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Dev Tracker - news, discussions
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-02 11:20:32  
Also, while I don't think BLU needs any further nerf and GEO at most needs a very slight frailty one, I'd be fine with throwing both of them under the bus to get SMN fixed. It's that bad.
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 Bismarck.Dekusutaa
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By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2017-11-02 11:27:17  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
a smn smn smn geo run cor party capable of killing schah in 30 seconds costs less gil total than 1 decent blu covering all of their sets and requires no meaningful amount of coordination

you are not living in reality, no other job is in extreme demand for high end content with only 1 set and no swaps
For that nm. Blus utility is great and can be slotted in different content playing different roles. That's my definition of perfect. Not your narrow epeen version.

Im not opposed to adjusting conduit as has been mentioned but the general sentiment from those calling for nerf is not reflective of that and not nuanced. Just a lot of crying and jobist hate.

And any smn worth their salt would have multiple gear swaps
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-02 11:37:14  
Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »
They just moved away from mobs that can be graved and kited. .
No that's what they should have done.

What they did was make a crap ton of nms that were either extremely resistant, flat out immune, or immune without immunobreak for all kinds of enfeebling magic.

People didn't stop bringing rdms to parties because they couldn't kite well anymore lol. Heck I'm the only rdm I know that would kite in parties... partly because I'm the only rdm I knew that would party with groups that would wipe lol. Ah good times... nm kills alliance in a couple of minutes then me kiting till weakness wears lol
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-02 11:39:34  
Not just that NM, all T4, WoC, tons of other stuff. SMN can kill nearly everything with minimal equipment, strategy, and player numbers. They don't need different roles when they have one so overpowered it destroys all others.

Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »
Im not opposed to adjusting conduit as has been mentioned but the general sentiment from those calling for nerf is not reflective of that and not nuanced. Just a lot of crying and jobist hate.
Nerfing conduit won't accomplish much if they still do so much BP damage that blowing through apogee/revit/rd/wildcard will still kill anything of note in 30 seconds. It's not that people want to see smn useless, it's that we need something more than just a conduit nerf to balance it. A consecutive BP nerf like the way BLM's bursts work would be great.

Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »
And any smn worth their salt would have multiple gear swaps
Anyone of any job worth their salt would have multiple gear swaps. However, using the vastly overpowered conduit zerg, you don't NEED them. You can fulltime a Volt Strike set and do just as well as everyone else. No other job can get away with that.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-02 11:52:44  
It remains to be seen how much content idynamis will actually be. Omen is a joke. I wouldn't recommend any sort of nerf to T4 until they have some real meat to replace it.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-11-02 11:54:38  
if they nerf smn, it just leaves pup as the remaining op pet class :(
 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2017-11-02 12:09:27  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
A consecutive BP nerf like the way BLM's bursts work would be great.

Yes.

I'd like to see it extended beyond BP as well. Gradual resistance when spamming the same WS (maybe could be based on WS properties) over and over, too. That might encourage more cooperative SC'ing and usage of different weapon types and secondary WSs.

IMO, the game is a lot more fun when people have to actually work together at a high level, instead of just facerolling wins.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-02 12:35:15  
Bring back level correction!
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2017-11-02 12:37:43  
Shiva.Arislan said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
A consecutive BP nerf like the way BLM's bursts work would be great.

Yes.

I'd like to see it extended beyond BP as well. Gradual resistance when spamming the same WS (maybe could be based on WS properties) over and over, too. That might encourage more cooperative SC'ing and usage of different weapon types and secondary WSs.

IMO, the game is a lot more fun when people have to actually work together at a high level, instead of just facerolling wins.

I can actually agree with that. That's reasonable.

Lower the damage of anything consecutive. I always thought there should be a punishment for same jobs in party too. If you go blu blu blu blu geo whm you should be penalized in some way. (example).

If you go with 3 smns then you get penalized etc. and damage lowered per repetitive volt strike.

I'm ok with enforced variety.
 Bismarck.Dekusutaa
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By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2017-11-02 12:48:46  
clearlyamule said: »
Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »
They just moved away from mobs that can be graved and kited. .
No that's what they should have done.

What they did was make a crap ton of nms that were either extremely resistant, flat out immune, or immune without immunobreak for all kinds of enfeebling magic.

People didn't stop bringing rdms to parties because they couldn't kite well anymore lol. Heck I'm the only rdm I know that would kite in parties... partly because I'm the only rdm I knew that would party with groups that would wipe lol. Ah good times... nm kills alliance in a couple of minutes then me kiting till weakness wears lol
Thats the other piece of it and it is what makes geo still unbalanced relative to rdm.

The grav kite bit i was referring to was specific to rdm doloing and duoing nms meant for group play.

