The Real Cost Of Low Wages

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2010-06-21
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The real cost of low wages
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 16:43:42  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Actually liberal polices are what causes entities to become bankrupt.
Although I'm sure you're letting your anus speak on your behalf as usual...

What the hell are you talking about? I mean in context. The closest we've come to talking about bankruptcy is someone living hand-to-mouth (paycheck-to-paycheck, whichever you prefer) getting screwed by a bad roommate. There's nothing liberal or conservative about that story.

Additionally, what kind of drugs do I need to take to correlate liberal policies (I assume you mean economic policies?) with bankruptcy? What, bankruptcy as a concept didn't exist until FDR made it up? Bad business decisions, market crashes, natural disasters, wars, obsolescence, competition... any number of things can cause bankruptcy and neither liberal nor conservative economic policy can be blamed generally. A specific liberal or conservative policy might contribute to a specific failure... or it might not.

There's a pristine town in rural Canada. It was built in 1979 and abandoned in 1981 after residents had lived there just 18 months. The company that owned and built the town paid everyone to GTFO. It had been built around a molybdenum mine and refining operation just before the price of molybdenum crashed... so clearly Obama's fault, right?

As for the insolvency of Social Security... there couldn't be anything like the deliberate dismantling of the entire system by conservative politicians looking to reduce the tax payment of their biggest contributors involved in that, could there?

I'd love to figure out who first sold Americans on the idea that taxes are evil. Paying taxes is patriotic, unless you seriously expect the most hugely funded military in the world to hold bake sales every time they need a new shipment of flak jackets. The reason for the War for American Independence was a.) lack of representation in government and b.) the fleecing of literally every American. Had the Crown had its way, the US could easily have wound up living on 10 lbs. of potatoes a day and shipping all its meat and grain to Britain. Y'know, like what happened in Ireland and why the potato blight killed millions.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 16:49:55  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Nearly 50% of Americans pay no income tax. Let that soak up too while you are at it.
I'm 99% sure that's false, but I'll offer you the opportunity to demonstrate how I'm wrong.

I do know that a large number of citizens get a refund of their taxes paid. I pay my taxes on every single paycheck, however. I get a refund once a year. What is that money, however much or little it may be, doing in the intervening months? I cannot imagine the government puts it all under a big mattress until I politely ask for it back some time in February.

I've seen too many stories of people who managed to filter off fractions of a penny from financial transactions or who invested money that was in holding between payment and deposit for brief periods and consequently generated a considerable sum. The billions the federal government gets cannot possibly be sitting idle, that'd be nuts.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 16:55:05  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I'm 99% sure that's false, but I'll offer you the opportunity to demonstrate how I'm wrong.
Covered it in the last "Minimum Wage" thread.

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I've seen too many stories of people who managed to filter off fractions of a penny from financial transactions or who invested money that was in holding between payment and deposit for brief periods and consequently generated a considerable sum. The billions the federal government gets cannot possibly be sitting idle, that'd be nuts.
That's the basis of the movie "Office Space" and is not correct. Computer rounding erases such things.
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By fonewear 2015-04-22 16:56:28  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I'm 99% sure that's false, but I'll offer you the opportunity to demonstrate how I'm wrong.
Covered it in the last "Minimum Wage" thread.

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I've seen too many stories of people who managed to filter off fractions of a penny from financial transactions or who invested money that was in holding between payment and deposit for brief periods and consequently generated a considerable sum. The billions the federal government gets cannot possibly be sitting idle, that'd be nuts.
That's the basis of the movie "Office Space" and is not correct. Computer rounding erases such things.

Just don't forget to move the decimal to the right place !
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 17:03:00  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Although I'm sure you're letting your anus speak on your behalf as usual...
Stop thinking about my anus, yo.
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By fonewear 2015-04-22 17:05:13  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Although I'm sure you're letting your anus speak on your behalf as usual...
Stop thinking about my anus, yo.

Perfect porn title !
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By fonewear 2015-04-22 17:08:16  
Speaking of wages: etc

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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 17:31:55  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I'm 99% sure that's false, but I'll offer you the opportunity to demonstrate how I'm wrong.
Covered it in the last "Minimum Wage" thread.
Didn't read a word I wrote, did you?

