Blazed1979 said: »
"both men were deeply religious and moralistic"
That would suggest that there are varying degrees of "religious"ness...
That would suggest that there are varying degrees of "religious"ness...
Gunmen Storm Office Of Satirical Magazine In Paris
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Gunmen storm office of satirical magazine in Paris
Gunmen storm office of satirical magazine in Paris
That was an example sentence using the word, you dolt. Have you never seen a dictionary before?
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Urban Dictionary
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
"both men were deeply religious and moralistic"
That would suggest that there are varying degrees of "religious"ness...
That would suggest that there are varying degrees of "religious"ness...
Bye troll.
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You've said goodbye to several people and yet you won't stop posting to us. Please stop with all the lies, it offends Allah.
And I'm not trolling. You really are too genuinely ignorant to detect the glaring flaws in your arguments.
And I'm not trolling. You really are too genuinely ignorant to detect the glaring flaws in your arguments.
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Blazed1979 said: »
"both men were deeply religious and moralistic"
That would suggest that there are varying degrees of "religious"ness...
Asking someone where they place the term "religious" in terms of measure is founded. It is relative, which is what I went through the effort to explain but it seems you just want to be difficult.
That would suggest that there are varying degrees of "religious"ness...
Asking someone where they place the term "religious" in terms of measure is founded. It is relative, which is what I went through the effort to explain but it seems you just want to be difficult.
Accidentally religious
Always religious
Angrily religious
Anxiously religious
Awkwardly religious
Badly religious
Blindly religious
Boastfully religious
Boldly religious
Bravely religious
Brightly religious
Cheerfully religious
Coyly religious
Crazily religious
Defiantly religious
Deftly religious
Deliberately religious
Devotedly religious
Doubtfully religious
Dramatically religious
Dutifully religious
Eagerly religious
Elegantly religious
Enormously religious
Evenly religious
Eventually religious
Exactly religious
Faithfully religious
Finally religious
Foolishly religious
Fortunately religious
Frantically religious
Frequently religious
Gleefully religious
Gracefully religious
Happily religious
Hastily religious
Honestly religious
Hopelessly religious
Hourly religious
Hungrily religious
Innocently religious
Inquisitively religious
Irritably religious
Jealously religious
Justly religious
Kindly religious
Lazily religious
Loosely religious
Madly religious
Merrily religious
Mortally religious
Mysteriously religious
Nervously religious
Never religious
Obediently religious
Obnoxiously religious
Occasionally religious
Often religious
Only religious
Perfectly religious
Politely religious
Poorly religious
Powerfully religious
Promptly religious
Quickly religious
Rapidly religious
Rarely religious
Really religious
Regularly religious
Rudely religious
Safely religious
Seldom religious
Selfishly religious
Seriously religious
Shakily religious
Sharply religious
Silently religious
Slowly religious
Solemnly religious
Sometimes religious
Speedily religious
Steadily religious
Sternly religious
Technically religious
Tediously religious
Tenderly religious
Terrifically religious
Tightly religious
Totally religious
Tremendously religious
Unexpectedly religious
Usually religious
Victoriously religious
Vivaciously religious
Warmly religious
Wearily religious
Weekly religious
Wildly religious
Yearly religious
Amazingly enough, there are almost as many flavors of religious as there are adverbs. I wonder why.
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
God. Damnit. Milamber.
Blazed1979 said: »
Insanity?
So many claim to appreciate science yet they keep choosing the same methodology for "progress" when the results haven't been stellar.
I think deep down inside they're just fooling themselves into thinking they're democratic and believe in equal rights. As soon as they encounter cultures that are different than theirs', out goes the equality, out goes the civility, out goes the respect.
Fail fail fail.
I mean... how insane is it that they are demonizing a religion, of which accounts for 2% of terrorist attacks, after they hosted the bloodiest wars in all of history?
give me a break lol
So many claim to appreciate science yet they keep choosing the same methodology for "progress" when the results haven't been stellar.
I think deep down inside they're just fooling themselves into thinking they're democratic and believe in equal rights. As soon as they encounter cultures that are different than theirs', out goes the equality, out goes the civility, out goes the respect.
Fail fail fail.
