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Gunmen storm office of satirical magazine in Paris
Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 13:55:50
Cerberus.Spirachub said: »I find it quite difficult to understand why people, in this day and age, still believe in religion. It's clearly a very old form of propaganda, and people still fall for it.
Unless science can resurrect a dead person and have that person tell us "No, afterlife doesn't exist.", religion will exist.
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 13:57:52
Cerberus.Spirachub said: »I find it quite difficult to understand why people, in this day and age, still believe in religion. It's clearly a very old form of propaganda, and people still fall for it.
Unless science can resurrect a dead person and have that person tell us "No, afterlife doesn't exist.", religion will exist.
Even if they found a way it wouldn't matter. "Believers" would just call them liars or heretics or say they weren't worthy or...something idiotic.
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Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 14:02:39
Cerberus.Spirachub said: »I find it quite difficult to understand why people, in this day and age, still believe in religion. It's clearly a very old form of propaganda, and people still fall for it.
Unless science can resurrect a dead person and have that person tell us "No, afterlife doesn't exist.", religion will exist.
Even if they found a way it wouldn't matter. "Believers" would just call them liars or heretics or say they weren't worthy or...something idiotic.
If science can disprove religion, then "believers" won't exist. But it can't disprove religion, that's why believers have something to say!
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 14:03:55
If science can disprove religion, then "believers" won't exist. But it can't disprove religion, that's why believers have something to say!
Science disproves ridiculous claims all the time and people still make them and believe in them.
Look at radiocarbon dating vs. creationists. -.-;
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Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 14:11:42
Science disproves ridiculous claims all the time and people still make them and believe in them.
Say if I claim unicorn exists in this world, can science prove me wrong? Science simply isn't the solution to everything.
サーバ: Lakshmi
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Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-09 14:15:45
Science disproves ridiculous claims all the time and people still make them and believe in them.
Say if I claim unicorn exists in this world, can science prove me wrong? Science simply isn't the solution to everything.
If you claim a unicorn exists, you'd best have evidence or we'll simply file you in with the other crazies on this planet.
Burden of proof is on the person making a claim.
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 14:16:40
Science disproves ridiculous claims all the time and people still make them and believe in them.
Say if I claim unicorn exists in this world, can science prove me wrong? Science simply isn't the solution to everything.
The mythical species? Biology can pretty handily say they don't exist now. There are theories that the mythical creature has a historical basis in now-extinct species (or even a very warped description of a current species or its ancestor), but that's not known at this time.
Science is the solution to everything. Whether we understand it yet or not.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-09 14:19:29
There are old wives tales of krakens and other large cephalopods that turned out to be based on facts but guess what? People had to put in work looking for said creatures, find sperm whales with scars and do decades of study to actually find.... giant squid.
Claim there is a giant squid and you'd best provide proof.
This is typically why all religion when distilled boils down to some level of faith which explicitly involves the supernatural which can never be proven by human senses.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 13650
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-09 14:21:07
Oh boy, are we doing science vs. religion again, or is it just a battle between the chips on opposing shoulders?
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サーバ: Asura
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Posts: 4307
By Asura.Ackeronll 2015-01-09 14:22:07
Haven't checked this thread at all. Finally do today and it's talking about Unicorns.
3 Crazy nut jobs killed 16 people and the argument turns to unicorns.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-01-09 14:24:07
Oh boy, are we doing science vs. religion again, or is it just a battle between the chips on opposing shoulders? Chips.
サーバ: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-09 14:25:17
Oh boy, are we doing science vs. religion again, or is it just a battle between the chips on opposing shoulders?
Don't you dare mention chips without providing. Corn chips 'n salsa pls.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 13650
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-09 14:29:40
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Oh boy, are we doing science vs. religion again, or is it just a battle between the chips on opposing shoulders?
Don't you dare mention chips without providing. Corn chips 'n salsa pls.
Fine, but first I've got to prepare the corn chips for battle.
By Bloodrose 2015-01-09 14:31:45
Corn chips in a jalapeno cheddar dip
By Bloodrose 2015-01-09 14:32:12
EPIC CORN CHIP BATTLES OF HISTORY!
Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 14:56:43
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Science disproves ridiculous claims all the time and people still make them and believe in them.
Say if I claim unicorn exists in this world, can science prove me wrong? Science simply isn't the solution to everything.
