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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 12:41:23  
fonewear said: »
Why do people care if someone is racist ? That question to me is more intriguing. Like is it your sole mission in life to end racism ? Aren't there more important things in life (family friends etc) than to be a social justice warrior ?

In most cases, yeah. But, it is the duty of citizens to root out injustice in their lives, especially when the manifestation is the unnecessary and unbalanced imprisonment or death of minorities at the hands of the people who are supposed to represent justice.
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-08-17 12:48:39  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Slander or libel do not cover enough the damage that being called a racist does to someone in America. The damage does is incalculable it is so large and beyond just financial damage.

It can apply to people in the public eye because it would not be slander. The injury done to someone by calling them a racist is worse than doing physical damage to someone. It is not legal to physically harm someone in the public eye.

False claims of racism are worthy of a new law.

I hear a lot more racist statements than I hear people calling them racist. But, you're so focused on false accusations, you realize that half the Republican party would be in deep ***over the stuff they've said about Obama that is objectively false, right?

I am talking specifically about making false accusations of racism against individuals. I am not going to get into some vague argument where you imply half of Republicans are racists, there are no racist Democrats and Democrats always tell the truth.

I didn't say anything about racism, I'm taking about slander. You want a law that makes it illegal to falsely accuse someone of racism. How would you quantify a false accusation? Look at the cop that shot the kid in Ferguson. He made statements about black families while discounting that his own messed up childhood had any effect on him. Would you persecute people who called him racist? Does someone have to use a racial slur to be racist? What about preferential racism? What penalty would you assign to the crime?


Dear Jassik,

Hi.

I understand 100% that you disagree with my opinion that false claims of racism should be against both a criminal and civil law. I believe that using accusations of racism does real, actual damage to individuals and organizations, many times unfairly and unjustifiably. I believe it is also unhealthy for a Republic when it is used as a political weapon. You are free to support the use of such disgusting tactics. I will not try to change your mind.

Sincerely,
Aman AKA: The Razzle Dazzle of Rabao
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 12:54:03  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Slander or libel do not cover enough the damage that being called a racist does to someone in America. The damage does is incalculable it is so large and beyond just financial damage.

It can apply to people in the public eye because it would not be slander. The injury done to someone by calling them a racist is worse than doing physical damage to someone. It is not legal to physically harm someone in the public eye.

False claims of racism are worthy of a new law.

I hear a lot more racist statements than I hear people calling them racist. But, you're so focused on false accusations, you realize that half the Republican party would be in deep ***over the stuff they've said about Obama that is objectively false, right?

I am talking specifically about making false accusations of racism against individuals. I am not going to get into some vague argument where you imply half of Republicans are racists, there are no racist Democrats and Democrats always tell the truth.

I didn't say anything about racism, I'm taking about slander. You want a law that makes it illegal to falsely accuse someone of racism. How would you quantify a false accusation? Look at the cop that shot the kid in Ferguson. He made statements about black families while discounting that his own messed up childhood had any effect on him. Would you persecute people who called him racist? Does someone have to use a racial slur to be racist? What about preferential racism? What penalty would you assign to the crime?


Dear Jassik,

Hi.

I understand 100% that you disagree with my opinion that false claims of racism should be against both a criminal and civil law. I believe that using accusations of racism does real, actual damage to individuals and organizations, many times unfairly and unjustifiably. I believe it is also unhealthy for a Republic when it is used as a political weapon. You are free to support the use of such disgusting tactics. I will not try to change your mind.

Sincerely,
Aman AKA: The Razzle Dazzle of Rabao

Your idea has a lot of very big holes that you either can't it won't address. I don't 100% agree or disagree with anything, but you have a chance to sell me on the idea and you don't seem to want to.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-08-17 12:57:59  
Dear Jassik.

Hi.

Like any other good law, the specifics would debated in order to make it rock solid and constitutional. You are correct in that I do not want to sell you on the idea. Your opinion on any matter lost all of it's value to me a long time ago.

Sincerely,
Aman AKA. The Sultan of Stun
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:05:44  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Dear Jassik.

Hi.

Like any other good law, the specifics would debated in order to make it rock solid and constitutional. You are correct in that I do not want to sell you on the idea. Your opinion on any matter lost all of it's value to me a long time ago.