I mean... how insane is it that they are demonizing a religion, of which accounts for 2% of terrorist attacks, after they hosted the bloodiest wars in all of history?
give me a break lol
"I *** love Science" to me refers to this kid reading an encyclopedia when he has an age made of a single digit and going to see his parents to ask them for more. It's not about fapping at lunch over some HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE article that isn't even about Science. I don't have the example that made me understand that anymore but said page is full of it.
So careful not to mistake those two kinds of people.
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
They have made similar cartoons about Christianity and Judiaism so...
This is a double standard that keeps being confirmed every year, including following the incident that this thread is based on.
Just because they made one drawing "against" Judaism years ago doesn't really mean much compared to the excessive hate toward Christianity and Islam that has been the trend in the West for a long time now (following 1991).
This has been discussed by Putin and one of the government ministers. The problem isn't that only specific religions are mocked, the problem is that when you mock one of them, and only this one, you get troubles, whereas the other ones are seen as fair game, freedom of speech and so on.
Double standard has to go.
Either you don't insult religions at all (Russia), or you insult them all without ANY differences and brace for consequences (I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3).
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
The issue being that Siné was fired for talking about Jews, at all, in an interview outside the journal's life.
This is a double standard that keeps being confirmed every year, including following the incident that this thread is based on.
Just because they made one drawing "against" Judaism years ago doesn't really mean much compared to the excessive hate toward Christianity and Islam that has been the trend in the West for a long time now (following 1991).
This has been discussed by Putin and one of the government ministers. The problem isn't that only specific religions are mocked, the problem is that when you mock one of them, and only this one, you get troubles, whereas the other ones are seen as fair game, freedom of speech and so on.
Double standard has to go.
Either you don't insult religions at all (Russia), or you insult them all without ANY differences and brace for consequences (I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3).
This is a double standard that keeps being confirmed every year, including following the incident that this thread is based on.
Just because they made one drawing "against" Judaism years ago doesn't really mean much compared to the excessive hate toward Christianity and Islam that has been the trend in the West for a long time now (following 1991).
This has been discussed by Putin and one of the government ministers. The problem isn't that only specific religions are mocked, the problem is that when you mock one of them, and only this one, you get troubles, whereas the other ones are seen as fair game, freedom of speech and so on.
Double standard has to go.
Either you don't insult religions at all (Russia), or you insult them all without ANY differences and brace for consequences (I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3).
Judaism is mocked and poked in the US, frequently by Jewish comedians and cartoonists. I would say Islam is the least mocked and poked religion because of this fear of reprisal.
US Jewish Cartoonist
There are plenty of holocaust denier groups that are active in the US and they print many cartoons. Here is a holocaust satire site
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
(I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3)
Considering there's a ridiculously small population of Jews anywhere in the world outside of the US, Israel, and parts of Europe, it's hardly shocking they're the lowest on the list. And there's residual guilt from, you know, being wholesale slaughtered during our grandparents' lifetime. But I've heard a fair share of jokes at the expense of Jews here in the US.
You have to move in the right circles. Comedy in general, both stand-up comedy and slightly more old school film/television, tends to have a lot of it, if only because of a curious preponderance of representation in the career. People living near a major population, like New York City or Washington, DC (I think?), will mock them more. For someone living in Bumfuck, Idaho, they may never have encountered a Jew nor do they have a particular reason to have a beef with them since they've probably never encountered a Palestinian, either.
Actually, know who tends to make fun of Jews the most here in the States? Jews. The self-deprecating (or self-hating, as case may be) Jew is a very real phenomenon.
But it's a numbers game. No one in the mainstream US really had much to say about Islam except for an occasional Nation of Islam joke (which was more about anti-black sentiment) until the first attack on the World Trade Center. This was helped by the population of Muslims being not as high. With many refugees and immigrants coming here, though, even in spite of growing prejudice, things have changed.
I note you didn't mention anyone making fun of Hindus. I used to live in a city with a major Indian population and you live across the Channel from a country with a large population of Indians. Have you never heard the jokes made at their expense? Granted, they're as often about Indian culture as the Hindu religion, but the two are fairly intertwined, anyhow, not unlike certain aspects of Islam and Arabian culture.
Anyone know any good Shinto jokes? Oh, right, Japan's native religion is too low key to bother anyone outside the homeland. Go figure.
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
The issue being that Siné was fired for talking about Jews, at all, in an interview outside the journal's life.
This is a double standard that keeps being confirmed every year, including following the incident that this thread is based on.
