Dev Tracker - News, Discussions

I must be in the minority that fun isn't dependant on being the most powerful or getting highest damage in parses. I find it more fun to go out as a group and make sure everyone else is having fun with me.

That doesn't mean I won't try my best to get better gear or get higher numbers myself. I always try to make myself stronger and when I improve, that's fun as well. I don't look at my THF, DNC and SMN friends and wish they would get nerfed so I can be at the top of a parse. Their higher damage is a win-win for me as well, especially since they get to go on jobs they love.

And my WAR DRK DRG friends still do the same or more damage as before and are having the same fun as well. Is epeen really more fun than winning a fight everyone thinks you shouldn't win?

I am actually inclined to agree with you here. Rudra is OP as it gets, I think Mandalic and Shark bite need work and Rudra needs too look more at the Savage Blade dmg. On top of that they need to bring war, drg and drk up some. Not sure how the "sam nerf" will be if they actually do one. Guess that is wait and see here.

My opinion on this might be a bit suspect, as I'm nearing completion of my mythic, but if they bring Rudra's down enough to where it is still great, but mythic holders (and relic holders) get better performance out of their respective WSes, that might be better.

Of course, I thought they were going to completely phase RME out at one point.

drg is actually a lot better than people give it credit for, they could just use little bit of a push to make them sam level. Could be something as simple as wyverns that aren't made of tissue paper and actually contribute. That could be done by making their reforged empy good for tping in as well as putting some pet tping stat vomit on it. That way pet and master can both contribute while the drg tps.

Drk is going to be a little harder. The idea of absorbs not decaying anymore intrigues me. People also are a fan of enlight not decaying, so that and endark not decaying would make sense. That is enough extra damage for a pld for sure, but drk needs more of a boost. I say for it the wsc of scythe ws should be improved. They should have higher percentages and more double attributes, that way drk can really benefit from absorbs.

I don't want to do huge amounts of damage because of epeen. I just want the job I enjoy and worked hard on to be as effective as the jobs others enjoy and worked hard on.

It's just kind of disheartening to pour everything you have into a job and have that effort be of less value than someone who pours less effort into a different job.

Yes it's purely an emotional thing and not based on numbers and logic. I was finally getting to have some fun my way without truly or perceptually hindering anyone else. If they do nerf my favorite job back down to oblivion, I'll still be able to do stuff since I have other options. I just won't have nearly as much fun doing those things.

Yeah I know what you mean by having the work you do paying off when the time comes. I just feel that no job right now should feel like they're weak or holding anyone back unless the player doesn't have the skill to back it up. Every job right now has the power to contribute in real ways to current endgame content.

I don't get the mentality of weakening one or two jobs just to appease the insecurities of some people. Any way you look at it, some group of people get hurt in the process. Better to adjust general mechanics to affect everyone equally and buff specific things so at least people can contribute.

Here's the problem, what fight's shouldn't you win? You can do anything with basically any setup in this game, nothing is even remotely hard when you go with not terrible people. So to some people it becomes a game of doing something the best/fastest way possible because it leads to a sense of urgency that doesn't exist doing it any other way. I'm not saying that either way is right or wrong, both are valid ways that people enjoy this game. Personally I get zero enjoyment out of doing something slower that I've done 100x before just because someone wants to play an objectively weaker job.

From my point of view, the problem is with the userbase in large part with this stuff.

I play DNC. DNC is love, DNC is life. There is no god but Bryth and Sapphire is the prophet, etc. I have repeatedly run in to the problem in linkshells before the Rudra's update wherein, as DNC, I can spend the entire fight tanking because I'm the only one who doesn't get blown part like they're as tough as the strongest sick kitten, clad in armor made of the limpest wet cardboard, while keeping the rest of the DDs alive by Waltzing to cover what the WHM can't for one reason or another, and still be called worthless, have people state that I contributed nothing, I am dead weight, why am I in this linkshell, DNC is stupid, I'm stupid for playing DNC, etc, because while tanking the delve boss and healing my own party with Divine Waltz and other people in the alliance as able with Curing Waltz, I only came in 4th out of 9 people on the parse.

People put way too much emphasis on the parse. They think that damage is the only measure of how much a person contributes. It doesn't matter if you can do almost as well as the best DD while also tanking the entire fight and averting wipes multiple times, you didn't parse high enough. It doesn't matter if you organize almost all the events, and run yourself ragged doing so. You play the wrong job, and you don't parse high enough.