Let's pretend I got a $1,000 tax refund this year (and I mean straight refund, no credits or whatever). What was that $1,000 doing over the past ~14 months while accruing in 25 convenient increments of $40? I've been asking this question of people who tell me that I don't pay income tax for years. If I dumped $20 a week into the shittiest savings account in the country, I'd still have more than $1,000 by Christmas. Not much more, because that's how math works, but when we're talking about billions of dollars...
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 19:09:01  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jetackuu said: »
But let's continue talking about how the poor want free ***, when all they want is the opportunity to keep a roof over their heads, and food on their table, and to be content, it's not really that complicated.
If the poor wants the opportunity to keep a roof over their heads, and food on their table, why don't they work for it? You do know that there are many jobs out there that does not require a 4 year college degree and still makes $50k/year or more (depending on the area). But that's effort, and that's something you condone.
Yes, there's a lot of 50k a year jobs that require no experience/training out there, just like trickle down economics works /sarcasm.

Again with the personal attacks, grow up.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 19:09:42  
EpicFantasy said: »
Jetackuu said: »
when all they want is the opportunity to keep a roof over their heads, and food on their table, and to be content, it's not really that complicated.

Exactly my point thank you.

This administration has proven it is doing the exact total opposite to foster this kind of goal.

Buy hey it's not obamas fault not doing anything to help the american middle class, screwing the poor, and taking money from the rich to fund his campaign.
Citation needed, and the administration has really nothing to do with this.
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-04-22 19:32:06  
Kingnobody said:
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
This is a much less surprising number when you understand that the top 10% of the American economy received just under 50% of all income in 2012, and this is on a steep, progressing incline. This also only factors income claimed.

Source: Piketty & Saez (2003) series updated to 2012 by the IRS.

But yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with America's income distribution when .01% of the population receive 6%, and 10% receives 50% of the income distribution (probably more by this point). Liberals are the ones ruining everything, not consistent deregulation starting in the 70s that has returned the wealthy to Robber Baron status.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 20:37:10  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Kingnobody said:
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
This is a much less surprising number when you understand that the top 10% of the American economy received just under 50% of all income in 2012, and this is on a steep, progressing incline. This also only factors income claimed.

Source: Piketty & Saez (2003) series updated to 2012 by the IRS.

But yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with America's income distribution when .01% of the population receive 6%, and 10% receives 50% of the income distribution (probably more by this point). Liberals are the ones ruining everything, not consistent deregulation starting in the 70s that has returned the wealthy to Robber Baron status.

But we're just perpetrating a class warfare. /sarcasm
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 21:26:05  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I'm 99% sure that's false, but I'll offer you the opportunity to demonstrate how I'm wrong.
Covered it in the last "Minimum Wage" thread.
Didn't read a word I wrote, did you?

Let's pretend I got a $1,000 tax refund this year (and I mean straight refund, no credits or whatever). What was that $1,000 doing over the past ~14 months while accruing in 25 convenient increments of $40? I've been asking this question of people who tell me that I don't pay income tax for years. If I dumped $20 a week into the shittiest savings account in the country, I'd still have more than $1,000 by Christmas. Not much more, because that's how math works, but when we're talking about billions of dollars...
That refund isn't tax or a tax credit, it's an overpayment. Basically, you gave the federal government an interest free short-term loan.

If you were smart, you would have (at the very least) taken your standard withholdings if you were not expected to have any major changes in income. That's why the standard withholding table IRS publishes every year is there for people who's income doesn't fluctuate every year.

Overpayments were not included in that calculation of the study I presented a while back. They were talking about how much refundable tax credits that the lower 50% receive from the government every year. That means they received more money from the government than they paid in all federal taxes per year. Which is the point of the study.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 21:28:05  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Kingnobody said:
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
This is a much less surprising number when you understand that the top 10% of the American economy received just under 50% of all income in 2012, and this is on a steep, progressing incline. This also only factors income claimed.

Source: Piketty & Saez (2003) series updated to 2012 by the IRS.

But yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with America's income distribution when .01% of the population receive 6%, and 10% receives 50% of the income distribution (probably more by this point). Liberals are the ones ruining everything, not consistent deregulation starting in the 70s that has returned the wealthy to Robber Baron status.
Why am I not surprised that you didn't even fully read the study? Well, you didn't even show the source, so I'm guessing you got it from an article that read it from a Berkeley website that quoted the source, but you never really read any of it.

