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Yeah, spur of a moment response. Because I think your underlying point is correct but are also playing games to stack the deck on this argument just to put SMN and only SMN in the worst possible OP light, as someone already pointed out. It's really not worth the pain for me to go through it with you :)

Honestly I don't know why you'd want to. I've seen people try and zerg Schah and fail spectacularly more often than not. Whereas our tried and tested arrow-burn approach worked flawlessly outside of random f*ckery, like mass dc'ing.

Chancy zerg victories are not something that I find particularly aspirational, although I'm not one to deny people the option to go that route if they wish to.

A one size fits all zerg that requires less effort than any reasonable strategy doesn't mesh with the combat meta that SE has set up. Simple as.

So is this 1 person d/c on all their bots? See that more often now than a group or unlinked people all d/c same time.

We have a couple of dual-boxers, but honestly its fairly rare to have more than one of them in party at the same time, so typically any issue comes down to regional connectivity problems (we are mostly EU). I used mass dc because with Schah we always use 2 tanks, so there's a degree of fault-tolerance built in, probably should have used the term multiple dc's.

Mostly it's because I feel people defending SMN are underselling it by a lot.

2 tanks is fine for that one. One super tank 1 puller/tank rest focus on DD support etc. Was 2nd way I was able to get a win thanks to another ls than the one im in now. First was the SCH solo SC Blm MB strat. Both are just a lot more work, with more things going wrong. Having 1 or 2 toons d/c depending on their jobs can kill a pop, or have no bearing depending on when it happens.

We are past the era of measuring skills based on HELM domination..

Measure of skill currently should be based on other content.

Most people are just anxious for the next challenge.

This has nothing to do with strategies anymore it's about engaging yourself and having fun until the next content is released, which I'm sure is going to be AC Proof.. Don't worry pro-nerfers..

It's really easy to move past this mentally, but some have too much ego to let go of the blow to their epeen measured by Aeonic Weapons.. lol

Figured I'd throw my 2 cents into the pile of dribble you guys complain about on a daily basis. The problem is revits, not SMN. To further support this claim, this is why revits were nerfed in the beginning from Escha to begin with. This is also, in my opinion obviously, the only route SE could tackle without ruining the fundamentals of the job. SMN blowing things up with 2 hours has not been a strat people are unfamiliar with, but access to free resets of 2 hours has for a long time in general been taken advantage of. Not just SMN, but 99k warrior reso spam. Guaranteeing Wild Card to be active again for the middle of fights. Odyllic Subterfuge rotations to basically be untouchable by magic. The list goes on. I propose, if any nerf (would rather there be buffs elsewhere than nerfs), they need to add a medicine like debuff to all revits that lasts an hour +. This way SMN burns would at least be limited the amount of clears they could perform every hour.

It's to do with balance, not epeen. Aeonics haven't been 'hard' for 18-20 months. They're still more involved fights that require you to grasp the concepts of teamwork and preparation.. unless you go SMN. They might not be a good measure of skill, but we don't have anything better. If you allow aeonics to be SMN burned, you're basically saying that ffxi doesn't need any difficult content.

It's an interesting take but your logic falls as 1h are heavily used in pretty much any strategy both AC, melee or blm as you often need to speed up kill(the longer the mob is alive the more likely ***happens like WoC bene) or use strats faster than 1-2 sch allow you too without tabula. If you remove revit from game, you will add 45 mins wait for most strats and then people have to decide if they want to stick to 30 secs AC-burn or 15-30 mins potentially faily other strat. It would make the problem even worse.

No, it doesn't fail. Hence why I pointed out other situations of where revits are heavily abused. Let's stop pretending they only benefit one job. I mean it's enough you guys keep pretending none of you take advantage of fotm jobs.

It's not all we got ..

There is more to come..

Just ask Draylo...

No, you're saying it doesn't need any difficult aeonics. And it doesn't. None of the other legendary weapons are locked behind difficult content anymore and there's no reason to go backwards on Aeonics now.

How many more times do you wanna slog through the same NMs? wouldn't you rather they just add some less AC zerg friendly content instead?


Those same shells that merc SMN zergs would just level 15 cor mules. Hell, some people already do it even with the existence of revitalizers.

You guys are arguing extraordinary cases to validate nerfs. By your guys logic in this thread none of you even use SMNs to kill anything. Yet apparently it's a problem. How many people do you know with 15 cor mules? Name me 100.

There is no new content harder than Reisenjima T4. It's nothing to do with aeonics, if you remove all difficult content you don't have much of a game left. May as well go f2p and p2w.

Part of MMO design is progression, the process through which you advance your player knowledge and equipment to progress through tougher and tougher content until you can reach the top. This not only skips most of that progress, but makes the top more like a middle.

Sounds like a pastafarian wedding to me.

I'm really just trying to think of another angle to tackle this. I've never been about nerfs.

Pretty much any VD Intense Ambuscade is harder than the T4's now they've jacked up the amount of HP they have.