Sincerely,
Aman AKA. The Sultan of Stun

Sounds more like a knee jerk reaction to being called out for your own racial bias, but I couldn't care less. We don't need more superfluous lawsuits and laws designed to protect bigotry.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-17 13:18:26  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Dear Jassik.

Hi.

Like any other good law, the specifics would debated in order to make it rock solid and constitutional. You are correct in that I do not want to sell you on the idea. Your opinion on any matter lost all of it's value to me a long time ago.

Sincerely,
Aman AKA. The Sultan of Stun

Sounds more like a knee jerk reaction to being called out for your own racial bias, but I couldn't care less. We don't need more superfluous lawsuits and laws designed to protect bigotry.
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-17 13:25:07  
Oops. I thought we were in RT talking politics haha...
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-08-17 13:27:17  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Dear Jassik.

Hi.

Like any other good law, the specifics would debated in order to make it rock solid and constitutional. You are correct in that I do not want to sell you on the idea. Your opinion on any matter lost all of it's value to me a long time ago.

Sincerely,
Aman AKA. The Sultan of Stun

Sounds more like a knee jerk reaction to being called out for your own racial bias, but I couldn't care less. We don't need more superfluous lawsuits and laws designed to protect bigotry.


Dear Moderator,

Is it appropriate for a forum member, Jassik in this case, to insinuate that another forum member, me in this case, is a racist? I believe this kind of hateful rhetoric has been repeatedly addressed.

Sincerley,
Aman AKA: The Saturday Night Delight
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:30:51  
LOL...
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By Drama Torama 2015-08-17 13:34:25  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Dear Moderator,

Is it appropriate for a forum member, Jassik in this case, to insinuate that another forum member, me in this case, is a racist? I believe this kind of hateful rhetoric has been repeatedly addressed.

Sincerley,
Aman AKA: The Saturday Night Delight

That's "Dear Admin", thanks. I didn't spend all that time in Admin school to be called "Moderator".

And he doesn't say that, at least that's not how I read it. He's suggesting that the reason you want laws around it is that you've been accused of it (fairly OR unfairly). I assumed that was the reason for describing it as "knee-jerk", anyway, as a reaction to something that happened.

For what it's worth, I think we'd be better off fixing the existing defamation/slander/libel laws, if they are problematic in some way, than adding yet more laws for people to use as cudgels in the courts.

Regards,
Drama Torama
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-17 13:36:03  
Please don't get topic banned guys :(
Provoking the mods will not end well!
I enjoy your banter when it is good natured, it gives me lulz. So just be careful. mkay?
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:43:11  
Drama Torama said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Dear Moderator,

Is it appropriate for a forum member, Jassik in this case, to insinuate that another forum member, me in this case, is a racist? I believe this kind of hateful rhetoric has been repeatedly addressed.

Sincerley,
Aman AKA: The Saturday Night Delight

That's "Dear Admin", thanks. I didn't spend all that time in Admin school to be called "Moderator".

And he doesn't say that, at least that's not how I read it. He's suggesting that the reason you want laws around it is that you've been accused of it (fairly OR unfairly). I assumed that was the reason for describing it as "knee-jerk", anyway, as a reaction to something that happened.

For what it's worth, I think we'd be better off fixing the existing defamation/slander/libel laws, if they are problematic in some way, than adding yet more laws for people to use as cudgels in the courts.

Regards,
Drama Torama

Meh, if you were a little hypersensitive to being called racist, I can see how you would take it that way. For the record, I specifically said racial bias and not racism.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-17 13:47:23  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Slander or libel do not cover enough the damage that being called a racist does to someone in America. The damage does is incalculable it is so large and beyond just financial damage.

It can apply to people in the public eye because it would not be slander. The injury done to someone by calling them a racist is worse than doing physical damage to someone. It is not legal to physically harm someone in the public eye.

False claims of racism are worthy of a new law.

I hear a lot more racist statements than I hear people calling them racist. But, you're so focused on false accusations, you realize that half the Republican party would be in deep ***over the stuff they've said about Obama that is objectively false, right?