Also, good attempt at a strawman.
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By EpicFantasy 2015-04-22 21:32:15  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
But if millions of people were doing this sort of thing, we'd know. We only have so many people living on government assistance, after all, and even 1,000,000 would be more than enough to raise huge red flags.

Are you insane or just totally out of touch with reality? You say even 1 million would raise red flags... Here are a few numbers for you.

Number of people on Food stamps.
2008... 28 million
2014... 47 million

Number of people on Medicaid.
2008... 44 million
2015... 70 million and rising fast.

Total number of people receiving some type of welfare from the government 110 Million..

So if 1 million would raise red flags what color flag does this raise for you?
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 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-04-22 21:57:14  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Nearly1. 50% of Americans pay no income tax. Let that soak up too while you are at it.
I'm 99% sure that's false, but I'll offer you the opportunity to demonstrate how I'm wrong.

I do know that a large number of citizens get a refund of their taxes paid. I pay my taxes on every single paycheck, however. I get a refund once a year.2. What is that money, however much or little it may be, doing in the intervening months? I cannot imagine the government puts it all under a big mattress until I politely ask for it back some time in February.

I've seen too many stories of people who managed to filter off fractions of a penny from financial transactions or who invested money that was in holding between payment and deposit for brief periods and consequently generated a considerable sum. The billions the federal government gets cannot possibly be sitting idle, that'd be nuts.

1. 50% of Americans pay no income tax.
The big winners of this is big corporations and elderly and young families making under 100,000 a year

2. What is that money, however much or little it may be, doing in the intervening months? I cannot imagine the government puts it all under a big mattress until I politely ask for it back some time in February.

that money the irs took from you goes to the federal reserve which then goes overseas none of it even goes back to America where you would think it would be spent on fixing infrastructure ect. Instead what you receive back from your taxed again income tax return is freshly printed imaginary money from the Federal Reserve. Which adds more to our nations debt by printing that extra money it does not have under your name from a entity that is private and not even Part of the government its employees are not government employees.
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-04-22 22:12:38  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Kingnobody said:
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
This is a much less surprising number when you understand that the top 10% of the American economy received just under 50% of all income in 2012, and this is on a steep, progressing incline. This also only factors income claimed.

Source: Piketty & Saez (2003) series updated to 2012 by the IRS.

But yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with America's income distribution when .01% of the population receive 6%, and 10% receives 50% of the income distribution (probably more by this point). Liberals are the ones ruining everything, not consistent deregulation starting in the 70s that has returned the wealthy to Robber Baron status.
Why am I not surprised that you didn't even fully read the study? Well, you didn't even show the source, so I'm guessing you got it from an article that read it from a Berkeley website that quoted the source, but you never really read any of it.

Also, good attempt at a strawman.
I sourced you just fine. I have a hard copy. If you wanted to dispute the details, you had all the information you needed to find it. That's a really weak excuse for an ad hominem, though. And no, it wasn't a straw man. I never restated your argument in my own terms, but I did draw a parallel between statistical data and a largely conservative approach to economics. It gave context to your abuse of statistical numbers to imply undue gravity.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-23 04:43:26  
EpicFantasy said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
But if millions of people were doing this sort of thing, we'd know. We only have so many people living on government assistance, after all, and even 1,000,000 would be more than enough to raise huge red flags.

Are you insane or just totally out of touch with reality? You say even 1 million would raise red flags... Here are a few numbers for you.

Number of people on Food stamps.
2008... 28 million
2014... 47 million

Number of people on Medicaid.
2008... 44 million
2015... 70 million and rising fast.

Total number of people receiving some type of welfare from the government 110 Million..

So if 1 million would raise red flags what color flag does this raise for you?
This flag:
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 06:53:18  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Kingnobody said:
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
This is a much less surprising number when you understand that the top 10% of the American economy received just under 50% of all income in 2012, and this is on a steep, progressing incline. This also only factors income claimed.

Source: Piketty & Saez (2003) series updated to 2012 by the IRS.

But yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with America's income distribution when .01% of the population receive 6%, and 10% receives 50% of the income distribution (probably more by this point). Liberals are the ones ruining everything, not consistent deregulation starting in the 70s that has returned the wealthy to Robber Baron status.
Why am I not surprised that you didn't even fully read the study? Well, you didn't even show the source, so I'm guessing you got it from an article that read it from a Berkeley website that quoted the source, but you never really read any of it.