Escha content on the whole is pitched at a fairly accessible level, which makes sense as the loot is in many cases inferior to that from Omen. SU3 and the better Ambu pieces are even easier to acquire and they are often better than most Eschan wares.

The funny thing about Aeonics is that they range from great to straight-up useless. Naturally SMN and BST, the two jobs that have received the most stick over the content's life-span, are among those that benefit the least from a clear.

They're locked behind a rather lengthy tedious grind instead of difficulty. Y'know, because the content they're locked behind is 7+ years old.

Even with bead farming accounted for, you can still pump out Aeonics faster than you can any RME at little to no risk with SMN burns.

No one *likes* nerfs. They're almost universally hated by all. (well, I kinda like em but not as a player, I just love to know you're miserable, that's just how I roll). It's just that square has no other answers for anything.

Their toolbox has two options: Ignore, or "nerf the *** out of it" and well ignoring it doesn't work as an answer this time.

This argument can be obliterated out of existence once you realize that the same [AC Zerg] is evenly matched by someone with [8-10] packeted mules running scripts all over the place on HELMs ending them in few codes at the 3 min mark from [one screen/person] with minimum risk due to almost zero margin of error and demonstrably so.

Is there justice in that, probably not yet no one is actively asking SE to do something about these "abusers" that make the game equally trivial.

Simply put, people that care so much about the nerf fall under two categories:

1-Hardcore Players who are triggered by others that found the loophole (and hold a very valid stance).
2-Gil/RMT Sellers being shafted by mediocre players that steal their "clients".

The hypothesis that SE wants to keep more subscription coming like Ejin/Sidra stated by creating a loophole in one of the game main categories (Legendary weapons) can also be challenged since the weighted comparison is another easily obtained (Mind Numbing) REM with no risks whatsoever.

Arguing functionality is the core issue here not the moral aspects of the game simply because abuse is already present.

What Brixy proposed can be quite logical to fix this issue functionally and with almost no dimensioning returns to SMN.

Edit: Had to modify few words after noticing that not all of them can be called Epeen.

You obviously have a sore spot about me, since you keep bringing up [8-10] 'packeted' mules, whatever the hell 'packeted' is meant to mean.

That said, it's pretty obviously against the TOS to use automation to that extent and if bans were handed out for it, nobody would have any rational argument against that happening.

However, someone taking the time to gear [8-10] characters and create all the automation required to make them work effectively is not even in the same league as gearing a few SMNs.

I could clear a full aeonic using conduit SMN with only windower macros. Surely you aren't suggesting windower macros are also inappropriate..?

So which am I? There's no epeen left in aeonics and nobody on Leviathan is selling them with SMN burns.

Obviously I was demonstrating the parallels between your argument from a moral point of view and other ways of abuse that reflect it.

Nothing personal, its simply a flawed logic.

I would totally classify you as the first, based on my personal knowledge and I believe many can confirm my view on this over Leviathan.

In what world does other abuse justify something being abused? You could have pulled infinite gil out of the mog gardens box a couple years ago, so if another infinite gil exploit were to exist would it be A-Ok to leave that unpatched..?

There's no epeen involved, I've helped countless people who are complete noobs 'unworthy' of weapons, including your group.

Also, I've said countless times that they're trivial to any established group without SMN burns. The SMN burns are just allowing newer groups to completely skip the game's progression and *** flail through hardest content. If you don't understand why that's a bad thing, there's really not much to argue with you about. It's a model many games use, it's just not the one FFXI has traditionally had and it's much more akin to a mobile or pay-to-win game.

If you fail to recognize the demonstrated parallels under the umbrella of "abuse" then thats another issue that maybe you need to clearly look at.

Gil Sellers are making RL money out of this abuse, and it took many shapes and exploits during the history of this game.
Is it moral? debatable, since so many other games nowadays provide a way to profit financially from "Gaming" but according to SE TOS it is illegal.

Thanks for making my stance even clearer , you're not worthy of debate when resorting to this and at the same time claim moral high ground over how this game should be played.


FYI, we also carried players in Aeonic runs after we trained hard for it yet we don't call them noobs or hold Epeen Status!

And be honest with the "carrying us" , it was just WoC and Pixies during the first run ever.
At least try to call it as is.

I said I helped people. I didn't say I 'carried you'. I offered 20 minutes to clear a WoC after you'd been stuck on it for months, you took upwards of an hour because you had me use my 1hr buffs without even having a pop and tribulens ready. I'd say that some of those people were not ready to earn a weapon with a performance like that.

However, even recently, I've helped people both in and outside your group with stray clears they couldn't accomplish on their own. It's nothing personal, and some of them certainly did deserve weapons. But, if I were so invested in keeping my gear rare and so bothered by 'noobs' having things they didn't earn, why would I waste my time on that?

So far almost all of your arguments revolved around balancing and "abuse", hence my response.