I am talking specifically about making false accusations of racism against individuals. I am not going to get into some vague argument where you imply half of Republicans are racists, there are no racist Democrats and Democrats always tell the truth.
While false accusation of being a racist are a problem, there's a far more bigger problem socially and definitely financially of labeling someone as a sex offender (false accusations). That lasts for life.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-17 13:50:05  
Drama Torama said: »
I didn't spend all that time in Admin school to be called "Moderator".
I didn't know there was FFXIAH Admin school.

Do you have to have an undergraduate course in moderation first?
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:53:23  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Slander or libel do not cover enough the damage that being called a racist does to someone in America. The damage does is incalculable it is so large and beyond just financial damage.

It can apply to people in the public eye because it would not be slander. The injury done to someone by calling them a racist is worse than doing physical damage to someone. It is not legal to physically harm someone in the public eye.

False claims of racism are worthy of a new law.

I hear a lot more racist statements than I hear people calling them racist. But, you're so focused on false accusations, you realize that half the Republican party would be in deep ***over the stuff they've said about Obama that is objectively false, right?

I am talking specifically about making false accusations of racism against individuals. I am not going to get into some vague argument where you imply half of Republicans are racists, there are no racist Democrats and Democrats always tell the truth.
While false accusation of being a racist are a problem, there's a far more bigger problem socially and definitely financially of labeling someone as a sex offender (false accusations). That lasts for life.

A lot of that is the connotation that a person who is a sex offender is a pervert who will attack without restraint. A lot of the people who have been forced to register were 18 or 19 and sleeping with a long time partner who was 17 or, my personal pet peeve, forced to register for peeing behind a dumpster in an alley. I knew a guy who was on the list for having sex with his wife in their car that was parked a few blocks from a middle school.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-17 20:48:18  
Drama Torama said: »
It's ridiculous that I have to remind people of this, but reporting things because you disagree with them is a surefire path to losing access to the report button. Save it for the actual attacks and harassment.
You know you get the point across when you get reported for hurt feels!

...oh wait a minut......
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-08-18 21:17:21  
Wonkette on the latest polls:

Republicans Want Trump, And If Not Him, Then Maybe Trump Would Do
My snarky comments in ()s.

Quote:
How much do Republican primary voters love Donald Trump? So much that he didn’t only lead the latest CNN/ORC poll, released Tuesday — the Walking Headcase also led the list of respondents’ second choice for president as well. (!!!) Then again, maybe the results would be different if CNN were polling regular people instead of Orcs. (Elves and Wizards are definitely for Bernie Sanders, while the top response among Hobbits is “Can’t talk now, eating.”)

Quote:
The poll found Trump had 24 percent of support among
registered Republicans and Republican-leaning independents. In addition, he also led his GOP rivals as the second choice of those voters with 14 percent.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush was trailing as the first choice for President at 13 percent. No other candidates polled at double digits.
Quote:
It kind of looks like no matter what ***comes out of the man’s mouth, there’s simply nothing that can get Donald Trump’s support among Republican primary voters to drop. Or to increase much past 25 percent, either, which might have some long-term implications.

The also-mentioned candidates include Ben Carson (9 percent), and Marco Rubio and Scott Walker “tied” at 8 percent, as if polling at this stage in the election cycle meant anything at all, which it (almost) does not.

The poll also found that respondents considered Trump the best-qualified candidate to handle “ISIS, illegal immigration, the economy and social issues such as abortion and gay marriage,” (LOL) which suggests that at this point, people are simply barking “Trump! Trump, Trump, TRUMP!” at anything a pollster asks. The New York real estate developer was also named Americans’ favorite flavor of ice cream, most likely to win the World Series, and preferred method of contraception( can believe that last one).

Deep in the nitty-gritty kitty ditties of the poll, however, lurks a statistical detail that may be worth calling some attention to. That would be the answer to this question, asked of all respondents, not only Republicans:
Quote:
We’d like to get your overall opinion of some people in the news. As I read each name, please say if you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of these people — or if you have never heard of them.
(Please note the identified the poll's weak point. And it isn't underrepresented orcs.)
Donald Trump gets a 35 percent “favorable” rating. Also, too, his “negative” rating is 59 percent — the highest of all the candidates. But there’s almost nobody who hasn’t heard of him: a measly 1 percent, compared to 6 percent for “Jeb Bush” or 37 percent for “Scott Walker.” (Poor Walker — like John Kasich and Carly Fiorina, his “never heard of” percentage is higher than either his positive or negative ratings.) So while Republicans love Trump, there’s a pretty significant portion of Americans who still can’t stand the man.

