Are Men Going Their Own Way? (MGTOW)

Sorry guys, we're not allowed to notice how unfair modern marriage is for men. Only mysoginists do such things.

I was part of a custody disput where the father admitted in court to abuse of a child under his care. The judge still ordered joint custody. When one of the children called 911 on a visit the judge still required joint custody. It was only after the mother agreed to drop any current or future charges against her husband from incidents that occured during the marriage and the father gave up the right to contact the children until after high school graduation. Only because a private settlement was reached was joint custody taken off the table.

Family court judges have a large amount of power when deciding how a case will go. Most of the time it is more about "keeping the family together" than what is in the best interests of the children.

Look at court cases where biological parents give up children for adoption, but then change their minds years later. They are more likely to get custody than the adopted parents who have cared and raised those kids.

What an interesting topic to come across. I don't actually feel like contributing, but...

I do wish you right-wing folks would get this *** out of your system already. A quick glance through this thread shows a remarkably balanced spread of opinions and uses of the [+] key. Nailing yourself to the cross and screaming "Martyr!" is what those filthy liberals are supposed to do, right? It's certainly what the third-wave feminists you guys are railing against do.

In some cases, sure, in some no. It's not misogynistic to point out inequalities against men, there are plenty. It's just that you're only focusing on a handful of biases and using them to claim there is some massive oppression of men in modern society, which there just isn't. Even more, why would one injustice be justification for another?

I've heard of cases like those, it's really sad that family court judges are given so much authority over that structure with so little recourse allowed. Family court has to be one of the only places in our judicial system where so much discretion is given to a singular justice with such large stakes.

This, pretty much, to a T. Such judicial abuses are far too frequent.

I don't claim society is massively oppressive against men. Just that marriage is a raw deal for men. In the same respect, society isn't massively oppressive towards women either.

Marriage is just a contract made in good faith between two parties. I get that men often stand to lose more, but that's the nature of the gender roles social conservatives are promoting. If you want equality in the courts, you're going to have to give up some inequality outside of them.

You seriously, seriously need to learn that human beings are, by default, not rational. Humans are not rational animals. They are, at best, rationalizing animals. If human beings were rational we wouldn't be in any of the messes we're in today, and religion wouldn't have existed for a long time.

How do you figure that? Marriage has gotten increasingly worse for men as a direct result of the rise of oppressive feminism.

And no, you don't understand it. If marriage was a contract made in good faith between two parties under the gender roles "social conservatives" are promoting, then neither party would start to lose more than the other.

The modern conception of marriage, pushed by social "progressives" is complete and utter *** wherein a man exists only to fulfill the financial whims of a woman.

As I said before, the modern marriage systems of alimony, child support, and no fault divorce are nothing but a system of wealth transfer from men to women.

Then just don't get married, if you're so against it?

At the moment I have no plans to get married.

Does that mean we can't talk about it?

Wait, the modern progressive image of marriage is simply wealth transfer?

Hold the phone, I'm consulting my Leave It To Beaver DVDs where women were encouraged to stay home, look pretty, rear children while breadwinner McFedora brought home the sweet loot. Which is then transfered to our pretty blonde who buys and does everything while breadwinner kicks up his feet and has a smoke.

Social conservatives want strict roles. Man is breadwinner, woman runs support. That by nature facilitates wealth transfer because it posits women are weak and need 'dat male support to make it. Well that and men aren't smart, inclined or have the aptitude to raise children.

Which tends to rub me the wrong way considering my grandfather raised all 6 of his kids. Alone. In the heart of the 'social conservative' 1940s.

No, that's the modern progressive image of tax reform.

It's always about taxes with you. Pay mine if you like them so much!

No thanks, as much as the US tax code is screwed up, Italian code is even worse.

In the vein of my 'responsible' hawks around here:

Pick better women. Stop being such a victim. Pull those bootstraps up and quit whining.

First, social conservatives don't advocate women don't work. Secondly, being a member of a team doesn't ever mean you're weak. Even in FF, people duo box because having two roles together against NMs yields better results than going it solo.

Alimony, child support, asset division are certainly systems of wealth transfer (predominantly from men to women).

That's just false... feminism in general has nothing to do with marriage "getting worse for men".

As for alimony, child support and custoday... that has more to do with the way the family dynamic was set up in the past... When people got married the woman generally stayed home, cleaned up and took care of the kids while the man went out and worked. Therefore the woman spent the most time around the children as their general caretaker. The woman also usually gave up employment or was thought not to seek it while married so she could take care of these duties in the family unit. therefore there was a type of societal agreement that each person fulfilled a certain role and thats why court awards became like they did. Women spent more time raising and caring for the children and were around where as the man spent more time away from the home and was the usually the sole provider in the family...

I still think many of you base way too much of this on the television that you watch rather than the actual reality of it all.


Edit: things will change as they have already started to do but as usual the legal system is years behind where it needs to be.

Oh snap!

I said run support. As in women by nature should be subservient to their men. I've heard enough religious / ego justification for it to know. Doesn't mean they don't work, they should just know who's in charge around here. Man #1, Woman #2.

With that mentality in hand, the woman is always weaker than the man. Her realm is offspring, the home and the maintenance therein. This has then been codified into laws and judgement we make about the genders in society. Very strict ones in social conservative land with little room for flexibility.

Spoilers: It's why we give men grief for doing things like spending *too* much time with their kids or attending 'female' things like PTA meetings, day care meetings and other things 'real men' shouldn't do. You should feed your kids but *** if you laugh or cry with them.

Ideas have consequences. In this case it means woman > man with regards to child support and the nasty lagging idea that men can't raise children. Not as good as a woman could anyway. It also led to an entire generation of absent, distant fathers who never were 'allowed' to show their love for their kids.

Feeds alot of therapists to this day.

As for your alimony bit? Same ***. Women need male support so be prepared to shell out if the marriage fails because that's the nature of women. They need help. At every turn.

I advocate this all over the place, as you've said too in this thread.

Learn to pick better mates. Men and women both. Don't just marry the first thing that meets the criteria of "pretty/handsome" and "willing to marry you".

That is a good way to end up heartbroken and short of resources.

And possibly to birth a little monster that thinks like your now-maligned ex-mate.

Aww yiss, watch out men we're coming for your dollars!!

HANDS OFF MY WALLET FEMALE SCUM. BACK TO THE VAGINAL MAW THAT SPAWNED THEE.

Goes along great with your picture.

I'm trying to remember the movie where a guy is having sex with a chick and then her vagina bites his *** off as he screams in agony.

It's like an introduction video for these men's rights organizations.