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And your experiential basis for your LOL's is?

Newsflash: most of us don't roll with a bot army, and as a result people operate at a range of skill levels based on ability and situational factors. This needs to be accounted for.

jesus *** christ, i hope you live in california cause the tears from your smn woes could solve their drought problem

god forgive me for i have lagged

If you can't teach someone how to press the same button over and over again, they sure as hell aren't doing HELM on a job other than SMN.

Bud. He was talking about in reference to other jobs, stop trying to downplay his argument as if he's not right. You need even BETTER geared other jobs to perform the same role as SMN.


Literally all of this is a lie. Your first point is completely irrelevant, at most the lag is going to add .5-1sec of delay between each BP which is *STILL* meaningless because of how fast SMNs kill monsters. This is even further corroborated by the fact that you feel the need to mention that it needs to be sync'd with Odyllic Subterfuge, which is only THIRTY SECONDS.

Psst, it's not that *** hard to sync it with Odyllic Subterfuge, people can talk in party chat, bud.

Also you're lying about 1 SMN not performing ruining a run. I've gone on 1 Schah fight with SMNs before and it legitimately died before Subterfuge even wore. That means they had AT LEAST an additional 30 seconds before the shield came up. And even on non-Schah monsters, Wild Card, Super Revits, Random Deals give another 3 Apogees for another 6 instant BPs.

Stop trying to downplay SMN so hard lmfao

It doesn't matter how many times you hit the button if your avatar is petrified, amnesiad, out of range, dead, or if you've tapped on MP in 20 seconds like you should have done!

I'm not saying that its rocket-science, nothing in this game is, what I'm saying is that when damage is dealt in large increments like it is from maximally boosted BP's, just missing one or two hits creates a substantial defecit.

Spread this out over a large number of contributors, that defecit can grow to critical proportions resulting in the mob still being alive after Odyllic wears.

But hey, what do I know. 15 Aeonics done almost entirely with an alliance while playing as a whole bunch of jobs, not just SMN.

Good thing Odyllic Subterfuge all but guarantees these won't happen. And, if they do, you can recast it! Are you suggesting that hitting release and resummon once every 8-10 fights is too much effort for someone who could have otherwise won in a legitimate setup?

Good thing escha includes near limitless different MP temps and curio moogle sells vile elixirs, if the monster is even alive after 20 seconds.

Even if the mob is still alive after odyllic wears, you have super revitalizers, wild card, apogee, and it'll only be barely alive. Never mind that you don't seem to grasp how much margin of error there is in terms of damage dealt vs damage needed. Have you ever actually done a conduit burn..?

And we're saying that it doesn't make nearly as much of a deficit as you claim there is. Each character adds 160k HP to a monster (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while) and BP averages are ~20k (I went with extremely low end because as I've said, I've only done AC zerg once so I don't want to overestimatee) then it only takes eight blood pacts for a SMN to carry their weight. You can pull off 30/1.6 + 6 = 24.75 blood pacts with just 1 SMN if you super revi/WC apogee back. That number goes up to 30 if you RD>WC>RD. Even at the low estimate of 20k per BP, you've done 335k more damage than required to pull your own weight. You literally only have to BP once every 3.5 seconds (no Apogee at all) during AC to carry your weight. I'm willing to bet the average of a decent SMN (correct gear choices but maybe not fully HQ'd out) is probably closer to 30-40k per BP which makes the requirements even lower.

Yes, you can get petri/amnesia/killed etc, but Odyllic Subterfuge greatly reduces that, and if you care that much, a literal Dunna afk GEO mule with bolster Vex will even further help that. In the case of Schah (since it's the only one that actually has a strict time requirement) even if you *do* *** up, you can legitimately do 5 or 6 Schahs in the time that any other setup type can do 1 because of the lower time commitment.

I'm pretty sure I've got a ton more experience than you have, do any of you jokers actually play SMN?

Hell, when was the last time you actually did anything with a full alliance of real players? It seems to me that you are stuck in a bubble based on performance in low-man mercs.