If you claim a unicorn exists, you'd best have evidence or we'll simply file you in with the other crazies on this planet.
Burden of proof is on the person making a claim.
If I claim unicorn exists, whether someone else want to believe it or not is entirely their choice. Some ppl may believe it, some may not. But unless science can prove it doesn't exist, you can't stop every human being to believe in my claim.
Same applies to religion, god and afterlife.
Science disproves ridiculous claims all the time and people still make them and believe in them.
Say if I claim unicorn exists in this world, can science prove me wrong? Science simply isn't the solution to everything.
The mythical species? Biology can pretty handily say they don't exist now. There are theories that the mythical creature has a historical basis in now-extinct species (or even a very warped description of a current species or its ancestor), but that's not known at this time.
Can you find me a link to a research that can prove uniorn doesn't exist? AFAIK all we have now is "we haven't seen one", that's not the same as proving it doesn't exist using scientific ways.
Science is the solution to everything. Whether we understand it yet or not.
Spiracub asked a question, and I simply answers it. If science is really the solution to everything whether we understand it yet or not, then we'll have a world without religion. But the fact is, religion still exists, that proves science isn't the solution to everything.
By Pantafernando 2015-01-09 15:06:37
I dont think its religion.
Its all part of a project of power some minority uses to repress people through fear.
People who do those massacres does not do for faith or religion either. Its called brainwash. I would bet my money they dont even have a clue of what their religion really preach. Afterall, all religions always seek peace for men. Just a distorted person can distort religion principles to his own needs.
Kinda like socialism and comunism. Socialism distort comunism to justify dictatorship, to rule by fear and by having people in the ignorance.
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 15:07:46
If I claim unicorn exists, whether someone else want to believe it or not is entirely their choice. Some ppl may believe it, some may not. But unless science can prove it doesn't exist, you can't stop every human being to believe in my claim.
Same applies to religion, god and afterlife.
I never argued you were wrong. What I'm saying is that some people will believe even in the face of proof against their belief.
. But the fact is, religion still exists, that proves science isn't the solution to everything.
See above. People will believe what they want in the face of a fact that doesn't appeal to them. Humans are not always rational creatures. And because we can't use science to explain everything -- with an answer they want -- right now, that simply means there are answers we haven't found. Not that there aren't scientific answers out there.
Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 15:12:15
I dont think its religion.
Its all part of a project of power some minority uses to repress people through fear.
People who do those massacres does not do for faith or religion either. Its called brainwash. I would bet my money they dont even have a clue of what their religion really preach. Afterall, all religions always seek peace for men. Just a distorted person can distort religion principles to his own needs.
Kinda like socialism and comunism. Socialism distort comunism to justify dictatorship, to rule by fear and by having people in the ignorance.
IMO, without the power of religion it's not that easy to toss away life to do such thing. Say I can brainwash a kid and tell him to do a suicide attack, it won't be very easy. Fearing death is human nature, so most likely he can't overcome his human nature and sacrifice his life.
But if he believes in afterlife, then it's a different story.
By Pantafernando 2015-01-09 15:14:22
Not to mention ive been seeing french politician using this lame episode to political to their own cause like againts imigrants.
Maybe we are too far from heaven anyway.
No god can fix humans.
Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 15:17:18
See above. People will believe what they want in the face of a fact that doesn't appeal to them. Humans are not always rational creatures. And because we can't use science to explain everything -- with an answer they want -- right now, that simply means there are answers we haven't found. Not that there aren't scientific answers out there.
If science really is the solution to everything, then the answer it provides SHOULD be the answer we all have to accept, whether we want it or not.
Regarding the bolded statement, it actually needs quite a bit of faith itself to make, lol. I'm not sure if science can ever resurrect a dead person and disprove afterlife, and I don't have as much faith as you do XD.
By Pantafernando 2015-01-09 15:19:51
I dont think its religion.
Its all part of a project of power some minority uses to repress people through fear.
People who do those massacres does not do for faith or religion either. Its called brainwash. I would bet my money they dont even have a clue of what their religion really preach. Afterall, all religions always seek peace for men. Just a distorted person can distort religion principles to his own needs.
Kinda like socialism and comunism. Socialism distort comunism to justify dictatorship, to rule by fear and by having people in the ignorance.
