11/13/2015 Paris Terrorist Attack

Oh a refugee basher. Should have known. Thanks for doing ISIS' work for them.

If it was only like that. Basicly you wake up with it and go to bed with it each single day - Maybe not when you live in the outskirts tho.

Kay'.

We know threat but we have not prepared for this ! If i had to think on potential attack on every moment we stop to leave and paranoia begin ...

Probably thinking this as a fight against terrorism is the biggest failure in US strategy. ISIS isnt just a terrorist group anymore. Its an entire army growing each day that ocident tries to combat them as mere groups, and resorting to attacks with drones. That tactic, used including by France, of aerial bombing is just putting those countries citizen in risk, as it isnt being effective against ISIS as its growing each day, and giving them the reason to counter attack with jihadists.

Unfortunelly, middle east problem is extremelly complex, going from social problems like huge poverty, political problems of dictatorships repressing any chance of pacific and democratic solution, and finally a religious problem, of sune and shiites.

Maybe the only possible solution would be an open war with terrestrian troops to try to establish a democratic government but Iraq failure certainly will make that solution impossible aside that Russian backing up Bashar Al Assad sure will prevent any terrestrian solution from Ocident. But while none can decide anything, ISIS keeps expanding in Syria, and retaliating any petty drone attack with suicide jihadist. Could as well just leave that region alone, if the ocident isnt planning to effectively invade Syria. Bombing or financing "moderated rebels" is the trademark of the failure Obama was regarding the middle east problems.

The main problem is that even if you bomb 100% of the Middle East, my neighbours will still post on Twitter about Allah being great and ISIS being the right hand of Allah. Or whatever ***they posted yesterday to defend the terrorists. And one day, a part of them will be the people who will bomb the Vélodrome, or whatever they feel like bombing.

And if it's not my neighbours, it'll be yours, and so on.

Objectively, if there is a problem and the world needs to fix it in order to help the world as a whole, then there is no arguing allowed and the whole region is turned to dust. But we've voted a lot of laws that protect those countries as if they were behaving like us, and vice versa. So here we are, and here they are. Until we see "crazy" national leaders come back under the spotlight in the West, nothing will change.

All in all, even if I'm hurt in my France, I also feel sorry for Muslims who didn't ask for anything but to live a peaceful life. The same way I feel bad when my country does stupid stuff to others in my name, I understand how bad it feels to have people who follow your religion and have the same ethnic origins as you and yet actively fight to make your life worse.

Maybe these terrorists just need to be taught the existence of FNM on Fridays. Maybe they'd have taken part in a tournament instead of blowing stuff up. We'll never know.

This is not a middle east problem. This is a world problem.

It is a religious problem, but not one of Sunni-Shiite conflict save in the broad sense.

It is a problem of religious radicalization. I suggest this article as a way of understanding how we got to things like this most recent horror.

How Saudi Arabia exports radical Islam
The Week

Its too long to copypasta.

Its a world problem as the concepts that are the base of democracy and the middle east dictatorship arent compatible, either will try to destroy the other to survive. So, at some point middle east dictatorships will start a war against ocident values.

But im refering only to the attacks against France. There is a whole story behind it but those attacks, as well against Charlie Hebdo, could be avoided if ocident had a more effective politics against ISIS (sending troops) instead the current one.

Unfortunelly, innocent people are paying with their lifes the messed politic to solve the Syria conflict. US had army in Iraq for 10 years and i dont remember any attack in american territory during that time. But after the drones started to bomb, ISIS conquered ~50% of Syria and we already have 2 attacks in ocident territory in a year.

From that article:

"Where has Wahhabism reached?
Nearly everywhere in the Muslim world except where Iran holds sway. In the 1980s, Saudi money and fighters poured into Afghanistan to help the mujahedeen fight the Soviets, an effort that gave rise to the Taliban and eventually to al Qaeda."

Do you know who else helped those Mujahideen fighters against the Soviets?

Finding a solution to the problem requires going back to the source, finding what started it all and then taking steps to remedy the situation. Does anyone believe fighting violence with more violence is the solution? It's been decades and the situation is getting worse, not better.

I don't mean to sound callous or anything remotely close to it, but the terrorism we've been dealing with in our lifetimes is a direct result of our meddling in middle eastern affairs. It's time we removed our military forces from the region and gave them what they wanted - the same thing we want - the option to live their lives as they see fit. Let the changes come from within.

Figured this soon as it happen waited for some kind of proof.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/619447/Paris-terrorist-Syrian-refugee-Greece-government-official
Paris terrorist was a Syrian refugee.

Meanwhile..
Obama moves to 'increase and accelerate' admission of Syrian refugees...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/syria-refugees-u-s-centres-1.3308576

Try century's dude.