I'm capped on Aeonics, and as I have no desire to merc, Escha is *done* for me. I have nothing to prove, and nothing personally to lose from your ludicrous disinformation campaign.

I'm the one honestly telling it how it is.

I have merced a single aeonic about a year ago, I have no interest in dragging people through 3 zones because it's an annoying time/scheduling commitment. I did my first 5 aeonics with full LS runs before the game kinda tapered off and killed off interest of most people.

You've still shown 0 evidence to back your claims, even with low number estimates it already throws your claims off. If you want me to go get AC experience I can very easily go and ask some Asura groups that *DO* use SMNs to join them just to prove you wrong, if that's what will make you happy.

6 fully geared SMNs, and I'm not talking about just volt strike sets. 2 have nirvana, other 4 in the works(mostly just because I wanted a second carn/yag and it's silly to make less than 6 mythics at once).

Sure, I merc by myself. But, I also run a linkshell full of people I've known since I only played one character. My last aeonic run had 2 of my characters and 16 other people, some of which have only been back to the game for less than a month. So, less than a week ago? And, no, it wasn't SMN burned.

Nice sentiment, but you're not any less transparent than the others. You don't want SMN nerfed because you play it outside burns. That's fair. It doesn't mean you need to *** though, there's no reason a conclusion can't be reached that allows SMN to remain useful outside burns.

the 3 of us on smn with run + geo (and external cor buff) and 3 that joined (but only sold to 1 for 30m, that guy called godspirit), had to squeeze everything there lol

With the fact that only one zone is gonna be released for new_dyna I'm kinda wondering if this means that no Relic +2/+3 will be released and bound to this new content?

It could be that each zone will be one slot (kinda like the old zones, but with GEO/RUN added to the group), or it could be that Relic+2/3 simply isn't coming.

Hope it's not the latter, dunno about everybody else but I'm really looking forward for Relic+2/3

Well i dont know the prices about apogee+1 gear now but when i bought it, legs alone cost me 70m, feet 45 and head 25, you have to add to this things like elan +1, sancus +1, 2 varar+1 rings, af1+3 body reforge and whatever costs you to make a good merlin hands, prices might be much lower now but im not keeping track all i named including nirvana was around 640-650m back then.

the 3 smn to 2 leeches sounds about right but for AC purposes, you just need 1 geo really so if i were to do alliance AC burn, it would be something like run geo smn x10-12 and 4 cors, with this amount of smns the room for error or someone starting late or 2-3 smns not being the best gear can happen (the best geared can cover what the others lack) but as stated before and its what i think too, the optimal way of doing AC burns is with a pt of 6 or less if possible.

But as i mentioned before, in a real scenario with the current game, its hard to find on the same server that many smns with top gear imo.

There's actually a way of even doing it faster to skip animation (ala bst), press volt strike macro > assault > press again lol, annoying but its a thing (as i did with BST when those glory unleash moments happened).

My thoughts and hopes would they would do a piece per zone, however, that would mean some jobs in this patch would not have any relic upgrades at all from sandy. So I'm not sure.

It will just be 1 piece per zone following the standard feet hands legs and head or body last. Its that or they do a group thing(feet/hands, legs/head, and body last) and the final zone or 2 is all new gear or something

I bet the job card equivalent will be in ever zone (assuming they don't just flat out used the same cards again) but that the mega boss ones for the +3s will be by zone

Knowing how much SE loves to make new currency each update and fill our inventory I can see "Excellence <Job> Coin: Head","Excellence <Job> Coin: Body", etc.

Please SE ignore this message and stick with 1 type of currency per job ^_^

Being a multi-zone "system" like Aby and Escha I'd expect a big part of the progression will be earning zone buffs, like time-extensions.

What concerns me a bit is that Dynamis zones aren't particularly big, so the looming bogey-man of congestion is likely to encourage them to strictly control access-time, at least until new areas come into play and spread the load.

I suspect that we'll get an hour at most initially, with 30 minute extends earned by beating the end boss or some other means.

