The failure of a big and all powerful state lies before you.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
Ebola Patient Coming To U.S.
Ebola Patient Coming to U.S.
Quote:
Well the nurse aren't members of the union. It's a private hospital, like the co president mentioned the private hospital has special privileges regarding protocols versus public hospitals.
I'd have to read back. I realize it wasn't necessarily a union, but it was some sort of representative of the nurse/nursing being mad at a doctor for saying the nurse may have contributed through accident or negligence.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The failure of a big and all powerful state lies before you.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
Thanks Obaaaaaaamaaaaaaaaaaa *vomits up organs*
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The failure of a big and all powerful state lies before you.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
The death toll IS in the thousands bro...
EDIT: 5700 hospitals in the country. Only 4 have isolation units with a grand total of 19 beds.
I believe I specifically said "death toll here".
You don't have a point. 1)The hospital was supplied protocols. Whether or not they followed them well enough is up in the air, although there is looking to be negligence on the part of the hospital's admininstration. 2) It's due diligence to interview people on the plane. And if they hadn't, people like you would be shrieking like banshees about it. 3) People on a plane would be more of a health concern because of their close quarters and mobility. None of this is difficult to rationalize, and the politicizing is just pathetic.
You don't have a point. 1)The hospital was supplied protocols. Whether or not they followed them well enough is up in the air, although there is looking to be negligence on the part of the hospital's admininstration. 2) It's due diligence to interview people on the plane. And if they hadn't, people like you would be shrieking like banshees about it. 3) People on a plane would be more of a health concern because of their close quarters and mobility. None of this is difficult to rationalize, and the politicizing is just pathetic.
[+]
volkom said: »
Infected ebola patients are not considered contagious....
why is that and how do they know that? If someone were to have the virus but not show any symptoms, can they still spread it through human fluid (sweat,spit,nose juice etc)?
why is that and how do they know that? If someone were to have the virus but not show any symptoms, can they still spread it through human fluid (sweat,spit,nose juice etc)?
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I believe I specifically said "death toll here".
You don't have a point. 1)The hospital was supplied protocols. Whether or not they followed them well enough is up in the air, although there is looking to be negligence on the part of the hospital's admininstration. 2) It's due diligence to interview people on the plane. And if they hadn't, people like you would be shrieking like banshees about it. 3) People on a plane would be more of a health concern because of their close quarters and mobility. None of this is difficult to rationalize, and the politicizing is just pathetic.
You don't have a point. 1)The hospital was supplied protocols. Whether or not they followed them well enough is up in the air, although there is looking to be negligence on the part of the hospital's admininstration. 2) It's due diligence to interview people on the plane. And if they hadn't, people like you would be shrieking like banshees about it. 3) People on a plane would be more of a health concern because of their close quarters and mobility. None of this is difficult to rationalize, and the politicizing is just pathetic.
"The protocols that should have been in place in Dallas were not in place, and ... those protocols are not in place anywhere in the United States as far as we can tell," National Nurses United Executive Director RoseAnn DeMoro said Tuesday night. This is a leadership problem with the CDC (Obama administration). The CDC is in charge of this stuff. If this sphere is not within the reach of the CDC (which is incorrect) then how can the head of the CDC come out and say we are prepared for Ebola? How are these people who are being monitored by the CDC getting on planes in the first place? Clearly the CDC sucks at this whole quarantine thing.
"We will from this moment forward ensure that no other individual who is monitored for exposure undergoes travel…" – CDC's Frieden.
Good to know that the CDC will now re-actively monitor and restrict all Americans suspected of Ebola infection. Why is it OK to restrict Americans but not west Africans?
A few days ago Obama was touting to Africans that you couldn't get Ebola from sitting next to someone on a bus. Now we're banning American's from flying.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to link. Hand-washing protocols?
Describing washing, gloves, other personal protection equipment, etc.
Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Or they aren't stringent enough.
There is obviously a point of exposure somewhere - either the protective gear isn't offering enough protection, or the staff are being exposed to Ebola while removing the protective gear after leaving the patient.
I have to wonder, what are the CDC's protocols for dealing with exposed gear? Are staff being decontaminated before removing their gear, or are they just carefully taking it off and disposing of it? Somehow, I'm guessing the latter.
Again, people seem to be getting their notions of CDC operations and authority from the movies.
