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Parents sue school over sons suicide
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 09:02:41
But this seems to lack information on all sides so the parent's knee-jerk reaction to file a lawsuit seems misguided. However, that's not to say it is unwarranted if the school administration indeed failed to enforce policy to such an explicit and tragic point. Which will be hard to prove.
The only legal standing the parents would have in this lawsuit is willful negligence.
They have to prove that the school purposefully ignored the bullying that was happening against the kid. Which would be impossible to do so, unless there's a paper trail of complaints.
Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-10-08 10:21:23
Here’s a very important set of facts about the Revolutionary War that every person who would call themselves an American should know.
During the Revolutionary War, only THREE percent of the people actually fought against Great Britain.
Only TEN percent of the citizens actively supported that three percent.
Approximately TWENTY percent considered themselves to be on the side of the Revolution, but they did not actively participate.
Towards the climatic end of the war, approximately THIRTY percent actually fought on the side of the British.
The rest of the citizens had no disposition either way. They didn’t care. They didn’t want anything to do with what they deemed to simply be a political issue.
/readingrainbow
Kind of ironic 100% of the people enjoyed the benefits of liberty and justice over the bloodshed of the few that believed in them. I wonder which % wants rights taken away so quickly from whom?
And every person who would call themselves American should know that even during the period of Westward expansion there were strict city ordinances in regards to gun control. The bang-bang shoot 'em up in the center of towns in the West is a glamorized Hollywood myth.
Lubbock, Wichita, Yuma, Deadwood, Dodge, and plenty of other frontier settlements required that guns be confiscated from civilians when entering the city.
Look up Earp's defense after the infamous shoot out at the OK Corral.
'Murican Territories, y'all. Yee-Haw!
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Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2015-10-08 10:28:28
As a comedian once said
Quote: Your first amendment means I could say the second amendment sucks ***
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 10:40:46
As a comedian once said
Quote: Your first amendment means I could say the second amendment sucks *** That's not how it works, but ok.
Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2015-10-08 10:49:54
As a comedian once said
Quote: Your first amendment means I could say the second amendment sucks *** That's not how it works, but ok. Of course I could be wrong but I don't see how that isn't how it works. Free speech means generally the ability to say whatever you want, there are some exceptions, saying the second amendment sucks *** isn't one of them.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 10:52:55
As a comedian once said
Quote: Your first amendment means I could say the second amendment sucks *** That's not how it works, but ok. Of course I could be wrong but I don't see how that isn't how it works. Free speech means generally the ability to say whatever you want, there are some exceptions, saying the second amendment sucks *** isn't one of them. Free speech only applies against the government.
You can't go to a business, especially a gun shop, shout anti-2nd amendment rhetoric, and not expect to get arrested. First amendment doesn't protect you from harassing businesses and other people.
Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2015-10-08 10:57:48
I just said I could go to America and say the 2nd amendment sucks ***, well I quoted a comedian who made a joke about it. I could do that, people might get pissed off but the first amendment would allow me to say it, not protect me against people's reactions to it.
You added in the additional element of saying it in a gun shop, that's private premises, I could just be standing around doing nothing and they can demand I leave.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2015-10-08 10:59:50
But this seems to lack information on all sides so the parent's knee-jerk reaction to file a lawsuit seems misguided. However, that's not to say it is unwarranted if the school administration indeed failed to enforce policy to such an explicit and tragic point. Which will be hard to prove.
The only legal standing the parents would have in this lawsuit is willful negligence.
They have to prove that the school purposefully ignored the bullying that was happening against the kid. Which would be impossible to do so, unless there's a paper trail of complaints.
well there was that one instance a while back where a school actually did neglect to do anything to help the kid (with learning disability) so the kid recorded the bullying being done on his school issued tablet and they called the cops on said kid for 'fear the boy had illegally wiretapped the other teens.' And the cops initially charged him with disorderly conduct.
So it looks like even if you can prove it... your still screwed.
(side note: i also cant help but mention the fact that the school was out smarted by a kid with a learning disability. I do so love irony.)
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 11:03:33
I just said I could go to America and say the 2nd amendment sucks ***, well I quoted a comedian who made a joke about it. I could do that, people might get pissed off but the first amendment would allow me to say it, not protect me against people's reactions to it.
You added in the additional element of saying it in a gun shop, that's private premises, I could just be standing around doing nothing and they can demand I leave. You still don't get it.
You can protest against the 2nd Amendment and not get arrested for it. That's what the 1st Amendment is all about.