IMO, without the power of religion it's not that easy to toss away life to do such thing. Say I can brainwash a kid and tell him to do a suicide attack, it won't be very easy. Fearing death is human nature, so most likely he can't overcome his human nature and sacrifice his life.
But if he believes in afterlife, then it's a different story.
Afterlife isnt a reason to suicide.
We often see episodes in usa of unstable people that goes to kill his own people then commit suicide.
You dont need to overcome fear to death to commit suicide. You just need to disregard your own life to commit that. Unstable people, guided by those lies, will do what the manipulator decides.
Human being is that fragile. Those terrorist arent recruited openly, because it isnt anyone who can be brainwashed.
Those people who killed the charlies staff had already a troublesome behaviour. Changing them to extremist terrorist should be piece of cake to their brainwashers.
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 15:23:34
See above. People will believe what they want in the face of a fact that doesn't appeal to them. Humans are not always rational creatures. And because we can't use science to explain everything -- with an answer they want -- right now, that simply means there are answers we haven't found. Not that there aren't scientific answers out there.
If science really is the solution to everything, then the answer it provides SHOULD be the answer we all have to accept, whether we want it or not.
Regarding the bolded statement, it actually needs quite a bit of faith itself to make, lol. I'm not sure if science can ever resurrect a dead person and disprove afterlife, and I don't have as much faith as you do XD.
It doesn't require "faith" to believe in that bolded statement. We have physics. We know how physics works. We know that when physics doesn't work how we expect it to, there are other forces at play even though we can't see them.
Just because we can't perceive an answer right this moment doesn't mean there isn't an answer out there, or that we'll never perceive it.
As far as science providing answers we SHOULD all accept, there are things for which that's already the case and people deny the answers. Because it isn't the answer that they want.
Bahamut.Ravael
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Posts: 13650
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-09 15:28:30
As far as science providing answers we SHOULD all accept, there are things for which that's already the case and people deny the answers. Because it isn't the answer that they want.
Even as a religious person, that one gets to me. For example, anytime I read something from young earth creationists my eyes just glaze over and a facepalm is never far off.
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Bahamut.Omael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 400
By Bahamut.Omael 2015-01-09 15:29:34
Depends on the god.
Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2015-01-09 15:37:23
Afterlife isnt a reason to suicide.
We often see episodes in usa of unstable people that goes to kill his own people then commit suicide.
Those ppl have no will to live to begin with and they don't commit crime because they're "brainwashed", that's a different situation. If you try to brainwash someone to do crime and toss away their life, you have to somehow make them feel like it's ok not to live.
It doesn't require "faith" to believe in that bolded statement. We have physics. We know how physics works. We know that when physics doesn't work how we expect it to, there are other forces at play even though we can't see them.
Just because we can't perceive an answer right this moment doesn't mean there isn't an answer out there, or that we'll never perceive it.
Assuming science can eventually find the answer needs quite a bit of faith though, lol. What if the missing answer really doesn't exist? Even then you still believe in science? I guess science is a religion itself.
Valefor.Sehachan
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Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-09 15:59:26
Science doesn't mean faith, it means to never stop questioning and research.
By Pantafernando 2015-01-09 15:59:56
Depends on the god.

Religion claims humans are childs son/daugther.
But all children resemble their father/mother.
So if god is perfect, why are we humans not perfect, if we are children of god?
And why were we throwed in human realm instead of gods realm?
Is it because we are imperfect?
But if a father/mother is supose to love their breed regarding any defect/problem, why were we punished into the humans realm if our only sin is to be imperfect, incomplete?
Would you throw your son in a jail just because he has sindrom of down, for example? Not, we are supose to love him regardless his problem. But god does not agree with that, and seeing his own son diferent of himself, decided he wasnt worthy to be by his side, throwing us in a land were struggle in ignorance and pain, we pay for other decision, and have no hope to ascend to god realm.
The only real answer, in the end, is that we should hold our convictions and life for our own, not for other. Live in peace, if you are unable to find the paradise in gods realm, the knowledge and virtue will build our own paradise in humans realm.
Bahamut.Omael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 400
By Bahamut.Omael 2015-01-09 16:46:29
I posted a Bender picture as a joke, and I get some spiritual gobbledygook in response. What the hell did I step in, and how to I get it off?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 13650
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-09 16:54:03
But if a father/mother is supose to love their breed regarding any defect/problem, why were we punished into the humans realm if our only sin is to be imperfect, incomplete?
