Chanti Handicaps The Republican Field
Chanti handicaps the Republican field
I could go for some money laundering and cocaine right now !
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
I've asked you and others to make an argument for a better president in the last three decades than Clinton. So far no one has done so. You're saying that Clinton isn't the best. If he isn't, then which president is?
Reagan has done better in favorability polls than Clinton. If you want to argue between those two, that sounds about right. You were mostly just sounding like, "Gee, I favor the left, so obviously the Democrats are the only good presidents lately, and only a moron would say Carter, so... Clinton and Obama yay!"
Reagan is also the father of our current economic situation of essentially gilded age 2.0, so I think that can be counted against him. Just because the propaganda machine hails him as awesome doesn't mean that he was actually the best. I'd label Reagan as one of the worst Presidents of the last century.
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
I've asked you and others to make an argument for a better president in the last three decades than Clinton. So far no one has done so. You're saying that Clinton isn't the best. If he isn't, then which president is?
Reagan has done better in favorability polls than Clinton. If you want to argue between those two, that sounds about right. You were mostly just sounding like, "Gee, I favor the left, so obviously the Democrats are the only good presidents lately, and only a moron would say Carter, so... Clinton and Obama yay!"
Reagan is also the father of our current economic situation of essentially gilded age 2.0, so I think that can be counted against him. Just because the propaganda machine hails him as awesome doesn't mean that he was actually the best. I'd label Reagan as one of the worst Presidents of the last century.
Worst in the last century I find that hard to believe when Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon are in the mix...
No! Handicap the democrats! You're doing it wrong!
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
No! Handicap the democrats! You're doing it wrong!
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D:
I will you got Hillary and bunch of crazies that no one will vote for. Bernie Sanders and other people you never heard of !
No one heard of Obama but he still got elected. This guy seriously came out of nowhere.
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fonewear said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
I've asked you and others to make an argument for a better president in the last three decades than Clinton. So far no one has done so. You're saying that Clinton isn't the best. If he isn't, then which president is?
Reagan has done better in favorability polls than Clinton. If you want to argue between those two, that sounds about right. You were mostly just sounding like, "Gee, I favor the left, so obviously the Democrats are the only good presidents lately, and only a moron would say Carter, so... Clinton and Obama yay!"
Reagan is also the father of our current economic situation of essentially gilded age 2.0, so I think that can be counted against him. Just because the propaganda machine hails him as awesome doesn't mean that he was actually the best. I'd label Reagan as one of the worst Presidents of the last century.
Worst in the last century I find that hard to believe when Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon are in the mix...
Nixon, obviously, did some very shady stuff and is by no means near the top of the list. And keeping us in Vietnam for political reasons is terrible. But I typically value economics the most, and Reagan is who screwed those up the most.
I understand Carter was a bit too idealistic, and had a rough time in his administration, but I don't see how someone labels him as "worst".
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
I've asked you and others to make an argument for a better president in the last three decades than Clinton. So far no one has done so. You're saying that Clinton isn't the best. If he isn't, then which president is?
first of all this isn't your thread so *** you
second of all it's not a thread about ranking presidents so up yours.
third I would rank them
Reagan
GHWB
Clinton
GWB
obama
carter
maybe you are too young to remember the berlin wall coming down, the end of the cold war, the end of gas lines, the end of fear of nuclear war. maybe you missed the chance to see what real leadership looks like. perhaps you believe clinton was great because you heard it so often.
but I think he sucked.
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I don't know ranking presidents seems almost as pointless as handicapping republican candidates !
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*** it let's rank the best president of the 1800's while we are at it !
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
I've asked you and others to make an argument for a better president in the last three decades than Clinton. So far no one has done so. You're saying that Clinton isn't the best. If he isn't, then which president is?
first of all this isn't your thread so *** you
second of all it's not a thread about ranking presidents so up yours.
third I would rank them
Reagan
GHWB
Clinton
GWB
obama
carter
maybe you are too young to remember the berlin wall coming down, the end of the cold war, the end of gas lines, the end of fear of nuclear war. maybe you missed the chance to see what real leadership looks like. perhaps you believe clinton was great because you heard it so often.
but I think he sucked.
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/01/22/why-neither-reagan-nor-the-united-states-won-the-cold-war-2
"Yet conservatives frequently trumpet the virtues of tough talk.
Neocons especially point to Reagan saying, "Tear down this wall," as if that kind of rhetoric is effective. That speech was made in 1987, but the wall didn't come down until years later after the first President Bush refused to make aggressive statements about Gorbachev, who was then able to quietly withdraw support from Eastern Europe that led to the end of the Berlin Wall. The neocons simply misrepresented what happened and claimed that Reagan had followed their approach in dealing with the Soviet Union. The only shreds of evidence to support it are snippets of political rhetoric taken out of context."
