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Please sign in to Stop genocide in palestine
By Jetackuu 2014-07-31 18:44:04
Your source was only going on about one part of a very large book, and not to mention that being a professor doesn't disregard the fact that the words are still in the book.
This is as bad as the Christians who say the Christian god is all about love while entirely ignoring the old testament.
Talk about bat ***crazy.
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Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-07-31 18:46:12
And of course, he'd cherry pick, while accusing me of doing so.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-07-31 18:58:05
neither of you have actually read the Quran. That much is clear.
Neither of you actually know anything about the middle east, jews or arabs, that much is also clear.
Also 900 beheadings does not = millions upon millions of anything. learn to count.
Bani Quraytha were found guilty of treason - even in modern day standing armies, treason is punishable by death.
Bani Quraytha: "
The Banu Qurayza (Arabic: بني قريظة; بنو قريظة alternate spellings include Quraiza, Qurayzah, Quraytha, and the archaic Koreiza) were a Jewish tribe which lived in northern Arabia, at the oasis of Yathrib (presently known as Medina), until the 7th century.
In February/March of 627 AD, their conflict with Muhammad led to a 25-day siege of Banu Qurayza ending in the tribe's surrender.[1] There is much debate about the number executed with some estimating that between 400-900 males were beheaded,[2] while the Sunni hadith simply state that all male members were killed, without specifying a figure, and one woman.[3]
Jewish tribes reportedly arrived in Hijaz in the wake of the Jewish-Roman wars and introduced agriculture, putting them in a culturally, economically and politically dominant position.[4][5] However, in the 5th century, the Banu Aws and the Banu Khazraj, two Arab tribes that had arrived from Yemen, gained dominance.[6]
When these two tribes became embroiled in conflict with each other, the Jewish tribes, now clients[5][7] or allies[6] of the Arabs, fought on different sides, the Qurayza siding with the Aws.[8]
In 622, the Islamic prophet Muhammad arrived at Yathrib from Mecca and reportedly established a compact between the conflicting parties.[4][9][10] While the city found itself at war with Muhammad's native Meccan tribe of the Quraysh, tensions between the growing numbers of Muslims and the Jewish communities mounted.[8]
In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza entered into negotiations with the besiegers.[11] Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[12][13] The Banu Qurayza were overtaken and most of the men, apart from those who surrendered (many of whom converted to Islam), were beheaded, while all the women and children were taken captive and enslaved.[12][13][13][14][15][16] Several revisionist authors have challenged the veracity of this incident, arguing that it was exaggerated or invented"
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule
Jews living within Islam: "By the time of the Muslim conquests of the 7th century, ancient Jewish communities had existed in many parts of the Middle East and North Africa since Antiquity. Jews under Islamic rule were given the status of dhimmi, along with certain other pre-Islamic religious groups.[1] As such, these groups were accorded certain rights as "people of the book".
During waves of persecution in Medieval Europe, many Jews found refuge in Muslim lands.[2] For instance, Jews expelled from the Iberian Peninsula were invited to settle in various parts of the Ottoman Empire, where they would often form a prosperous model minority of merchants acting as intermediaries for their Muslim rulers."
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By Jetackuu 2014-07-31 19:03:55
Aside from your failed attempt at calling us ignorant the rest has been posted already in one way or another, almost all by BR, so...reposting it as an attack is kinda dumb.
Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-07-31 19:05:56
A single day also doesn't equate to 1400 years of persecution, humiliation, pillaging, and rape, or treating them as less than human.
So I would say "LEARN TO READ" but it's obviously beyond you at this point.
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-07-31 19:07:36
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »A single day also doesn't equate to 1400 years of persecution, humiliation, pillaging, and rape, or treating them as less than human.
So I would say "LEARN TO READ" but it's obviously beyond you at this point.
You've shown your flawed subjective sources on the killings of Jews, I've shown mine. Anyone reading can judge for themselves. Its a pitty you didn't capitalize on this by enlightening yourself and coming out from under your rock.
Now, please do present these Quranic verses that you mentioned.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 19:40:56
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »A single day also doesn't equate to 1400 years of persecution, humiliation, pillaging, and rape, or treating them as less than human.
So I would say "LEARN TO READ" but it's obviously beyond you at this point. who's the victim in this plot? i can't tell which "side" ur talking about. Canadians, obviously.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-31 19:44:57
I'm going to start quoting the Silmarillion as my holy book and see how far I can get.
By volkom 2014-07-31 19:45:04
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »neither of you have actually read the Quran. That much is clear.
Neither of you actually know anything about the middle east, jews or arabs, that much is also clear.