But you cannot go to a business or to people and shout at them, that's not protected by the 1st Amendment.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 11:04:32
But this seems to lack information on all sides so the parent's knee-jerk reaction to file a lawsuit seems misguided. However, that's not to say it is unwarranted if the school administration indeed failed to enforce policy to such an explicit and tragic point. Which will be hard to prove.
The only legal standing the parents would have in this lawsuit is willful negligence.
They have to prove that the school purposefully ignored the bullying that was happening against the kid. Which would be impossible to do so, unless there's a paper trail of complaints.
well there was that one instance a while back where a school actually did neglect to do anything to help the kid (with learning disability) so the kid recorded the bullying being done on his school issued tablet and they called the cops on said kid for 'fear the boy had illegally wiretapped the other teens.' And the cops initially charged him with disorderly conduct.
So it looks like even if you can prove it... your still screwed.
(side note: i also cant help but mention the fact that the school was out smarted by a kid with a learning disability. I do so love irony.) That's not relevant to this case though. That's something completely different.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2015-10-08 11:21:28
But this seems to lack information on all sides so the parent's knee-jerk reaction to file a lawsuit seems misguided. However, that's not to say it is unwarranted if the school administration indeed failed to enforce policy to such an explicit and tragic point. Which will be hard to prove.
The only legal standing the parents would have in this lawsuit is willful negligence.
They have to prove that the school purposefully ignored the bullying that was happening against the kid. Which would be impossible to do so, unless there's a paper trail of complaints.
well there was that one instance a while back where a school actually did neglect to do anything to help the kid (with learning disability) so the kid recorded the bullying being done on his school issued tablet and they called the cops on said kid for 'fear the boy had illegally wiretapped the other teens.' And the cops initially charged him with disorderly conduct.
So it looks like even if you can prove it... your still screwed.
(side note: i also cant help but mention the fact that the school was out smarted by a kid with a learning disability. I do so love irony.) That's not relevant to this case though. That's something completely different.
Quote: They have to prove that the school purposefully ignored the bullying that was happening against the kid.
just pointing out that even sometimes, even if you can prove it, you still end up in more trouble.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2015-10-08 11:37:07
I just said I could go to America and say the 2nd amendment sucks ***, well I quoted a comedian who made a joke about it. I could do that, people might get pissed off but the first amendment would allow me to say it, not protect me against people's reactions to it.
You added in the additional element of saying it in a gun shop, that's private premises, I could just be standing around doing nothing and they can demand I leave. You still don't get it.
You can protest against the 2nd Amendment and not get arrested for it. That's what the 1st Amendment is all about.
But you cannot go to a business or to people and shout at them, that's not protected by the 1st Amendment.
You can so long as you follow the law in doing so. You can go inside and start protesting. If they ask you to leave and call the police, though, you can get charged with trespassing and disturbing the peace. You can, however, be on public land, and shout/protest private businesses. Again, so long as you follow the law (not impeding traffic, not doing or saying anything to start violence, etc)
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 12:00:00
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »I just said I could go to America and say the 2nd amendment sucks ***, well I quoted a comedian who made a joke about it. I could do that, people might get pissed off but the first amendment would allow me to say it, not protect me against people's reactions to it.
You added in the additional element of saying it in a gun shop, that's private premises, I could just be standing around doing nothing and they can demand I leave. You still don't get it.
You can protest against the 2nd Amendment and not get arrested for it. That's what the 1st Amendment is all about.
But you cannot go to a business or to people and shout at them, that's not protected by the 1st Amendment.
You can so long as you follow the law in doing so. You can go inside and start protesting. If they ask you to leave and call the police, though, you can get charged with trespassing and disturbing the peace. You can, however, be on public land, and shout/protest private businesses. Again, so long as you follow the law (not impeding traffic, not doing or saying anything to start violence, etc) Right. I did state that, didn't I?
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-10-08 12:17:19
and nobody thinks of the poor *** that has to scrape this kids brain off the wall... for shame america
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-10-08 12:20:18
and nobody thinks of the poor *** that has to scrape this kids brain off the wall... for shame america He got fired due to budget cuts from a frivolous lawsuit this year.
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Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-10-08 19:25:14
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Sylph.Knala
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By Sylph.Knala 2015-10-09 04:11:07
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Nukes don't kill people or end worlds. People kill people or end worlds. Every nation should have a nuclear bomb for their own defense, and the other governments can take away our nukes over our dark dead shadows on the walls.
while i get what you are saying, and i must preface that i am military however until i had joined the military i had never touched a gun.