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We can all live in the past. This thread proves it ! You know what George Washington probably never chopped down a cherry tree either. But *** him he was a lousy president !
Obama didn't end racism either but you wouldn't know that by his election !
Obama didn't end racism either but you wouldn't know that by his election !
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fonewear said: »
*** it let's rank the best president of the 1800's while we are at it !
We all know Andrew Jackson is the best in the 1800s....
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
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I was going to say James Monroe !
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
The Berlin Wall came down because of decades of build up, not Reagan giving a speech two years prior to it coming down.
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
The Berlin Wall came down because of decades of build up, not Reagan giving a speech two years prior to it coming down.
Are you going to say that the buildup was equally over time, or will you finally admit that a lot of political pressure in the 1980s by the Reagan Administration help lead to the fall of the Berlin Wall?
Or will you continue to put your head in the sand, pretending that it never happened except by magic?
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
The Berlin Wall came down because of decades of build up, not Reagan giving a speech two years prior to it coming down.
Are you going to say that the buildup was equally over time, or will you finally admit that a lot of political pressure in the 1980s by the Reagan Administration help lead to the fall of the Berlin Wall?
Or will you continue to put your head in the sand, pretending that it never happened except by magic?
The Soviet Union was crumbling before Reagan was even in office. His moves hastened some aspects of the fall and delayed some. The soviet defeat in Afghanistan, stagnant growth (near negative growth) and severe loss of public confidence (also hastened by failures in the propaganda machine) are well known since the iron curtain came down. If you read any of the investigations of the internal issues within the Soviet Union and don't just take the Republican mantra hook, line, and sinker, you'd have a much different opinion of that era and Reagan's place in it.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
The Berlin Wall came down because of decades of build up, not Reagan giving a speech two years prior to it coming down.
Are you going to say that the buildup was equally over time, or will you finally admit that a lot of political pressure in the 1980s by the Reagan Administration help lead to the fall of the Berlin Wall?
Or will you continue to put your head in the sand, pretending that it never happened except by magic?
The interview I linked above is with the Ambassador to Russia/USSR from during the Reagan administration. And he flat out states Reagan wasn't the main cause by any means and thinking so is propaganda from the right. I'm not sure there's a more definitive source than that.
Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
The Berlin Wall came down because of decades of build up, not Reagan giving a speech two years prior to it coming down.
Are you going to say that the buildup was equally over time, or will you finally admit that a lot of political pressure in the 1980s by the Reagan Administration help lead to the fall of the Berlin Wall?
Or will you continue to put your head in the sand, pretending that it never happened except by magic?
The Soviet Union was crumbling before Reagan was even in office. His moves hastened some aspects of the fall and delayed some. The soviet defeat in Afghanistan, stagnant growth (near negative growth) and severe loss of public confidence (also hastened by failures in the propaganda machine) are well known since the iron curtain came down. If you read any of the investigations of the internal issues within the Soviet Union and don't just take the Republican mantra hook, line, and sinker, you'd have a much different opinion of that era and Reagan's place in it.
Good thing Obummer wasn't in office when Reagan was. He would've negotiated with the Russians and given them everything they ever wanted and paid to re-build the Berlin wall.
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Reagan didn't end the cold war. The wall didn't even come down until after Reagan was out of office. You might want to re-check your history, because you are remembering things that never happened as you think they did.
Maybe you should be the one who needs to recheck their history, or at the very least take a history class....
The Berlin Wall came down because of decades of build up, not Reagan giving a speech two years prior to it coming down.
Are you going to say that the buildup was equally over time, or will you finally admit that a lot of political pressure in the 1980s by the Reagan Administration help lead to the fall of the Berlin Wall?
Or will you continue to put your head in the sand, pretending that it never happened except by magic?
The interview I linked above is with the Ambassador to Russia/USSR from during the Reagan administration. And he flat out states Reagan wasn't the main cause by any means and thinking so is propaganda from the right. I'm not sure there's a more definitive source than that.
Odin.Jassik said: »
The Soviet Union was crumbling before Reagan was even in office. His moves hastened some aspects of the fall and delayed some. The soviet defeat in Afghanistan, stagnant growth (near negative growth) and severe loss of public confidence (also hastened by failures in the propaganda machine) are well known since the iron curtain came down. If you read any of the investigations of the internal issues within the Soviet Union and don't just take the Republican mantra hook, line, and sinker, you'd have a much different opinion of that era and Reagan's place in it.