Would you throw your son in a jail just because he has sindrom of down, for example? Not, we are supose to love him regardless his problem. But god does not agree with that, and seeing his own son diferent of himself, decided he wasnt worthy to be by his side, throwing us in a land were struggle in ignorance and pain, we pay for other decision, and have no hope to ascend to god realm.
Is there a particular religion that you're referring to that holds such views?
On today's episode of P&R we take a trip to France.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/1/7/at-least-10-deadinshootingatparissatiricalmagazine.html
Quote: Gunmen stormed the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in central Paris on Wednesday, leaving at least 12 people dead and sparking a massive manhunt for the killers.
Clad all in black with hoods and machine guns and speaking flawless French, the three attackers, who are now believed to be on the run, forced one of the publication's cartoonists, Corinne Rey, who was at the office with her young daughter, to open the door. In an interview with the newspaper L'Humanité, she said the entire shooting, which left 10 journalists and two police officers dead, lasted about five minutes.
Staff members of the magazine, which has courted controversy and the offense of some Muslims for publishing cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, were in an editorial meeting at the time. The gunmen headed straight for the paper's editor, Stéphane Charbonnier — widely known by his pen name, Charb — killing him and his police bodyguard, said Christophe Crepin, a police union spokesman on the scene.
Minutes later, gunmen were seen walking to a black car waiting below, calmly firing on a police officer, with one of the killers shooting him in the head as he writhed on the ground.
"Hey! We avenged the Prophet Muhammad! We killed Charlie Hebdo," one of the men shouted, according to a video shot from a nearby building and broadcast on French television. The video could not immediately be confirmed by Al Jazeera.
Large numbers of police and ambulances rushed to the scene, where shocked residents spilled into the streets. Reporters also saw bullet-riddled windows and people being carried out on stretchers.
Bernard Cazeneuve, France's interior minister, vowed to "track down the three criminals." He added that "all of our resources will be mobilized so that we can find out who committed this act and make sure they are punished for this act of barbarity." French authorities have said that all school trips and outdoor activities have been canceled while the gunmen are at large.
French President François Hollande headed to the scene shortly after Wednesday's shooting and said that the dead were "cowardly assassinated" and that four others were critically injured. He described the shooting as a "terrorist operation against a newspaper that has been threatened several times." He added that 40 people were being protected in the aftermath of the shooting.
Charlie Hebdo as drawn repeated threats for its caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, among other controversial features. The newspaper's offices were firebombed in 2011 after a spoof issue featuring a caricature of Muhammad on its cover.
A year later, the magazine published more Muhammad drawings amid an uproar over an anti-Muslim film. The cartoons depicted Muhammad naked and in demeaning or pornographic poses. The French government defended free speech even as it rebuked Charlie Hebdo for fanning tensions.
"We treat the news like journalists. Some use cameras. Some use computers. For us, it's a paper and pencil," the Muhammad cartoonist, who goes by the name Luz, told The Associated Press in 2012. "A pencil is not a weapon. It's just a means of expression."
Charbonnier, among the 10 journalists killed Wednesday, also defended the Muhammad cartoons.
He told Le Monde newspaper two years ago, "I'd rather die standing than live on my knees." One of his last cartoons, published in this week's issue, seemed an eerie premonition. "Still no attacks in France," an extremist fighter says. "Wait — we have until the end of January to present our New Year's wishes."
The attack, for which no one has yet claimed responsibility, comes amid what a number of commentators have identified as rising xenophobia in Europe, with thousands of protesters in several German cities rallying earlier this week against Muslim immigration. France's Muslim population of 5 million is Europe's largest.
"I am extremely angry. These are criminals, barbarians. They have sold their soul to hell. This is not freedom. This is not Islam, and I hope the French will come out united at the end of this," said Hassen Chalghoumi, imam of the Drancy mosque in Paris' Seine-St.-Denis northern suburb.
New York–based advocacy group the Committee to Protect Journalists condemned what its deputy director, Robert Mahoney, called "a brazen assault on free expression in the heart of Europe."
I fear this will only continue to stir the growing xenophobia in Europe against Muslims worldwide. People can keep saying this 'isn't their Islam' but the extremists are the ones dominating the court of public opinion and that can only spell disaster.
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