That said: gun control is like illicit drugs, people who want to do bad things will find a way to do it, laws are for the law abiding, the lawless take no heed.
Just look at how well prohibition went over and after many years MJ is finally becoming legal (i believe at some point in the nearish future it will become legal in every state)
Anyways my point is despite the fact that i am pro guns despite having no prior exposure to said guns, i find nukes HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE as all hell, at this point we have made them so powerful that any one who uses one is an absolute retard,i believe we should world wide be pushing for total nuclear disarmament, at this point i believe when it comes to nuclear weapondry we have more to fear from a third party unaffiliated extremist group figuring it out over a specific nation/country.
Not to mention the fact that the global economy is intricately interconnected (and the impact of wiping any one country out via nukes), but the M.A.D.'ness (mutually assured destruction) of launching a nuke in this day and age.
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Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2015-10-09 04:29:52
Part of me regrets brining up gun control and the 2nd amendment, it's certainly relevant in this argument but I'd say it should be secondary to the issues of the school being sued and bullying in general.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-09 05:38:37
Just wait till this will somehow turn into a agw discussion.
Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-10-09 06:06:23
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
You also can't compare drugs and alcohol to guns when it comes to an illegal market. There isn't gun addiction. No one is getting high off of guns for recreation. They are simply not the same thing where as drugs and alcohol are.
There is an illegal market for everything too, but that doesn't mean we say "well there goes the point of that". It certainly prevent things like this child bringing a gun to school. He could have changed his mind and shot the place up.
There are alternative ways of killing people too. A fair argument be that knife violence would rise in such a situation, and we have more school stabbings. Fair enough, but certainly a lot less deadly and harder to commit a massacre with now isn't it? Can also disarm the person easier in that situation.
Or a person could just drop a couple dozen bricks off the top of a building and kill a ton of people... guess we should ban bricks now too. Or could put some ground glass in the cafeteria food... guess we should ban glass.
If someone wants to kill you or a lot of people... there is pretty much no way to stop the person until the act happens (unless they try and go about it in a stupid manner that makes it easy to stop them). There are quite a few ways to kill massive amounts of people and there is pretty much nothing anyone can do to prevent it because no one would know about it until the event actually happened. That we haven't seen a lot more massive killings is surprising. I chalk it up to stupid perpetrators who either make it known what they are about to do, or the method they use is easily stoppable. To ban firearms serves no purpose, as the person using a firearm has limited # of bullets and requires skill to hit a target... hitting targets that are trying not to get hit is pretty difficult. Whereas other methods of killing are far more effective and pretty much unavoidable.
By nyheen 2015-10-10 03:26:03
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »I feel this video and references to it have been summoned so much lately.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Just for Tidis, and of course you, Knala.
I used to be pro gun too.
You also can't compare drugs and alcohol to guns when it comes to an illegal market. There isn't gun addiction. No one is getting high off of guns for recreation. They are simply not the same thing where as drugs and alcohol are.
There is an illegal market for everything too, but that doesn't mean we say "well there goes the point of that". It certainly prevent things like this child bringing a gun to school. He could have changed his mind and shot the place up.
There are alternative ways of killing people too. A fair argument be that knife violence would rise in such a situation, and we have more school stabbings. Fair enough, but certainly a lot less deadly and harder to commit a massacre with now isn't it? Can also disarm the person easier in that situation.
this video was spot on, so true. when the last time you heard about a school shooting in other countries? all i rememeber was that one in china and that was a school.. stabbing, in elementary with no deaths. this school shooting becoming so normal here it crazy.
By Voren 2015-10-10 07:49:47
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
You also can't compare drugs and alcohol to guns when it comes to an illegal market. There isn't gun addiction. No one is getting high off of guns for recreation. They are simply not the same thing where as drugs and alcohol are.
There is an illegal market for everything too, but that doesn't mean we say "well there goes the point of that". It certainly prevent things like this child bringing a gun to school. He could have changed his mind and shot the place up.
There are alternative ways of killing people too. A fair argument be that knife violence would rise in such a situation, and we have more school stabbings. Fair enough, but certainly a lot less deadly and harder to commit a massacre with now isn't it? Can also disarm the person easier in that situation.
Or a person could just drop a couple dozen bricks off the top of a building and kill a ton of people... guess we should ban bricks now too. Or could put some ground glass in the cafeteria food... guess we should ban glass.