Also, good attempt at a strawman.
I sourced you just fine. I have a hard copy. If you wanted to dispute the details, you had all the information you needed to find it. That's a really weak excuse for an ad hominem, though. And no, it wasn't a straw man. I never restated your argument in my own terms, but I did draw a parallel between statistical data and a largely conservative approach to economics. It gave context to your abuse of statistical numbers to imply undue gravity.
You took my argument of the percentage of people who do not pay income tax and turned it into an income distribution argument. That's the strawman.

But I still believe that you never read it, even if you had a "hard copy." Reason being, the study took a small sample of data (after scrubbing it to death with a very complex calculation that eliminated most of the hard data) and tried to pass it as a way to explain why income distribution is growing. Never mind that the scrubbed-to-hell data doesn't even back that assertion at all anyway.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 07:04:26  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
1. 50% of Americans pay no income tax.
The big winners of this is big corporations and elderly and young families making under 100,000 a year

Wait, what? How in the world do you get corporations (nearly all of which do pay income tax) "winning" at the fact that nearly 50% of Americans pay no income tax?

Also, the amount of income a family of 4 can earn and not pay tax is $26,100. Not legally of course, but IRS will never check filing statuses for people with such low income, even though that's where most of the "errors" are found.

Siren.Lordgrim said: »
that money the irs took from you goes to the federal reserve which then goes overseas none of it even goes back to America where you would think it would be spent on fixing infrastructure ect.
What in the *** are you talking about? First off, do you even have any evidence to back this? Evidence meaning an actual paper trail, not some youtube nutjob or conspiracy theory website like lolinfowars saying so.

Secondly, what the *** are you talking about? Seriously, stop making ***up all the time.

Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Instead what you receive back from your taxed again income tax return is freshly printed imaginary money from the Federal Reserve. Which adds more to our nations debt by printing that extra money it does not have under your name from a entity that is private and not even Part of the government its employees are not government employees.

Seriously, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Go read a book, you domestic terrorist. Hurry before you start tinkering with bombs and accidentally blow yourself up.
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 Asura.Wormfeeder
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-23 07:57:11  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Actually liberal polices are what causes entities to become bankrupt.
Although I'm sure you're letting your anus speak on your behalf as usual...

What the hell are you talking about? I mean in context. The closest we've come to talking about bankruptcy is someone living hand-to-mouth (paycheck-to-paycheck, whichever you prefer) getting screwed by a bad roommate. There's nothing liberal or conservative about that story.

Additionally, what kind of drugs do I need to take to correlate liberal policies (I assume you mean economic policies?) with bankruptcy? What, bankruptcy as a concept didn't exist until FDR made it up? Bad business decisions, market crashes, natural disasters, wars, obsolescence, competition... any number of things can cause bankruptcy and neither liberal nor conservative economic policy can be blamed generally. A specific liberal or conservative policy might contribute to a specific failure... or it might not.

There's a pristine town in rural Canada. It was built in 1979 and abandoned in 1981 after residents had lived there just 18 months. The company that owned and built the town paid everyone to GTFO. It had been built around a molybdenum mine and refining operation just before the price of molybdenum crashed... so clearly Obama's fault, right?

As for the insolvency of Social Security... there couldn't be anything like the deliberate dismantling of the entire system by conservative politicians looking to reduce the tax payment of their biggest contributors involved in that, could there?

I'd love to figure out who first sold Americans on the idea that taxes are evil. Paying taxes is patriotic, unless you seriously expect the most hugely funded military in the world to hold bake sales every time they need a new shipment of flak jackets. The reason for the War for American Independence was a.) lack of representation in government and b.) the fleecing of literally every American. Had the Crown had its way, the US could easily have wound up living on 10 lbs. of potatoes a day and shipping all its meat and grain to Britain. Y'know, like what happened in Ireland and why the potato blight killed millions.
You are such a good statist.
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 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-04-23 08:48:19  
How to make better wages and jobs, Repeal free trade acts.

congressional meeting talking about how bad a deal America got out of free trade deals under republican and democratic leadership
YouTube Video Placeholder



NAFTA job loss year established 1993 = 680,000 jobs lost from America, all major TV networks and Both Political parties advertised this as being a great deal to have.

Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China act job loss year established 2000 = lead to the loss of over 2.2 million American jobs, Both parties and major networks agreed it was a great deal and passed it.

South Korean Free Trade Act jobs lost Year established 2011 = 60,000 jobs were lost from America, Major networks approved both parties approved.

Since 2001 due to free trade deals we have lost 60,000 factories in America, over that time period we lost over 4.7 million Manufacturing jobs in America.

In 1970 25% of all jobs in America were manufacturing jobs. Today there is only 9%.

In january 2001 there was 17.1 million manufacturing workers. Today that number is 12.3 million manufacturing workers in America.

Across all 50 states lost 34% of there manufacturing jobs over the past 14 years.

We are now faced with the Trans Pacific Free Trade Act that is written by corporations. Its reported to be the largest free trade act in history. Wall street, Pharmaceutical Industry and Major media companies have full knowledge of whats in the treaty. The american people and members of congress do not and have been locked out of the process.

There has been estimated jobs that could be losted to Vietnam and japan alone more then 135,000 jobs if it goes into effect thats just the tip of the iceberg.

More than manufacturing jobs to be lost in America due to TPP include the following over 3 million service center jobs;

call centers
computer programing
engineering
accounting
Medical diagnostic jobs


Free trade acts are bad. Whats more disturbing is these deals have been put in place by both the Republicans and Democrats at the behest of Corporations. Are you convinced now that they do not represent the peoples best interest ? Stop voting for Republicans and Democrats, lets reasses all these free trade acts , repeal them, and put our foot down on all these corporations and ceo's causing economic terrorism in the United States of America and bring our jobs home and rebuild this country to be even stronger to be A Better America.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 08:48:54  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
What the hell are you talking about? I mean in context. The closest we've come to talking about bankruptcy is someone living hand-to-mouth (paycheck-to-paycheck, whichever you prefer) getting screwed by a bad roommate. There's nothing liberal or conservative about that story.
Sure, use an anecdotal story to determine if a certain policy is effective or not....

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Additionally, what kind of drugs do I need to take to correlate liberal policies (I assume you mean economic policies?) with bankruptcy? What, bankruptcy as a concept didn't exist until FDR made it up? Bad business decisions, market crashes, natural disasters, wars, obsolescence, competition... any number of things can cause bankruptcy and neither liberal nor conservative economic policy can be blamed generally. A specific liberal or conservative policy might contribute to a specific failure... or it might not.
First off, you begin by saying that liberal economic policies do not contribute to bankruptcy, then you say "maybe" they do. Make up your damn mind!

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
There's a pristine town in rural Canada. It was built in 1979 and abandoned in 1981 after residents had lived there just 18 months. The company that owned and built the town paid everyone to GTFO. It had been built around a molybdenum mine and refining operation just before the price of molybdenum crashed... so clearly Obama's fault, right?
So, what's your solution then? Have the government support the people in that town since their economy crashed due to the price of a commodity? Isn't that what's happening from 2008-today?

But yeah, clearly attribute a blame game on somebody who wasn't in power at the time. I'm sure you will blame policies that were enacted from 2009 to today on Bush, because he was clearly in power during that time.

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
As for the insolvency of Social Security... there couldn't be anything like the deliberate dismantling of the entire system by conservative politicians looking to reduce the tax payment of their biggest contributors involved in that, could there?
You mean the people who generally pay into that program and receive a smaller benefit than those who don't pay as much into that program? You do know that the payroll tax cut of 2% that happened a couple of years (2010) back happened during...you guessed it...Obama's term. And guess which Congress passed such cuts. Let me give you a hint: It was the same Congress who passed ACA, the law that didn't need one Republican vote in order to get passed.

So, try your false equivalences again, k?

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I'd love to figure out who first sold Americans on the idea that taxes are evil. Paying taxes is patriotic, unless you seriously expect the most hugely funded military in the world to hold bake sales every time they need a new shipment of flak jackets. The reason for the War for American Independence was a.) lack of representation in government and b.) the fleecing of literally every American. Had the Crown had its way, the US could easily have wound up living on 10 lbs. of potatoes a day and shipping all its meat and grain to Britain. Y'know, like what happened in Ireland and why the potato blight killed millions.
Again, false equivalences. Nobody (except flower heads) is saying that taxes are evil. But we are tired of paying the most in taxes and then getting bitched at for not paying "our fair share."