Just because they made one drawing "against" Judaism years ago doesn't really mean much compared to the excessive hate toward Christianity and Islam that has been the trend in the West for a long time now (following 1991).
This has been discussed by Putin and one of the government ministers. The problem isn't that only specific religions are mocked, the problem is that when you mock one of them, and only this one, you get troubles, whereas the other ones are seen as fair game, freedom of speech and so on.
Double standard has to go.
Either you don't insult religions at all (Russia), or you insult them all without ANY differences and brace for consequences (I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3).
This is a double standard that keeps being confirmed every year, including following the incident that this thread is based on.
Just because they made one drawing "against" Judaism years ago doesn't really mean much compared to the excessive hate toward Christianity and Islam that has been the trend in the West for a long time now (following 1991).
This has been discussed by Putin and one of the government ministers. The problem isn't that only specific religions are mocked, the problem is that when you mock one of them, and only this one, you get troubles, whereas the other ones are seen as fair game, freedom of speech and so on.
Double standard has to go.
Either you don't insult religions at all (Russia), or you insult them all without ANY differences and brace for consequences (I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3).
Judaism is mocked and poked in the US, frequently by Jewish comedians and cartoonists. I would say Islam is the least mocked and poked religion because of this fear of reprisal.
US Jewish Cartoonist
There are plenty of holocaust denier groups that are active in the US and they print many cartoons.
Well, here it's the same but about Jewish. People mocking Islam do not fear reprisals when it comes to them specifically, but they do fear being put in jail as soon as they make the slightest joke about Jewish people.
It's like, prison or fines have more impact than death threats.
As for condemning, I haven't checked as I don't have access to French documents right now but when I left on Monday, Valls and Hollande still gave 0 ***about said condemnations and were still very serious about following the same double standard policy.
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
People mocking Islam do not fear reprisals when it comes to them specifically, but they do fear being put in jail as soon as they make the slightest joke about Jewish people.
No, not Ted Nugent. Not in this instance, anyhow.
Here is one article on France's free speech stance
France shares its new reverance for free speech by arresting comedian
France shares its new reverance for free speech by arresting comedian
Quote:
Dieudonné's views may be offensive, ridiculous or despicable, but it's much more offensive, ridiculous and despicable to have him arrested for a comment on Facebook. And, it's even more ridiculous to do it when his comment concerns the way people were expressing support for freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
...
Hey, France, I don't quite think you're getting the message. "I support free speech... so long as it is free speech that I sort of agree with" kind of misses the point. The views of some of these people expressing support for killers or terrorists or hatred towards certain types of people is speech that I find, personally, to be despicable. But those expressing it should be allowed to express it -- broadcasting their own confusion and ignorance to the world, and allowing others to counter that speech. Arresting people based on their speech only reinforces the ridiculous idea that they've come upon some truth or that they're speaking "truth to power." They're not. They're speaking nonsense, but in a free society we allow nonsense to be spoken.
...
Hey, France, I don't quite think you're getting the message. "I support free speech... so long as it is free speech that I sort of agree with" kind of misses the point. The views of some of these people expressing support for killers or terrorists or hatred towards certain types of people is speech that I find, personally, to be despicable. But those expressing it should be allowed to express it -- broadcasting their own confusion and ignorance to the world, and allowing others to counter that speech. Arresting people based on their speech only reinforces the ridiculous idea that they've come upon some truth or that they're speaking "truth to power." They're not. They're speaking nonsense, but in a free society we allow nonsense to be spoken.
Forgot:
xenoglossically religious
zealously religious
xenoglossically religious
zealously religious
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
(I don't know if there is a country that does attack Judaism as much as Christianity and Islam are attacked, while attacking all 3)
Considering there's a ridiculously small population of Jews anywhere in the world outside of the US, Israel, and parts of Europe, it's hardly shocking they're the lowest on the list. And there's residual guilt from, you know, being wholesale slaughtered during our grandparents' lifetime. But I've heard a fair share of jokes at the expense of Jews here in the US.
You have to move in the right circles. Comedy in general, both stand-up comedy and slightly more old school film/television, tends to have a lot of it, if only because of a curious preponderance of representation in the career. People living near a major population, like New York City or Washington, DC (I think?), will mock them more. For someone living in Bumfuck, Idaho, they may never have encountered a Jew nor do they have a particular reason to have a beef with them since they've probably never encountered a Palestinian, either.