Take your own advice.

Worked really well in Iraq huh.

Eh, i do agree that, if ocident cant definitively solve the middle east conflicts, its wiser to just leave them alone. Half assed politics just will end backfiring the population. But thats a pov of a citizen. Obviously deciding to get involved with that mess has lots of others reasons like oil, geopolitic influence, etc.

I just wouldnt be naive to believe they will live their lifes as they wish. Thats an ocident value, not a value in those faraway countries. Syria is a great example as it had a coup detat in the mid 90s and have been controlled by Al Assad dad and kid till now, simply by destroying anyone oposing, killing people in protests, forbiding new oposition party to be formed, controlling parliament, etc. Those unfortunate will never be able to live as they want. The most suitable term would be: let them kill themselves and leave us alone. But we just need to mess with them... And in a poor way...

Indeed I do.

St. Ronald the President decided, in his infinite wisdom, that the Afgans and Pakis were nothing but a bunch of hippie Sufi pacifists and just needed a bit of that old time religion to stiffen their spines.

We asked the Saudis to send radical immans. They were happy to.

He's right. Almost a millennium now.

Fixed. Mostly tourist and student, no actual immigrants I think.

I'm sorry, please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you Seriously suggesting killing every single person in a country because a small group did bad stuff?.

That's a special kind of Psychopath thinking there.

While I understand what your point is, and yes it "might" solve some issues, you're thinking is somewhat limited in terms of strategy, you honestly don't believe groups like this work in cells outside their own country? Destroying their country simply solidify their beliefs and they work in secret and kill more people.

Surgical and tactical Strikes are required to kill those responsible to terrorism, not the innocents who didn't support it and just go about their lives.

If you stand by this, then perhaps you should consider the following:

KKK - You're offering to Purge us of America? No thanks.
Red Brigade Terrorist Group - That's an Italian Terrorist organisation, guess we better bomb Italy also, along with yourself while we're at it? I'm not a Pyscho so I'll say no. You may keep your life.

Seriously the dumbest ***ever posted by yourself.

There is no way to stop terrorism, all you can do is fight back against a constant tirade of it, no matter how many uprisings you squash, another will try because people crave power, and will follow those who manage to sell it to them in the form of belief's or through Charisma.

Until you manage to unify every single person in the world, constantly, this will constantly occur. What we need is less pussy footing around and more sanctions/red tape cutting ***to allow countries to take action against such acts rather than having to wait 5 months to get past the UN to go and bomb/kill terrorist cells such as these.

He decided to leave it unfinished and has consistently screwed the entire situation.


You're delusional.


It never left.


Lying to reinforce your nonsensical point. Good job.

Altima weren't you asked to not *** up this thread?

He is Politics and Religion Pro bruh - Let him tell us the truth - the solution and let us watch him stop terror bombs.

We get it, Alti; you hate Obama and are not above weaponizing a tragedy to attack him with. You've made your point. You were asked on page 1 to not ***up the thread and from what I can see, that's exactly what you're trying to do by representing your opinion as fact. I think you've had a few too many so it's time to cut you off.

***, this makes me so angry. So *** angry. Not the AO bs by the way, most of us know he's full of it anyway.

I'm talking about the main point. I wish I wasn't a broke teacher and I could actually do something with this anger. I've tried to rationalize my thoughts on this, but NOTHING about it is rational. I've had to sit idly by as shooting after shooting came knocking on our own footsteps, and now France is dealing with a disaster. When the *** is this ***going to end, really? When will we say enough is enough? Violence only begets more violence.

I have refrained from talking on the subject because I don't have a snarky way to look past it. I don't have some witty retort. I don't even have a semblance of a concrete thought. I'm trembling while typing this. Just... ***, I don't know.

I'm not going to say you're wrong. In fact, history is rife with evidence that you're right. But what do we do in a situation like this? Looking at this as realistically as possible, what is something that could actually get them to stop? Changing the hearts of these terrorists is nearly impossible. Let's face it. Humans are stupid. Even the "intellectuals" are stupid. We're not at the point where we can talk our way out of this, because terrorists operate on a level that neither logic nor compassion can reach. The only feasible way to do it is wipe them and their kind out, and there's almost no way to do that without negative consequences.

Reality sucks.

Yes.

To put it simply: all you do is keeping things the same, bombing the ***out of the whole region removes 90% of the issue and the 10% left in our very own countries can be dealt with within a few years. If you remove the headquarters and make sure not to allow them to ever, ever, ever get a new HQ, they will never be able to restructure themselves. This may include some freedom restriction for citizens like you and me, but you need to give up some to gain some.

Being diplomatic is nice and all but we are in 2015 and nothing has changed. Maybe we should stop being pussies and go back to the old ways: these people have the ability to create humanity's cancer, what if we wipe them out?