You are right though that itv was a bit of a double whamny for rdm. When SE shifted to highly resistant mobs that also mitigated the old cheese chainspell stun strategies that was used to circumvente lot of mob gimmicks and mechanics
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-11-02 12:50:38  
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Oh they used to, they used to be the worst at nerfing things. SE learned their lesson by observing the long-term effects of super-nerfs and eventually settled on a far more moderate correction system.
I disagree. Even back in the RoZ days they rarely over-reacted. I won't say never... but most changes were extremely well-planned and worked. They've always struggled with balancing magic vs. physical, but that's understandable given that physical has always scaled linearly and magic exponentially.

And SMN doesn't need a supernerf, it just needs a Conduit nerf. SMN was an underdog for a good dozen years, please don't encourage them to nerf it back to irrelevance.

...

Read up on the RNG nerf, then on the TP nerf, and finally on the first BST nerf to get an idea on SE's idea of "nerfs".
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-11-02 13:12:16  
Asura.Syto said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Eleventh month of the year
Final fantasy ELEVEN
perfect time to release new content....

They are quite wittier than I imagined. And here I thought it just took a full year to get something released. This was planned the whole time

Obligatory eye roll

Resub

Thought you said you were quitting..

Welcome back Commander.


Was waiting until New content. I'll be back for the black and white zone stuff.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-11-02 13:19:50  
DirectX said: »
The game is already at the point already where tons of people have Aeonics and Escha and Omen gear gained through SMN spamming everything who otherwise wouldn't have been able to get the gear through skill. Is there much point in nerfing it now? For future content, sure, but might aswell leave it as a strat for the game for now.

Completely agree, it has been broken (and well known) since several months and a fix now would be just hurt casual players that are starting to get previously inaccessible gear thanks to the floored skill/effort barrier.

I like Arislan's idea on the gradual resistance to the same thing over and over. It would encourage job diversity and reward well-organized teams compared to spammers (maybe MNK would also find a use... ok, now i'm exaggerating)
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-11-02 13:27:36  
Asura.Saevel said: »
...

Read up on the RNG nerf, then on the TP nerf, and finally on the first BST nerf to get an idea on SE's idea of "nerfs".
You can stop talking to me like I wasn't around for those nerfs. Pretty sure I been around longer than you have, I don't recall seeing you in the Asura endgame scene back in the day. Your overall condescending attitude is one of the reasons I generally don't bother to engage you in debate.

The RNG nerf was bad. The TP nerf was good (you should not be able to get 80+ TP return from a weaponskill, that was dumb). The first BST nerf was... excessive but necessary and BST made a good recovery.

Overall their record has been great.
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 Phoenix.Brixy
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By Phoenix.Brixy 2017-11-02 13:35:13  
Summoner spams Volt strike and Flaming crush for a reason. Most of the other avatars are terrible for damage compared to Ifrit, Ramuh, and Garuda. Forcing summoner to swap avatars would be fine if most of them were not garbage. That also constantly resets the -bp delay from avatar's favor. Summoner just needs an entire rework honestly.

  • Change Conduit completely. Bloodpacts cost 0 mp to perform. Last 3 mins to mirror Astral Flow. Remove the 0 recast effect.

  • Apply the consecutive bloodpact nerf. (encourages use of multiple avatars which goes well with the fact that avatars can skillchain)

  • Buff all the bad avatars so they can compete with the big 3. Is it too much to ask for that they all receive a thunderspark equivalent? Probably too much to ask for a Flaming crush equivalent even though Volt strike sounds like a hybrid bp name.

  • Make the -bloodpact delay gained and favor potency from avatar's favor a fixed amount (this encourages avatar swapping)

  • Add a new ability "Avatar's Pressure". Basically a mirror of Avatar's Favor that gives your avatar a debuff aura instead of a buffing one. A unique effect like how geo bubbles work so it doesn't cockblock RDM. Avatar's Favor and Avatar's pressure overwrite each other. (this encourages the use of other avatars)

  • Either reduce the ward timer or give multiple charges to ward recast so avatars like Carbuncle can work better at supporting. The little squirrel is amazing, but he just can't keep up with a 20 second timer. Regen favor, multiple debuff removal, aoe heal, and enmity control with pacifying ruby. We could see the return of summoner healers (and actually be good at it this time!)

  • Give me Siren! >:(

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By Tarage 2017-11-02 13:40:14  
I hate so many of your ideas...
 Bismarck.Dekusutaa
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By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2017-11-02 13:53:12  
Love your idras brixy.

Reduced ward timerd would ve amazing with carby.
 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-11-02 14:03:49  
Phoenix.Brixy said: »
Summoner spams Volt strike and Flaming crush for a reason. Most of the other avatars are terrible for damage compared to Ifrit, Ramuh, and Garuda. Forcing summoner to swap avatars would be fine if most of them were not garbage. That also constantly resets the -bp delay from avatar's favor. Summoner just needs an entire rework honestly.

