party before? And I mean you as a BLM, not as the SCH.
Do that real quick, and see how effective BLM/SCH really is, with a smart SCH/RDM who gives out Stoneskin once every so often. And yes, I'm talking about endgame also.
Vincevalentine said:
Korpg said:
The debate here is damage and damage/time. Not survivability or usefulness.
Boyaci said:
I'd like to read some reasons why you believe SCH is superior to BLM, or vice-versa as I decide which to take to 75.
My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?
My current 75s are PLD WHM RDM DRK THF RNG. What do you feel would best compliment these jobs?
Hi, welcome to the thread, where it's a general usefulness discussion.
Where does it say "usefulness" in his quote? He is asking which one is "better" (hint, superior is a fancy word for better). Having RDM leveled would give him the ability to put merits in Elemental and Enfeebling before he even starts leveling either job. So that point is moot.
Since you may think that "usefulness" = "better" then let me ask you this: What is the point of asking the difference between BLM and SCH? You think its because SCH is a better healer than BLM? Or could it be if he wants to know which one is a better nuker? Think that out.
I'd much rather go for my high resist set on Scholar, than nuke in that redingote.
You're inferring that he was talking specifically about better nuking damage, I'm inferring that better is all around usefulness. Until the OP specifies, we're both wrong.
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