That's not my opinion, just objectivity. My opinion would be yours, but I understand that this opinion is completely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and will not solve anything. There is a point where you need to be decisive, wanting to keep innocents alive at all cost is counter productive so you need to leave your feelings outside.

It's not like we bomb them out of nowhere. The other solution as given above would be to simply remove everything the West has there. We leave them alone, they're happy, we're happy. If they resume bombing us anyway, then we clean the region. But that would imply giving up money for the US and other countries, etc etc, politic is annoying. Bomb it, simple and clean©.

Bomb the whole region and you remove at the very least 40 to 60% of them. The rest can easily be taken down given changes in freedom laws and throwing drones down the toilet in favor of ground attacks. Also the part above about making sure they never get a HQ ever again. Their only hope would be internet, which is covered by laws.

And it has proven to be useless, for two reasons.

The first one is that you will always have collateral damage, so right off the bat, your thinking is flawed. You WILL kill innocents. You will. The difference between what I said above and what you say here is the scale. You rather blind yourself and think/say that killing a few innocents is fine, slowly but surely, while I simply say to stop being dumb and kill the whole region since you're gonna hit innocents anyway, at least be efficient when you do so.

Again, my opinion is yours, but our opinion is anything but efficient, this is why we're still drowning in it.

KKK are MLP virgins in comparison to ISIS.
RBTG: as you said, it's Italy's issue. They could clean a city/department, why not, but it's once again not comparable (it's most likely comparable to ETA/FLNC, which is pretty much harmless outside of their very own department).

You need to think about the scale and the actual impact. KKK is borderline a joke compared to ISIS. I don't know what are the statistics of the impact of the KKK but I'm sure it's laughable compared to the threat that ISIS is.

Also, politically speaking, every country has failed big time with Middle East. Do you want to change things or not? No, you want to keep innocents alive and live with the risk of your *** being bombed when going to the post office.

Again, I share your feelings/view/opinion, I just think that our carebear way to deal with terrorism is garbage. Being diplomatic never solved any extreme behaviour, and it never will. When people don't want to be diplomatic, you adjust to them, they bomb us, we bomb them. Easy.

is this how the Zombie apocalypse starts? I mean with bio weapons an all.

As a note, I'm not saying we should do 1:1 what is listed, I'm saying we need to find something half way that is actually efficient.

If you wipe every single one of them, the idealogy would disappear. Remove freedom from your citizens, track them everywhere and anywhere, ruin their mountains, use any weapon you can that will target and eradicate them.

You have an idea that isn't being a vegetable while not doing 1:1 what I'm saying? That'd exactly the point of my first comment, to find something efficient that isn't extreme.

Iraq #1 was good, US just Mc Fuk'dup by going back where they should have never went back (same for any other country involved). But that was already mentioned.
Afghanistan was retardation, Vietnam was full retard, you don't need to be American to loath the government that imposed this ***to their citizens.

These people aren't humans, why do you insist on staying human? Also, the humanity is only given up for a short time, we go back to carebears after we're done removing cancer.
The point is to be efficient, to have an impact. If I'm given the chance to solve the issue that is terrorism at the cost of my humanity or life, I'd do it in a heartbeat, because I want results and my loss is a joke compared to the win.

I don't know what you mean by pulling through. We've been pretty impacted by this specific attack. I won't walk in the main train station of my city as peacefully as I did Friday morning from now on. I'm still fully trusting my fellow Muslim/Arabs citizens, I'm feeling rather safe considering my city's special trait but I'm not feeling safe regarding a possible random guy that will think that blowing up Saint Charles is a good idea.
People will keep living, for the simple reason that we have to. If I stay home because I'm scared of being bombed, nobody will give me money, nobody will put food in my plate. I have to go, everyone has, and I will not think too much about it because it's simply not the kind of person I am, but I don't understand that whole "get through". There is nothing to get through, nothing changes, nothing changed. The only people that will have to move on through something are the people directly involved, the victims, not even the police or army.

The second war in Iraq was not so good. I remember being heavily against everything that happened from Afghanistan to Libya and whatever is going on nowadays. If I was older I may have been just as much against what happened before.
No need for quagmire, systematically eradicate them, leave no stone unturned. If you have a half way solution, then it's even better. We avoid the extreme bombing that won't solve anything while still moving away from the drone jokes and the waste of time that is diplomacy.

We have terrorist groups in France, but you rarely hear about them, like VERY rarely. If anything, drug "debt settling" in my city are the biggest thing happening in the whole country and even then, I'm not even worried one bit about being a collateral damage of it.

This doesn't make sense in light of the recent attacks and especially not the attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.