Questions and Answers on Legal Authorities for Isolation and Quarantine
It's kinda funny how the free-market folks are now crying for greater government intervention on private institutions. Guess you can't really bootstrap a hemorrhagic fever away.
Anyway, I think everyone would be more comfortable with the CDC handling the current situation directly, but there will never be a 0% chance of transmission when it comes to patient care since healthcare workers are the most susceptible to infection while being around those whose symptoms are at their most acute (and therefore, most contagious). All it takes is a slight lapse in judgement or a second of carelessness to be compromised. Even with those full body suits, health care workers in Africa are getting sick.
At the moment, the disease is contained. It's not making its way through the population touring the country. The link I posted a few pages back put its R0 at 1.5-2 meaning, on average, some successful transmissions are expected under normal conditions. That's probably not the most comforting though, but ***, it's just the reality of the situation. It's dangerous, but it's no where near being out of control.
Questions and Answers on Legal Authorities for Isolation and Quarantine
Quote:
When does CDC intend to use these quarantine powers?
In general, HHS defers to state and local health authorities in the primary use of their separate quarantine powers. Based on long experience and collaborative working relationships with our state and local partners, CDC anticipates that the need to use this federal authority to actually quarantine a person will occur only in rare situations, such as in events at ports of entry or other time-sensitive settings. This authority would be used only if a person posed a threat to public health and refused to cooperate with a voluntary request.
In general, HHS defers to state and local health authorities in the primary use of their separate quarantine powers. Based on long experience and collaborative working relationships with our state and local partners, CDC anticipates that the need to use this federal authority to actually quarantine a person will occur only in rare situations, such as in events at ports of entry or other time-sensitive settings. This authority would be used only if a person posed a threat to public health and refused to cooperate with a voluntary request.
Anyway, I think everyone would be more comfortable with the CDC handling the current situation directly, but there will never be a 0% chance of transmission when it comes to patient care since healthcare workers are the most susceptible to infection while being around those whose symptoms are at their most acute (and therefore, most contagious). All it takes is a slight lapse in judgement or a second of carelessness to be compromised. Even with those full body suits, health care workers in Africa are getting sick.
At the moment, the disease is contained. It's not making its way through the population touring the country. The link I posted a few pages back put its R0 at 1.5-2 meaning, on average, some successful transmissions are expected under normal conditions. That's probably not the most comforting though, but ***, it's just the reality of the situation. It's dangerous, but it's no where near being out of control.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The failure of a big and all powerful state lies before you.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
Yes, failure of the big and all powerful government... at the private hospital.
[+]
Nausi being a paranoid alarmist is so entertaining. But its getting annoying, please stahp kthx.
[+]
Nausi, for someone so big on personal responsibility, you sure to seem to want someone else to come in, tell you what to do, hand you everything you need, and pay for it as well.
Just don't get sick, yo.
Just don't get sick, yo.
[+]
Also, the nurse apparently had a "low-grade fever" while traveling, which further explains the interviews. (Before people freak out, the risks at this point are still very low.)
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Personal responsibility, amirite?
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Personal responsibility, amirite?
[+]
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Also, the nurse apparently had a "low-grade fever" while traveling, which further explains the interviews. (Before people freak out, the risks at this point are still very low.)
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Thanks,Obama.
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Thanks,Obama.
[+]
Why such worry over ebola when ODS is much more widespread and annoying? Still no cure!
[+]
CDC asking passengers of the flight to "self report". Call our toll free number.
Yeah, it's real contained. They said it was contained Monday when the nurse was (un-knowingly) flying around the country. If you're confident that it's contained then you should be able to answer, How many more people in the US will have Ebola in a week or a month?
...and we lump in all the conservatives/libartarians with no government anarchists. There is a difference, sorry that the nuances seem to be lost with you. Let's be real here, they're incompetent, and being incompetent is not ok when you're dealing with Ebola.
Kinda funny how the you don't seem to consider ebola a threat to public health.
Yeah, it's real contained. They said it was contained Monday when the nurse was (un-knowingly) flying around the country. If you're confident that it's contained then you should be able to answer, How many more people in the US will have Ebola in a week or a month?
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
It's kinda funny how the free-market folks are now crying for greater government intervention. Guess you can't really bootstrap a hemorrhagic fever.