Actually, know who tends to make fun of Jews the most here in the States? Jews. The self-deprecating (or self-hating, as case may be) Jew is a very real phenomenon.
But it's a numbers game. No one in the mainstream US really had much to say about Islam except for an occasional Nation of Islam joke (which was more about anti-black sentiment) until the first attack on the World Trade Center. This was helped by the population of Muslims being not as high. With many refugees and immigrants coming here, though, even in spite of growing prejudice, things have changed.
I note you didn't mention anyone making fun of Hindus. I used to live in a city with a major Indian population and you live across the Channel from a country with a large population of Indians. Have you never heard the jokes made at their expense? Granted, they're as often about Indian culture as the Hindu religion, but the two are fairly intertwined, anyhow, not unlike certain aspects of Islam and Arabian culture.
Anyone know any good Shinto jokes? Oh, right, Japan's native religion is too low key to bother anyone outside the homeland. Go figure.
I personally was more interested in learning how they think and their customs than anything else, so I've missed out on that I guess.
Regarding Jews mocking themselves, yes, it's the same in France actually (I'll only mention Gad Elmaleh as others are questionable), but it has nothing to do with what Charlie Hebdo does.
You have 3 different movements. The first one is the one followed by your average stand up comedian and is overall flat as ***. It's good for a quick laugh and some might even make you think, but that's not the point here. The second is what Dieudonné does, which goes much deeper and tries to make you think, a lot, while using special jokes, this kind of humour is borderline at best, but some people may find it offensive at times (I don't know which, though, but the law found offensive content). Third is Charlie Hebdo tier, which is something you will not see from a stand up comedian or a Dieudonné.
Now, at the end of the day, only law dictates what is offensive and what is not, so what I say is obviously subjective. But, objectively, it is just not possible to put these 3 different levels in the same basket. They all have different goals and builds.
We're talking about people who are comedians and others who are here to offend, not to joke around. The difference has to be acknowledged.
As for the Jew obsession well, ***, it's literally part of the topic. Can't you stop acting like a 12 years old from time to time and keep your answer 100% relevant? Pretty sure you don't need that 10% of childishness. How do you want people to take you seriously when you do so? I've been asking that question since the last time, glad to see you improved since then.
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
People mocking Islam do not fear reprisals when it comes to them specifically, but they do fear being put in jail as soon as they make the slightest joke about Jewish people.
No, not Ted Nugent. Not in this instance, anyhow.
You guys are too busy adding taxes to your prices to worry about what I mentioned.
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Here is one article on France's free speech stance
France shares its new reverance for free speech by arresting comedian
France shares its new reverance for free speech by arresting comedian
Quote:
Dieudonné's views may be offensive, ridiculous or despicable, but it's much more offensive, ridiculous and despicable to have him arrested for a comment on Facebook. And, it's even more ridiculous to do it when his comment concerns the way people were expressing support for freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
...
Hey, France, I don't quite think you're getting the message. "I support free speech... so long as it is free speech that I sort of agree with" kind of misses the point. The views of some of these people expressing support for killers or terrorists or hatred towards certain types of people is speech that I find, personally, to be despicable. But those expressing it should be allowed to express it -- broadcasting their own confusion and ignorance to the world, and allowing others to counter that speech. Arresting people based on their speech only reinforces the ridiculous idea that they've come upon some truth or that they're speaking "truth to power." They're not. They're speaking nonsense, but in a free society we allow nonsense to be spoken.
...
Hey, France, I don't quite think you're getting the message. "I support free speech... so long as it is free speech that I sort of agree with" kind of misses the point. The views of some of these people expressing support for killers or terrorists or hatred towards certain types of people is speech that I find, personally, to be despicable. But those expressing it should be allowed to express it -- broadcasting their own confusion and ignorance to the world, and allowing others to counter that speech. Arresting people based on their speech only reinforces the ridiculous idea that they've come upon some truth or that they're speaking "truth to power." They're not. They're speaking nonsense, but in a free society we allow nonsense to be spoken.
I believe someone told me why but I forgot. Apparently he took the right actions following the incident. Right, people.
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
How do you want people to take you seriously when you do so?
At least be interesting and choose to direct your vitriol at someone who deserves it. You never say "activist Jews" or "Zionists." It's sort of hard to imagine you're anything but blatantly racist when I've brought this point up a couple times before.