I'm not saying that Reagan is the sole cause of the fall of the Berlin Wall, but to outright dismiss his actions because it didn't happen during his term is ludicrous at best. Which is ladyofhonor's assertion....
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I'm not saying that Reagan is the sole cause of the fall of the Berlin Wall, but to outright dismiss his actions because it didn't happen during his term is ludicrous at best. Which is ladyofhonor's assertion....
Well, first off, the USSR was a union of sovereign states, not a republic like the USA. Those countries existed independently from around 800AD. The USSR wasn't a 50 year old country, it was a fairly shakey economic union of independent states that had been fighting each other for centuries. Their socioeconomic issues began before the USSR was even formed and much of the fall can be blamed on WWII. Internal documents examined after the fall of the iron curtain show they were quelling rebellions and attempting to hide civil unrest all over the union as early as the mid 40's. Kennedy's handling of the Cuban Missile crisis was the first sign of cracks in their armor, the exodus of scientists in the 60's also had a big impact. Once their space program started to fail and their national heroes started inciting sedition, nationalism gave way to mistrust. The fall was inevitable before Reagan took office. He hastened it to an extent, but a few speeches and sanctions were analogous to the kid that runs up and kicks a bully after he's already been knocked down.
Reagan was successful in a lot of ways, the fall of the Soviet Union just wasn't something he had a large role in.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Good thing Obummer wasn't in office when Reagan was. He would've negotiated with the Russians and given them everything they ever wanted and paid to re-build the Berlin wall.
Reagan could have given them a dozen Saturn 5 rockets and half the US military and it would have only extended the USSR by a few decades. Do-nothing Obama would have only had to take a nap and the Soviets would have fallen.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Why would unemployed people not look for a job..what do they do?
They go on disability, which is coincidentally what the deadbeats among us have been doing when they run out of unemployment. We have the safest workplaces in recorded history but record number of disabled people.
In other news the social security disability fund is about to run dry. I mean of course if those mean hearted republicans stay all mean spirited and all.
Odin.Jassik said: »
Reagan could have given them a dozen Saturn 5 rockets and half the US military and it would have only extended the USSR by a few decades. Do-nothing Obama would have only had to take a nap and the Soviets would have fallen.
What point are you really making?
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Why would unemployed people not look for a job..what do they do?
They go on disability, which is coincidentally what the deadbeats among us have been doing when they run out of unemployment. We have the safest workplaces in recorded history but record number of disabled people.
In other news the social security disability fund is about to run dry. I mean of course if those mean hearted republicans stay all mean spirited and all.
Would love to know how these people are getting on disability. My legitimately disabled girlfriend is years into the process and still at least a few months off seeing a judge about approval.
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Why would unemployed people not look for a job..what do they do?
They go on disability, which is coincidentally what the deadbeats among us have been doing when they run out of unemployment. We have the safest workplaces in recorded history but record number of disabled people.
In other news the social security disability fund is about to run dry. I mean of course if those mean hearted republicans stay all mean spirited and all.
Would love to know how these people are getting on disability. My legitimately disabled girlfriend is years into the process and still at least a few months off seeing a judge about approval.
Back pain, migraine headaches, shifty doctors, and of course a progressive bureaucracy that seeks complete and utter dependence.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Reagan could have given them a dozen Saturn 5 rockets and half the US military and it would have only extended the USSR by a few decades. Do-nothing Obama would have only had to take a nap and the Soviets would have fallen.
What point are you really making?
only slightly older than a few decades is now 6+ decades... The point I made, if you bothered to read it, was that no US president could have slowed the fall of the USSR significantly under basically any circumstances. What point are you making?
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Reagan could have given them a dozen Saturn 5 rockets and half the US military and it would have only extended the USSR by a few decades. Do-nothing Obama would have only had to take a nap and the Soviets would have fallen.
What point are you really making?
only slightly older than a few decades is now 6+ decades... The point I made, if you bothered to read it, was that no US president could have slowed the fall of the USSR significantly under basically any circumstances. What point are you making?
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Reagan could have given them a dozen Saturn 5 rockets and half the US military and it would have only extended the USSR by a few decades. Do-nothing Obama would have only had to take a nap and the Soviets would have fallen.
What point are you really making?
only slightly older than a few decades is now 6+ decades... The point I made, if you bothered to read it, was that no US president could have slowed the fall of the USSR significantly under basically any circumstances. What point are you making?
I was being facetious... The point was that nothing would have kept the USSR from falling apart. Don't you recognize the hyperbolic nature of saying "half the US military and a dozen saturn 5 rockets"?
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