How would you like it if you pay a couple of hundred thousand dollars every three months and then get bitched at for not paying more?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 08:54:18  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
NAFTA job loss year established 1993 = 680,000 jobs lost from America, all major TV networks and Both Political parties advertised this as being a great deal to have.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China act job loss year established 2000 = lead to the loss of over 2.2 million American jobs, Both parties and major networks agreed it was a great deal and passed it.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
South Korean Free Trade Act jobs lost Year established 2011 = 60,000 jobs were lost from America, Major networks approved both parties approved.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Since 2001 due to free trade deals we have lost 60,000 factories in America, over that time period we lost over 4.7 million Manufacturing jobs in America.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
In 1970 25% of all jobs in America were manufacturing jobs. Today there is only 9%.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
In january 2001 there was 17.1 million manufacturing workers. Today that number is 12.3 million manufacturing workers in America.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Across all 50 states lost 34% of there manufacturing jobs over the past 14 years


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
We are now faced with the Trans Pacific Free Trade Act that is written by corporations. Its reported to be the largest free trade act in history. Wall street, Pharmaceutical Industry and Major media companies have full knowledge of whats in the treaty. The american people and members of congress do not and have been locked out of the process.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
There has been estimated jobs that could be losted to Vietnam and japan alone more then 135,000 jobs if it goes into effect thats just the tip of the iceberg.


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
More than manufacturing jobs to be lost in America due to TPP include the following over 3 million service center jobs;

call centers
computer programing
engineering
accounting
Medical diagnostic jobs


Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Free trade acts are bad. Whats more disturbing is these deals have been put in place by both the Republicans and Democrats at the behest of Corporations. Are you convinced now that they do not represent the peoples best interest ? Stop voting for Republicans and Democrats, lets reasses all these free trade acts , repeal them, and put our foot down on all these corporations and ceo's causing economic terrorism in the United States of America and bring our jobs home and rebuild this country to be even stronger to be A Better America.
Seriously, source your assertions. Making statements like that require a source from which studies have been performed that attribute these so-called losses that you are claiming to have happened.

And I'm sure that these numbers are gross, not net. Because you are making it sound like these free trade treaties did not bring manufacturing jobs over here. I guess you never heard of the term "foreign investment" before.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-04-23 08:56:20  
watch the video child i won't do your homework for you
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 08:58:03  
He makes assertions and claims, doesn't mean it's true.

Maybe that's your problem, you believe everything is said on TV (and by extension, youtube). Sorry, you cannot shoot lasers out of your eyes or fly around the galaxy in a telephone booth. Hate to break it to you, but Hydra never existed.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 09:00:23  
Now that I think about it, it all makes sense on your arguments.

I hate to break it to you, but most of TV is fiction.

Even politicians cannot be trusted to know the facts. Ask Mr. "You can keep your doctor if you like it" Obama and Mrs. "We have to pass it in order to read it" Pelosi.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-23 09:03:39  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
i won't do your homework for you
AKA you got nothing. No surprise.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-04-23 09:23:06  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Kingnobody said:
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
This is a much less surprising number when you understand that the top 10% of the American economy received just under 50% of all income in 2012, and this is on a steep, progressing incline. This also only factors income claimed.

Source: Piketty & Saez (2003) series updated to 2012 by the IRS.

But yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with America's income distribution when .01% of the population receive 6%, and 10% receives 50% of the income distribution (probably more by this point). Liberals are the ones ruining everything, not consistent deregulation starting in the 70s that has returned the wealthy to Robber Baron status.
Everybody knows the best way to even out income is to make everyone equally poor.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-04-23 09:23:09  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.

If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts....just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing?
Can I please ask for a citation there? I've been through times of hardship and I've known other people who have done as well. $200 a month in food stamps (this was back around the 2008 crash, the benefit has since been reduced or so I'm told) and virtually nothing else is kind of a long way from pulling down $35 grand a year.
hard data on welfare

Research about the amount of money received by welfare recipients
Interesting comparisons in those statics.

They seem to show that there are a whole lot of jobs out there that pay less than a living wage.
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