I don't know how old you are but I guess you aren't worried about the fact that you haven't learned how to behave, yet.
I haven't said anything against the Jews on this page. I'm kinda tired of defending myself when I'm literally never being racist on these boards. I was issued a warning once for being racist against Jews, that was based on me literally translating a French expression, which isn't racist in French but is very offensive in English.
That's about it. As for the rest of your childish rant, literally whatever. What are you?
I haven't said anything against the Jews on this page. I'm kinda tired of defending myself when I'm literally never being racist on these boards. I was issued a warning once for being racist against Jews, that was based on me literally translating a French expression, which isn't racist in French but is very offensive in English.
That's about it. As for the rest of your childish rant, literally whatever. What are you?
I hate to defend Senkyuutai on this point, but he actually does go specifically after the Zionist jews.
His English can be horrible, and I've argued with him enough times that he does differentiate between the regular Jewish people, and the crazy Zionist ones.
Although he does start off as "Those damn Jews in France" thing...
His English can be horrible, and I've argued with him enough times that he does differentiate between the regular Jewish people, and the crazy Zionist ones.
Although he does start off as "Those damn Jews in France" thing...
That's because of the lobby which is literally called the "Jewish lobby". Between the "LICRA" and the "LDJ", while we do make the difference between Zionists and Jewish people in general, unfortunately, the LICRA and LDJ advertise themselves as defenders of Jewish people.
Therefore, going against them is showing antisemitism. They're both responsible for what has been happening the past few years and more, and people do understand that just because they're Jews doesn't mean all Jews agree with them. Sometimes the amalgam is forced by the side that is "victim" of it, this is one of those times.
Therefore, going against them is showing antisemitism. They're both responsible for what has been happening the past few years and more, and people do understand that just because they're Jews doesn't mean all Jews agree with them. Sometimes the amalgam is forced by the side that is "victim" of it, this is one of those times.
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Good morning. Are you an idiot or do you think you have a point?
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Whoops, accidentally became religious.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Whoops, accidentally became religious.
One day, you are just walking down the street, minding your own business, then suddenly:
*BAM*
Religion hits you like a ton of bricks!
Next thing you know, you are going door to door giving out the "good word" on Cthulhu and trying to save everyone from the misery of their lives!
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
"Offensive is subjective so I'll just set no limits to insults".
Going down that route kills any point for any discussion.
Going down that route kills any point for any discussion.
I find it insulting when people come to my door with the intention of trying to convert me. It is beyond rude.
I find it insulting when people try to stop me on the street to discuss my afterlife or push pamphlets into my hands.
I find it insulting when those people then tell me I'm going to hell or am a bad person for not believing in their version of the invisible pink unicorn.
I find it insulting to read religious billboards proclaiming something for their god, or church boards telling everyone driving by that they are going to hell if they don't repent.
Many probably won't find the above annoying, insulting, or aggravating. Others will also find it insulting.
I'm not advocating taking those people's speech rights away. They are well within their rights even though it insults and annoys me.
At what point do you recommend we limit insults? Do you find the above insulting or is acceptable to you to try and convert random people or post religious scripture everywhere?
You only confirmed my point, which you quoted.
There is no objective measure that all humans will agree to subscribe to regarding this, but the proposed alternative of not setting any limits to speech is not exactly a solution.
I'm appealing to reason, I can't quantify that for you.
But certainly the examples you listed do not even compare to the impact of insulting (again, not criticizing) the Prophet on a Muslim person. And the annoyances that might ensue from someone knocking at your door trying to convert you doesn't come from them exercising their right to freedom of expression per se, but rather, the way they went about it. I'd be annoyed too if they come too frequently or choose inappropriate times. And not just someone trying to convert me, anyone trying to sell me any product. And if enough people find it annoying, then:
Asura.Ccl said: »
I think those people shouldn't be allowed to come to your doorstep or try to convince you of their truth on the street/public board.
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
What are you?
Anyone else notice that the people who can barely defend their point-of-view in this thread have a terrible habit of putting on airs and pretending they're older/more mature/some other arbitrary thing that makes them "better" without ever demonstrating that assertion? At least when I start throwing around five-dollar words, it's because I use those in normal conversation (albeit to the chagrin of those stuck listening to me), not because I'm trying to feign intelligence I can't credibly claim to have.
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