It doesn't matter if the LS goes from "we can't beat Tojil" to "we stick the DNC in the DD party and sudden we're beating Tojil because we're not wiping because the DNC is spending the entire fight tanking while healing which keeps the other DDs alive so they can kill Tojil instead of them getting plastered because people insist on wearing Thaumas Coat while tojil is making pudding out of them", etc, etc, etc.

There are too many people who can only comprehend "biggest number is best player", because other things are hard to quantify.

For what it's worth, I don't think I'm the greatest DNC in the world. I've seen my CV, it's nothing to write home about. I doubt I'm even in the top 10. I think that there are, how ever, a lot of very, very bad players who managed to get very well geared because they played jobs people wanted. The number of BRDs I have seen who play two songs and then go to sleep, refuse to back up heal, throw erases, etc, makes me weep. There's one WHM running around my server, with an Arka IV, still mostly in Empy armor, who tries to do ilvl stuff, and does it very poorly, and can't understand why they should maybe upgrade their gear, or why there are better alternatives than Arka IV, because that stick has 2% less cure potency than muh Arka IV. Oh, and stat vomit. And effective level. And other things. But muh Arka IV.

I really could go on. I love to ***. I do it a lot, I have practice, I have studied *** theory at college, and I got my Canis Emeritus from deBitch University. But this is a very real problem.

Is Rudra's too good? Likely. I don't have enough data to say with certainty. From my experience, it does seem to blow most other things out of the water. However, from my experience, a lot of SAMs were very poorly geared, but just knew how to spam Fudo constantly when properly buffed. I've seen monks, in full 119 delve and AA gear, who don't know what Formless Strikes is, too. So it's entirely possible that Rudra's is too good. It could also be that the average player is actually not good, and that people who held tenaciously on to THF and DNC when they were not the hot ***actually really like those jobs and know them and are invested in them instead of bandwagoners flitting from latest metagame craze to latest metagame craze.

What I would personally like to see is other DDs who are lacking brought up to SAM/THF/DNC/BST level. I also understand it's far harder to do that than it is to just knock Rudra's, and therefore THF and DNC (and that one mythic BRD who insists on meleeing and does okay at it) down a notch. But one of the absolute worst things game designers can do is build the dominant meta into the game. It causes stagnation. It destroys diversity. I would love it if I logged in tomorrow and saw AA and Delve and Alluvion shouts saying "bring whatever's fun" and that worked because everyone was able to contribute (or in a way that was quantifiable enough for the people who can't deal with abstract concepts like healing).

I do decent damage on my DNC. I still need the right buffs, the right food, have a lot of gear for swapping, even if it's not 'the best' gear (which is hard to get 'cause I can't get in to the things that drop it), but it also requires teammates who also know what they're doing to truly shine.

Just like I, and other competent THFs and DNCs with the right gear can do well, so too could two well geared SAMs who could just manage to coordinate alternating their weapon skills to do massive L2 skillchains. But that requires coordination, teamwork, and gear, at least more of those than is required to fudofudofudo and constantly interrupt each other's skillchains.

Right now, for the first time since Adoulin came out, on my server, I'm seeing DNC being, not requested, but acceptable to take to end game content. I really like that. What I would like more would be to see more diversity, which I am also seeing after doing some DNC BST MNK Tojil runs. I hope to see much more of it.

But right now, I'm taking what I can get, while I can get it.

And, as Camiie said, "If they do nerf my favorite job back down to oblivion, I'll still be able to do stuff since I have other options. I just won't have nearly as much fun doing those things."

After Terps I'm making Death Penalty. So there's always "get hate and die because you're not a relic ranger" to look forward to.

I think it is time SE takes off the -15% attk penalty from reso as well. Brings back the original Ukko style and helps drg, I haven't enjoyed drg since lvl 75 cap.

And one last thing before I try to lay down again.

Ultimately, this entire problem, not just THF and DNC, but SAM, too, stems from making the Empy WSes permanently acquirable and usable without the weapon. I think.

bring back original VS,UF and resolutions. I'll return to game for that. Otherwise will continue to just boycott all SE titles.

For me, killing stuff faster for the sense of urgency is very boring since its something I've already done too many times in the last 10 years.

This is especially true if it means making people feel excluded or shunned just for their job even though they have the skills to back it up and hit a wall in progressing because of their jobs. If making myself stronger was just about me, I would go back to competitive Street Fighter.