I think that a lot of stuff is going to be npc-bought using some sort of shared currency, with NM's purely supplying key items and materials for relic upgrading.

*Checks SE list*

Yeah, haven't used coins yet. Gonna be the coins for sure. We had seals, chapters, cards, papers. Just coins and tokens left.

Coins of Warrior: Head x8 for upgrade.

They had a fairly coherent upgrade currency to 119 for the Relic/Artifact/Empy with Chapters 1-5 to 109 and 6-10 to 119.

I can see the cards staying but with new craftables and job specific drops as part of the deal, just like ilvl progression where we went from needing Abyssea NM drops to etched memories as one of the ingredients. There will be something else needed to replace the scales used for Omen upgrades.

The reason older content had such a mishmash of currencies is different teams and expansions were involved. I don't see them going off the reserve on this one.

I could be wrong, but we'll find out.

I also think the zones themselves will be reserved for one party similar to omen and any congestion will just be due to there being limited zone spaces, but otherwise, there wont be competition in the same zones.

I agree with a surprising amount of this. I'm picturing something closer to Abyssea than original Dynamis.

I just wonder if they'll still drop currency. and how many 100s will get shoehorned into +ing.

I highly doubt existing dynamis currency is going to be involved, simply because you can pull unlimited amounts from the original zones already.

On the other hand I can see them re-using the dynamis proc system to encourage targets to drop a new sort of currency in greater amounts. Once again though, I can't see it being nation specific given the staggered roll-out of the zones.

You cannot dismiss this fact, and its 100% accurate representation.

I don't know why others don't see it.


Last time it was mentioned i believe it was between 200k-300k per person in alliance:

[GEO RUN COR SMN SMN SMN] [GEO SMN SMN SMN SMN SMN] [RUN SMN SMN SMN SMN SMN]

Assuming Schah at 6-Man party got 2M HP:

250k HP X 12= 3M more + 2M= 5M HP for the full Alliance.


Taking 35K per Volt [Assuming perfect scenario of fully geared SMNs] 5M/35k= 143 Volts needed to down it.
143/13 SMNs= 11 Volts for each player.


3.5s X11 = 38.5s for each player to spam Volt


Add an extra second there and you're 39.5s


The probability of reset cannot be factored due to various reasons, I added an extra RUN for another 1HR.

You have a window of 9.5 Sec after AC Wears:

This:
and This:


Will become extremely critical during that window.

In conclusion, what Inx stated can be theoretically accurate:


----------------------------
Disclaimer: Automated Groups are not included because it dismisses the premise entirely since you can automate every single strat making the call for Nerf on AC/AF burn obsolete.
----------------------------

Also, it would be great if one of you claiming it can work with 18 put it to test.

"It might work if you switch the second RUN or GEO with SMN"

https://youtu.be/l0udClEjcds

Parse result at end shows 1,208,471 damage with 6. Given the killshot would overkill by some amount, packets get double sent frequently in zerg situations(does scoreboard account for this?) and we don't know if parse was reset after any trash mobs, we can reasonably assume schah has no more than ~200k/person.

You don't need theoreticals to figure out that a job with opportunity to do up to 15 BPs before touching apogee/revit/wc and an average BP damage of 25-30k is able to contribute 200k damage. Try harder. No automation, no perfect gameplay, just hitting your macro 8 times in 30 seconds. You people are utterly ridiculous, and it's obvious the only reason Katriina keeps posting is because of the drg thread butthurt.

If you need more proof, look at Phuoc's damage: 477,339. You only need to do 42% of his SMN's damage to pull your weight.

Wasn't there a claim before of generating 2M volts under 30s?

Also, I didn't even factor the margin of error/delay/lag even with /ignore pet which I'm assuming would add 10-15% probability of error/missing a window to VS.

Its not about trying harder, its about being realistic.
Also, a person that holds the claim needs to prove it not the other way around.

If initial HP of Schah is at 1.2M then theoretically you will still have around 5s Window without AC/RUN to down it.