If someone wants to kill you or a lot of people... there is pretty much no way to stop the person until the act happens (unless they try and go about it in a stupid manner that makes it easy to stop them). There are quite a few ways to kill massive amounts of people and there is pretty much nothing anyone can do to prevent it because no one would know about it until the event actually happened. That we haven't seen a lot more massive killings is surprising. I chalk it up to stupid perpetrators who either make it known what they are about to do, or the method they use is easily stoppable. To ban firearms serves no purpose, as the person using a firearm has limited # of bullets and requires skill to hit a target... hitting targets that are trying not to get hit is pretty difficult. Whereas other methods of killing are far more effective and pretty much unavoidable.
Timothy McVeigh used a Ryder truck and fertilizer. He didn't have a firearm on him and still killed 168 people injuring an additional 600+.
The people involved in 9/11 had box cutters.
IIRC, the two in Columbine had homemade explosives as well (sorry, don't have time to google at the moment, correct if wrong).
Point is, you don't need a gun to create havoc, chaos, and mass casualties.
There's a detriment to doing away with firearms. I doubt it would be overnight, but before you get real comfortable with the idea of not being able to defend yourself, I want you to sit in a room, alone, in the quiet for 10 minutes. Feel how long a time that is. That's the national average for police response time. When you're sitting alone for 10 minutes, imagine having to fight for your life. 10 minutes become an extremely long time.
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By Bismarck.Bloodbathboy 2015-10-11 16:24:27
I miss the days of fist fighting. A few smacks and it's over.
Ragnarok.Hevans
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By Ragnarok.Hevans 2015-10-11 16:36:40
Bismarck.Bloodbathboy said: »I miss the days of fist fighting. A few smacks and it's over.
man that's sad. only a few smacks to take you down?
Quote: Parents sue Florida school district over bullied son's suicide
A lawsuit filed Monday against the a Florida school district alleges that teachers and administrators didn't do enough to prevent bullying that led to a 14-year-old boy's suicide last year.
Lamar Hawkins III, of Sanford, killed himself Sept. 10, 2014 with his father's gun in a bathroom stall at Greenwood Lakes Middle School in Lake Mary.
Attorney Matt Morgan said Lamar went missing for hours and school officials didn't look for him— even after another student found a spent gun shell casing in the school's bathroom and reported it to a teacher.
Lamar's family reported him missing after his mother went to the school to pick him up about 5 p.m. and he was nowhere to be found. Deputies found Lamar in the bathroom with a gunshot wound to his head about 11 p.m.
Lamar's family is suing the Seminole County School Board, alleging negligent supervision, negligent failure to adequately discipline bullies and negligent failure to supervise and account for Lamar's absence before his death.
"We know that just days before he took his life at school that he was literally slapped out of his chair during an altercation," Morgan said at a news conference Monday.
"He took his life at school to send a message, and the message was clear," Morgan continued: "'These bullies drove me to this point so I will commit this act on school grounds so that they know they did this to me.'"
Walt Griffin, the superintendent of Seminole County Public Schools, would not comment on the lawsuit.
After Lamar's death, investigators said the gun the eighth grader used to shoot himself belonged to his father, Lamar Hawkins Sr.
A report released by the Seminole County Sheriff's Office in February said the boy's father, Lamar Hawkins Sr., kept the 40-caliber pistol locked in a gun box in his bedroom closet.
The day Lamar shot himself, his father mistakenly grabbed his wife's keys when he left the house — leaving the key to the gun box at home.
Lamar didn't leave behind a suicide note.
According to the Sanford family, years of bullying led to Lamar's suicide. Because health complications stunted his growth — he was about 4 feet, 5 inches — Lamar was an easy target for bullies.
At the time, Seminole County Public School officials referenced the School Board's comprehensive bullying policy which, they said, is fully enforced in all of their schools.
The School Board's policy manual defines bullying and cyberbullying as unwanted and repeated written, verbal or physical behavior that is systematically used to inflict physical hurt or distress on another student.
After dozens of interviews, Sheriff's Office investigators found that Lamar and his twin sister were picked on and called names but that they were not physically harmed except for a lunchroom fight two days before Lamar's suicide involving Lamar and another student.
Morgan said he received hundreds of phone calls from parents in the area and nationally, complaining that their children have also been bullied at school.
He said a few parents of students at Greenwood Lakes Middle School also called about bullying.
"It appeared to me that there is a big problem at that school," Morgan said about Greenwood Lakes Middle School. That was my opinion as a result of the conversations I had with these parents."
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