-Change Conduit completely. Bloodpacts cost 0 mp to perform. Last 3 mins to mirror Astral Flow. Remove the 0 recast effect.
-Apply the consecutive bloodpact nerf. (encourages use of multiple avatars which goes well with the fact that avatars can skillchain)
-Buff all the bad avatars so they can compete with the big 3. Is it too much to ask for that they all receive a thunderspark equivalent? Probably too much to ask for a Flaming crush equivalent even though Volt strike sounds like a hybrid bp name.
-Make the -bloodpact delay gained and favor potency from avatar's favor a fixed amount (this encourages avatar swapping)
-Add a new ability "Avatar's Pressure". Basically a mirror of Avatar's Favor that gives your avatar a debuff aura instead of a buffing one. A unique effect like how geo bubbles work, so it doesn't cockblock RDM. Avatar's Favor and Avatar's pressure overwrite each other. (this encourages the use of other avatars)
- Either reduce the ward timer or give multiple charges to ward recast so avatars like Carbuncle can work better at supporting. The little squirrel is amazing, but he just can't keep up with a 20 second timer. Regen favor, multiple debuff removal, aoe heal, and enmity control with pacifying ruby. We could see the return of summoner healers (and actually be good at it this time!)
-Give me Siren! >:(

- First option would be a run wild (bst) equivalent, not very good for a SP imo (considering BST gets a spam ready move right now, the equal to conduit but longer duration for less dmg)
- A second nerf on overal damage would hurt smn more than help, i could see either (nerf AC or dmg but not both), its like if you nerf resolution and warcry for a war at the same time.
- I agree on the third point, some pacts arent good really or need their effects booster (fenrir and diabolos buffs come to mind).
- I could see the fourth point too but again, they need to revamp somehow the other DD pacts, being able to DD with fenrir while applying buffs would be nice.
- The debuff aura is a great idea, if you are on a point where you can sacrifice recast on DD pacts for a potent debuff aura to lessen the pressure on the geo (say att down aura or something for the style), now this would be just awesome.
- Putting charges ala BST is also another great idea imo, this way as you said, you can do a great job with carby or do the buffing quite quick, i like this.
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By Tarage 2017-11-02 16:43:29  
Quite frankly this idea that people are getting things they "didn't earn" because people are using the path of least resistance is stupid. You pretend this game hasn't ALWAYS been about this ***. What was it before SMN? Remember Embrava? Remember SMN spamming Perfect Defense? Remember RNG all the things? Remember NIN tanking?

The game is how old now? How many times must we play this song and dance. Just because YOU don't like a strategy doesn't make it bad. If people are actually clearing things and getting gear then what's the problem? I feel like people are longing for the days of level 75 when ***took forever and a day. When AV was impossible to kill because it had so many *** gimmicks that no save group of people could pull them all off. When one person could screw up in Dynamis Windy and screw 18+ people out of gear. Did you enjoy those times? Really? Or are you just *** seeing the past through the thickest nostalgia glasses possible?

You nerf this, something else will be declared broken to fill it's place. Frankly the fact that we have a low barrier of entry for people to ACTUALLY GET the gear they want is far from a bad thing. You want a challenge? Nothing is preventing you from saying "*** SMN" and doing it without.

At some point you are going to have to realize that a game with 22 jobs is never going to be balanced. Not a 15 year old game with barely any devs working on it running on PS-***-2 technology. You want balance? You want dev support? Go play 14.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-02 16:52:54  
Tarage said: »
Quite frankly this idea that people are getting things they "didn't earn" because people are using the path of least resistance is stupid. You pretend this game hasn't ALWAYS been about this ***. What was it before SMN? Remember Embrava? Remember SMN spamming Perfect Defense? Remember RNG all the things? Remember NIN tanking?

The game is how old now? How many times must we play this song and dance. Just because YOU don't like a strategy doesn't make it bad. If people are actually clearing things and getting gear then what's the problem? I feel like people are longing for the days of level 75 when ***took forever and a day. When AV was impossible to kill because it had so many *** gimmicks that no save group of people could pull them all off. When one person could screw up in Dynamis Windy and screw 18+ people out of gear. Did you enjoy those times? Really? Or are you just *** seeing the past through the thickest nostalgia glasses possible?

You nerf this, something else will be declared broken to fill it's place. Frankly the fact that we have a low barrier of entry for people to ACTUALLY GET the gear they want is far from a bad thing. You want a challenge? Nothing is preventing you from saying "*** SMN" and doing it without.

At some point you are going to have to realize that a game with 22 jobs is never going to be balanced. Not a 15 year old game with barely any devs working on it running on PS-***-2 technology. You want balance? You want dev support? Go play 14.
found the smn

There are dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of online games that hand you everything you want just for putting a specific amount of time into them. FFXI has, for the most part, not been one of those. Many players like it that way.