...and we lump in all the conservatives/libartarians with no government anarchists. There is a difference, sorry that the nuances seem to be lost with you. Let's be real here, they're incompetent, and being incompetent is not ok when you're dealing with Ebola.
Kinda funny how the you don't seem to consider ebola a threat to public health.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Also, the nurse apparently had a "low-grade fever" while traveling, which further explains the interviews. (Before people freak out, the risks at this point are still very low.)
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Personal responsibility, amirite?
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Personal responsibility, amirite?
Sure this ebola thing in NBD, we don't need to make sure exposed people actually follow our guidelines amirite? The CDC has no responsibility there whatsoever.
Yes yes, the risks are so low that we just banned anyone possibly infected from further mass transit.
The amount of fallacies you're using is astonishing.
I mean, i just used one, but holy ***.
I mean, i just used one, but holy ***.
Are you guys sure that Nausi isn't just trying to push your collective buttons now? :/
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Also, the nurse apparently had a "low-grade fever" while traveling, which further explains the interviews. (Before people freak out, the risks at this point are still very low.)
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Personal responsibility, amirite?
Article also mentions that CDC guidelines express the need to avoid public transit in this situation, but, alas, this hospital staff doesn't seem to give a ***. Personal responsibility, amirite?
Sure this ebola thing in NBD, we don't need to make sure exposed people actually follow our guidelines amirite? The CDC has no responsibility there whatsoever.
Yes yes, the risks are so low that we just banned anyone possibly infected from further mass transit.
Why should they have to make sure exposed people actually follow guidelines? That would be taking away the consequences of personal responsibility, and we all know what kind of moral hazards that can bring up.
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Are you guys sure that Nausi isn't just trying to push your collective buttons now? :/
[+]
[+]
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Also, that GIF is highly disturbing to me. (Not my spoilered, that ones greatness)
[+]
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
volkom said: »
Infected ebola patients are not considered contagious....
why is that and how do they know that? If someone were to have the virus but not show any symptoms, can they still spread it through human fluid (sweat,spit,nose juice etc)?
why is that and how do they know that? If someone were to have the virus but not show any symptoms, can they still spread it through human fluid (sweat,spit,nose juice etc)?
End of day...answer is yes. For instance male patients who survive have Ebola present in their semen from something lime 3-6months after the infection regressed.
2. not really.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The failure of a big and all powerful state lies before you.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
1) Are protocols even being supplied, reports are out saying that Thomas Duncan wasn't isolated when he went to the ER the second time for the initial hours. The head of the nurse's union is stating that they didn't have protocols to follow.
2) If Ebola is so hard to catch and cannot be spread when the patient is asymptomatic, why is the CDC interested in interviewing all the people from the plane when it is reported that the second case didn't have any symptoms when she flew?
3) Why is the CDC only looking into the people on the plane? Why not seek out the people she interacted with while she was in Cleavland.
We've been told for weeks now how even though Ebola won't get here, we're ready for it if it does. That is entirely false. Clearly either the nurse was showing symptoms on the plane and thus has exposed people, OR the disease might not be so hard to spread.
Good to know this administration is just phoning it in.
EDIT:
OOOOH looks like Obama finally has decided to give this some attention. He just canceled a FUNDRAISER for a press conference. It must mean he's ready to capitalize politically on this crisis. Let's see what drastic actions he's ready to propose.
1. yes, protocols have been supplied
2. it's called being cautious, something you've been particularly bitchy about them not doing, so now you're bitching when they are, thanks for proving that you just want to ***.
3. they might be, but that's a much harder list of people to narrow down
4. you're pandering and panicking, and it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
The comment I post might have seem absurd to some but it is also a bullet point in the BBC article with regard to the second confirmed infected healthcare worker:
"People who recover from Ebola should abstain from sex or use condoms for at least 3 months"
I know it came off as funny or unbelievable but it does remain in reproductive fluids after recovery.
"People who recover from Ebola should abstain from sex or use condoms for at least 3 months"
I know it came off as funny or unbelievable but it does remain in reproductive fluids after recovery.
[+]
I mean it's a virus, of course it stays in your system even after your body fights it off, and it makes sense considering how semen is produced.
Could just whack it a lot after you're better though, would expedite the process, but that's a lot of jimmy hats for some people.
Could just whack it a lot after you're better though, would expedite the process, but that's a lot of jimmy hats for some people.
[+]
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