A fight that lasts 3-5 mins longer means nothing to me if everyone actually gets to use what they really put their hearts into. And if that urgency of speed is something I ever needed, I make myself stronger, more resilient for the people around me and they do the same as well. It pushes me to actually tinker with my jobs everyday, making minor adjustments and testing them in battle.

People who are strong with the jobs they want to play inspire me to be stronger and people tell me my strengths inspire them to get stronger too.

Also, does bringing a WAR DRK DRG over a SAM or any other bandwagon job really slow it down that much? And doing something over 100 times already, faster only equates to the same thing I did that last 100 times.

Like I said, people enjoy the game it different ways and that doesn't make either more or less valid. It's about finding a group that meshes with how you want to play, and if needed sometimes having to play a different way. I already explained that I enjoy doing things as fast and efficient as possible, however I did Yorcia with a freakin Drg last night because hey they were in my LS and are good people and wanted to come. I didn't get any sort of enjoyment out of bringing the mostly dead weight however, no matter how much heart that person puts into Drg Wopket isn't going to take any damage from their polearm. As far as slowing it down, depends. If I took my War to a Yorcia run instead of my Sam or Blu you would of course see a noticeable speed difference in killing. Now that skillchains are so broken party setup is really something that does change kill speeds. Some jobs are just shafted on all fronts with SCing and DPS output.

Well fun to me is accomplishing as much as I can in my limited time. Doing a 1 hour kaggen with dds as warrior is not fun. Bring dancers theifs done in 20 minutes is fun. Doing a full 45 minute wopket is not fun.

If I can accomplish the same goal in same amount of time playing a weaker job that's fine. When I go dancer on capacity points party It feels fun. When I go on Sam with full new skirmish gears kill speed is slower. I feel like the thief is making up my slack. Well that's just how I feel.

I usually like to pull my weigh when i join or make parties. I didn't join new skirmish till I get all the gears I can possible get on red mage/black mage.

This update and nerf is complete bs to solo thiefs. If the nerf is to "bad" then I'm done with this game. It's unacceptable to give us this power and then take it away! And I know, I know, other jobs have faced this prime example my 119 Ukon that has been collecting dust. The developers need to make harder content with higher defenses that will make rs "weaker" nit just gimp it for a dumb spell or for the fact that thf built its legitimacy beyond th ***.

IDK why this bothers me so much when I see these statements but it does, but none the less I’ve definitely enjoyed the time of doing crazy spike dmg on THF and while it’s only fair they make the adjustment I wouldn’t mind seeing MS get back in the game.

Can't wait for THF+RDM to be ridiculously overpowered doing like 80k Skillchains.

So for those not quitting the game because of Rudra's, what do you think empty armor will be called? I'm guessing it will follow the naming scheme of our JSE back pieces. Anyone who's not leaving want to weigh in on that guess?

Well i doubt pup will be dispersal armor. They like to refer to us as clowns/jesters/carne folk

AF Puppetry -> Foire (carnie clothes~ Clothes worn by the people who work at a fare)
RL Pantin (puppet)->Pitre (Clown)
Emp Cirque (Circus)-> Farceur (jester)
JSE cloak -Dispersal

Damn, tell us how you really feel.

Increasing monster defense would hurt other jobs more than it would create a "balance" for Rudra.

What appears to have happened is that SE realized that by making some dagger weaponskills more competitive unstacked in the earlier update, THF (and DNC for the most part) have the ability to take advantage of this and increase the damage even further. As much as I love droping 30K Rudra's, it's easy to see where SE (and others) are coming from in terms of a change being needed. How much of a change? To be completely honest, after rereading Matsui's response again and thinking about his comment where he talks about thieves accumulating TP in advance, I think that the nerf to Rudra's is going to be rather large and they will simply flatten the ftp to 6.0 across all anchor points and change it to weight duration varies with TP.

I know this may upset a lot of people, but it would still be double the damage it used to be at 100% TP, and Ardor could boost SC damage close to current levels due to the number of attacks that take place before the skillchain.

Ardor this and ardor that, it's still not going to be a big deal because rdm is lol at best. With the exception of flurry2 and maybe a slight more amount of haste other jobs can do exactly everything rdm can and more. Rdm will be the new hype like it was for flurry2 and haste 2 because of ardor then it will fall back into obscurity again. Nerf one job to try and boost another...seems like balance.

Actually rdm is quite good. Distract II is a huge acc boost, di3 is about equal to +20% attack for the alliance, haste2 is great because how often do people bring smn. Besides stun duty, rdm offers much more than say SCH which mostly a nuke/healer over time job. If you don't need nukes, then they're all theyre good for is regen5.