When one strategy completely eclipses the others in both acquisition and execution, it's obviously not balanced. Maybe you want a game where you can thumb your *** while collecting loot, never having to think or strategize, but that's certainly not how everyone feels.

Maybe you're the one who should be going over to 14.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-11-02 16:56:46  
I like how this argument has been going on for like 6 months at this point and people still don't recognize that AC burn is OP on a whole different level compared to any other zerg in the history of the game. You can't even compare AC burns to any of your examples.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-02 17:04:00  
Wait wait wait. Ninja tanking? You mean /nin tanking right?

Because there is nothing wrong with a tank/dd job doing such and the only time it was every great so was rdm/nin and drk/nin lol
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-11-02 17:13:15  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
I like how this argument has been going on for like 6 months at this point and people still don't recognize that AC burn is OP on a whole different level compared to any other zerg in the history of the game. You can't even compare AC burns to any of your examples.

It's typically two categories of people, the first are the ones abusing the *** out of SMN AC spam, the second is people too disgusted at it's ease to use it. At what point does a games enjoyment cease having a meaning?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2017-11-02 17:15:42  
Send a group of 3 BLUs out with no more than 3 other members to support them in order to kill Schah... using nothing but a WS set, no gearswaps allowed. See if they can do it in 30 seconds and without any casualties.

I'll be waiting.
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 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-11-02 17:26:45  
Tarage said: »
Quite frankly this idea that people are getting things they "didn't earn" because people are using the path of least resistance is stupid. You pretend this game hasn't ALWAYS been about this ***. What was it before SMN? Remember Embrava? Remember SMN spamming Perfect Defense? Remember RNG all the things? Remember NIN tanking?

The game is how old now? How many times must we play this song and dance. Just because YOU don't like a strategy doesn't make it bad. If people are actually clearing things and getting gear then what's the problem? I feel like people are longing for the days of level 75 when ***took forever and a day. When AV was impossible to kill because it had so many *** gimmicks that no save group of people could pull them all off. When one person could screw up in Dynamis Windy and screw 18+ people out of gear. Did you enjoy those times? Really? Or are you just *** seeing the past through the thickest nostalgia glasses possible?

You nerf this, something else will be declared broken to fill it's place. Frankly the fact that we have a low barrier of entry for people to ACTUALLY GET the gear they want is far from a bad thing. You want a challenge? Nothing is preventing you from saying "*** SMN" and doing it without.

At some point you are going to have to realize that a game with 22 jobs is never going to be balanced. Not a 15 year old game with barely any devs working on it running on PS-***-2 technology. You want balance? You want dev support? Go play 14.

Sorry but AC burn is broken, i play smn and i've done 7 aeonics from start to finish with nothing but AC (4 where i got storage aeonics and others to help ppl) and nothing really compares to it really, what are the best albumen strat times 2 or 3 mins? and that's with very good DDs and a clusterfuck of support, with SMN takes 1 brd, 1 brd, 1 run and 3 smn with 1 outside cor doing 2 rolls and that's it really, odylic > AC > volt strike it to death with 0 risk, that's broken.

I dont want smn to get a nerfhammer like what happened with bst but it might happen sooner or later, all i can suggest is playing more jobs than SMN to open the spectrum of things you can do.
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By Tarage 2017-11-02 17:53:51  
Again, let me ask you, without AC, would anything get cleared for anyone? You talk about all these grand dreams of people forming super complex strategies but you fail to understand that the days of 18+ people being all on the same page have passed. Or are you oblivious to the current server populations.

Given the choice between only the elite being able to clear thing and a good chunk of the population, I pick the latter. Good luck with your whining though.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-02 17:59:00  
Tarage said: »
Again, let me ask you, without AC, would anything get cleared for anyone?
Absolutely.

Quote:
You talk about all these grand dreams of people forming super complex strategies but you fail to understand that the days of 18+ people being all on the same page have passed. Or are you oblivious to the current server populations.
Every T4 has been killed with 9 or less, most have been killed with 6 or less. Population isn't an excuse.

Quote:
Given the choice between only the elite being able to clear thing and a good chunk of the population, I pick the latter. Good luck with your whining though.
Given the choice between only people who've taken the time to skill, gear, and learn their jobs being able to clear things and allowing anyone who threw their visa at an apogee set and a nirvana to clear things, I pick the first option.
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 Leviathan.Stamos
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By Leviathan.Stamos 2017-11-02 18:18:54  
Not sure why people would enjoy trivializing some of the most difficult fights in the game. Essentially playing the game with a game genie/shark for the best gear. Personally I do not find that fun at all.
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 Asura.Cair
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By Asura.Cair 2017-11-02 18:23:51  
Imagine if people actually had to think about how to kill something... Would anything ever get cleared for anyone ever?!
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