Maybe he needs to be on TV more, so people can get to know him.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-18 23:23:07  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Wonkette on the latest polls
Aren't you supposed to keep the crazy articles in your own thread? Why are you shitting up this one with that?
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-08-19 09:32:47  
Go back and read my original post in that thread again.

And while there is much snark in that article, its reportage is still accurate.

Edit: I have read several other pieces generated by the same poll. This is the only one that mentioned a second place choice.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-08-19 11:09:54  
fonewear said: »
Why do people care if someone is racist ? That question to me is more intriguing. Like is it your sole mission in life to end racism ? Aren't there more important things in life (family friends etc) than to be a social justice warrior ?

Spoken like someone who has never been discriminated against by people with actual power. No, I don't mean some smallfolk who call you names, I mean people with actual ability to deny you access to *stuff*

Cause thats the problem at the end of the day you know. Racists getting elected to power, running businesses with power or influencing legislation in a way that benefits one and denies the others.
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 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-08-19 11:27:11  
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/19/politics/2016-poll-hillary-clinton-joe-biden-bernie-sanders/index.html

Trump is picking up steam for the general election. Huh.
 
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-19 11:34:30  
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Less than 16 months to gain about 7 more points. Seems like plenty of time or an eternity depending how you look at it.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-19 11:36:44  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
its reportage is still accurate.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-08-19 11:38:07  
God I hope this is all that season of Dallas where Pam is dreaming and it turns out I'm Bobby Euwing takin' a shower.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-19 11:38:54  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
God I hope this is all that season of Dallas where Pam is dreaming and it turns out I'm Bobby Euwing takin' a shower.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-19 15:11:04  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Less than 16 months to gain about 7 more points. Seems like plenty of time or an eternity depending how you look at it.

And they're going to have to drag Hillary out kicking and screaming. The real question will be will the establishment ever know what really hit them?
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 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-08-19 15:50:44  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Less than 16 months to gain about 7 more points. Seems like plenty of time or an eternity depending how you look at it.

And they're going to have to drag Hillary out kicking and screaming. The real question will be will the establishment ever know what really hit them?

Assuming a diverse voter turnout like in 2008 and 2012, Trump will have his work cut out for him. That poll shows him doing well with men and whites. Trump will lose women and Hispanics by a large margin, larger than Romney for sure. He will also lose blacks. You have to consider Hillary still as the reasonable favorite.

Still, nothing is impossible. I'm shocked to say this but he looks like he really is the favorite to win the GOP nomination. I thought about this and arrived at a conclusion- in a contest where being the alpha male is so highly prized, Trump is making the rest of the GOP field look weak. You cannot scream louder than him. You cannot be as grandiose as him. The media is drawn to him; he gets the most coverage by far. A guy like Chris Christie, who is supposed to be a tough guy, looks timid next to Donald Trump. Jeb Bush is a milquetoast, and Rubio is a child. And Trump's wealth is on the same playing field as the major Republican backers. You can't buy him, and you don't bribe him with a Fox pundit job or any other trifles- he's already a major celebrity and has been for over three decades.

Hillary doesn't have Bill or Barack's gigawatt charisma. She's a master of double-speak and say-nothing. Trump is more charismatic and possibly more likeable. He's certainly far more plain-spoken. It's not impossible for him to win. And he was a Democrat for a long time. Perhaps he could reach across the aisle on certain issues?
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-08-19 16:18:03  
Candidates In Donald Trump’s Position Have A Terrible Track Record
Donald Trump Is Winning The Polls — And Losing The Nomination
Another perspective to consider. I found them interesting, at least.
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-08-19 16:31:32  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »

Yeah, it's possible in such a large field that Donald Trump has hit his peak, and as other candidates drop out, their supporters will go to Bush or Walker. But consider this- if Trump continues to poll well against Hillary, many Republicans might consider him their best shot to topple her in the general election. So Trump may end up with other candidates' supporters too.

It's going to get interesting. And terrible. I think that the other GOP candidates are going to have to start getting crazier. And look, they have- I read today that they are attacking the 14th Amendment. Wow. Yuck.
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