Right now the drg is actually quite good. Definitely better than war drk mnk nin bst. The fulltime 20% attack without the def penalty(actually 20% def bonus) and 10% haste stacking with hasso gives them an enormous edge in small parties where they'd only get haste1 and nq marches with capped haste, the fulltime 20% attack is huge. The tradeoff is when the wyvern dies, they're drop below all those listed jobs. Thf and dnc are ahead of everyone with rudra, followed by mythic sam, followed by blu, followed by mythic drg then tsurumaru sam, then the other dds. Before the rudra buff, mythic sam>mythic drg>tsu sam>non mythic drg. Outside of breaths, wyvern are hitting for 220-300 and gain my haste2/marches from empathy and usually have about 80% hit rate. It's like a free floating 150 delay 200dmg sword floating above me that buffs my ws by 900 damage not even including the +attack and 5% DA it gives me(100JP trait).

Wyvern actually contributes decently. I can pull off 10-12k stardiver with 890 breaths(petmidcast with acro after ws). Those breaths add up every single ws. Wyvern does 880+ on all most new content due to the strafe buffs and macc update(i have about 90m.acc from 18-25 on all 5/5 acro pieces which i midcast after ws for breath dmg)

On the other hand, Distract II is hardly better than Distract I which Geo can land on anything Rdm can. Dia 3 is either equal to or barely better than Dia 2 because of attack overcap these days. Haste 2 at best allows you to only have to use 1 March, adding only something like 60-70 attack or 40~ accuracy. Haste 2 got shafted hard by being only 30%, haste is an absolutely must have stat to cap and the only thing that caps with Haste 2 without wildly overcapping is Marchx1, which if you have a Brd you can cap haste with anyways without Haste 2. To make Red Mage worth using in a normal 6 man setup (DDx2-3, Bufferx2-3, Whm) it is going to either have to stun or ardor is going to have to be wildly overpowered. Personally I can't see Rdm becoming a staple job for any non-stunning setup without major buffs.

Yeah, hardcores bring brds to everythinf, but i've joined plenty of content runs where only one party got a brd and the other had a cor. In cases like that, you're only getting haste 2. People always assume the ideals, i.e. Capped haste with ghorn 4 song brds etc with idris geos capping everyone's attack. In the real world, outside of the top 10%, most of the time you won't have capped haste and capped pdif. In cases like that dia3 distract II really do shine, and it's the majority of the time. If you run with a good LS or a small static group, this is irrelevant. But for the casuals or semi-advanced which make up the other 90% of the player base rdm has excellent tools to weaken mobs and buff players in unison with a brd geo or cor. Hell even alone, a rdm by itself is better than a 3song brd by itself until you start adding in relic horn, SV and Clarion call, haste II, distractII, Dia III>marchx2 haste1 and minuet5. Comparing ghorn4 song brd to rdm isnt very fair in terms of judging the balance between jobs. Assuming a rdm with capped enhancing and good duration gear vs a +4 song brd with terpander, rdm appears as the better support class. And thats how SE balances jobs. Based off of majority, NQ wherewithal. Not prime r/e/m.

Nah, if you don't have available GHorn/Dar BRDs and Idris GEOs, you really should just quit the game. To make Red Mage worth using, you'd have to have a mental disorder. Personally I can't see Rdm becoming a stable job for any event whatsoever.

What's a GHorn?

A weapon used for sleeping enemies and an overly exaggerated minor buffing boost.

Wat? You don't need an Idris, Daurdabal, Ghorn, or anything to cap these stats. Literally you can cap haste solo on basically every job because of trusts, your saying this is somehow hard to do with actual other players? It takes 1 Brd or Geo to cap haste, with absolutely no special items. I can't think of any pug I've joined for anything in years that hasn't had at least a Brd, Geo, or Trust NPC to fill that role. Capping attack is a little harder, but it's not as hard as people seem to assume. After the Fury/Frailty update, attack just went out of control.

Are you actually trolling me saying Rdm beats a Terp Brd?
Terp bard= Capped Haste, -10% Defense Down, +80~ Attack Minuet or +40~ Accuracy Madrigal.
Rdm= 30% Haste, -15% defense down, and -15-50 Eva.
This isn't even comparable.

Edit: I wouldn't be suprised if a 2 song Bard beat an Rdm, that extra 13% attack speed is huge.