Also 900 beheadings does not = millions upon millions of anything. learn to count.
Bani Quraytha were found guilty of treason - even in modern day standing armies, treason is punishable by death.
Bani Quraytha: "
The Banu Qurayza (Arabic: بني قريظة; بنو قريظة alternate spellings include Quraiza, Qurayzah, Quraytha, and the archaic Koreiza) were a Jewish tribe which lived in northern Arabia, at the oasis of Yathrib (presently known as Medina), until the 7th century.
In February/March of 627 AD, their conflict with Muhammad led to a 25-day siege of Banu Qurayza ending in the tribe's surrender.[1] There is much debate about the number executed with some estimating that between 400-900 males were beheaded,[2] while the Sunni hadith simply state that all male members were killed, without specifying a figure, and one woman.[3]
Jewish tribes reportedly arrived in Hijaz in the wake of the Jewish-Roman wars and introduced agriculture, putting them in a culturally, economically and politically dominant position.[4][5] However, in the 5th century, the Banu Aws and the Banu Khazraj, two Arab tribes that had arrived from Yemen, gained dominance.[6]
When these two tribes became embroiled in conflict with each other, the Jewish tribes, now clients[5][7] or allies[6] of the Arabs, fought on different sides, the Qurayza siding with the Aws.[8]
In 622, the Islamic prophet Muhammad arrived at Yathrib from Mecca and reportedly established a compact between the conflicting parties.[4][9][10] While the city found itself at war with Muhammad's native Meccan tribe of the Quraysh, tensions between the growing numbers of Muslims and the Jewish communities mounted.[8]
In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza entered into negotiations with the besiegers.[11] Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[12][13] The Banu Qurayza were overtaken and most of the men, apart from those who surrendered (many of whom converted to Islam), were beheaded, while all the women and children were taken captive and enslaved.[12][13][13][14][15][16] Several revisionist authors have challenged the veracity of this incident, arguing that it was exaggerated or invented"
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule
Jews living within Islam: "By the time of the Muslim conquests of the 7th century, ancient Jewish communities had existed in many parts of the Middle East and North Africa since Antiquity. Jews under Islamic rule were given the status of dhimmi, along with certain other pre-Islamic religious groups.[1] As such, these groups were accorded certain rights as "people of the book".
During waves of persecution in Medieval Europe, many Jews found refuge in Muslim lands.[2] For instance, Jews expelled from the Iberian Peninsula were invited to settle in various parts of the Ottoman Empire, where they would often form a prosperous model minority of merchants acting as intermediaries for their Muslim rulers." care to explain Surah of the Children of Israel, verse 104?
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-07-31 19:51:54
I'm going to start quoting the Silmarillion as my holy book and see how far I can get.
Blaspheming scum. There is only Altana.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 19:56:00
Your source was only going on about one part of a very large book, and not to mention that being a professor doesn't disregard the fact that the words are still in the book.
This is as bad as the Christians who say the Christian god is all about love while entirely ignoring the old testament.
Talk about bat ***crazy. Judaism = Old Testament.
Christianity = New Testament.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-07-31 19:57:04
Same God in both books.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 20:04:01
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Same God in both books. Just like Allah is the same god as well.
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By Ciri Zireael 2014-07-31 20:04:17
Has someone said we need to nuke Israel yet? I haven't kept up with this thread at all.
By Jetackuu 2014-07-31 20:06:31
Your source was only going on about one part of a very large book, and not to mention that being a professor doesn't disregard the fact that the words are still in the book.
This is as bad as the Christians who say the Christian god is all about love while entirely ignoring the old testament.
Talk about bat ***crazy. Judaism = Old Testament.
Christianity = New Testament. Not entirely, but keep trying.
Has someone said we need to nuke Israel yet? I haven't kept up with this thread at all.
I'm pretty sure they said to wipe them both out, not sure if they said nuke though.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 20:07:14
Has someone said we need to nuke Israel yet? I haven't kept up with this thread at all.
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Carbuncle.Peimei
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By Carbuncle.Peimei 2014-07-31 20:10:37
So has this thread ended the conflict yet?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 20:12:08
Sorry, my bad. It was 271k not 227k.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 20:14:25
So has this thread ended the conflict yet? It caused this: Hamas and Israel agree 72-hour Gaza ceasefire.
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-07-31 20:15:13
Children of Israel, verse 104 Common and popular misunderstanding of the verse, is what I am sure you are referring to; a prophecy for the land of Israel.
There does not appear to be a prophecy in 17:104 if read in the Arabic and compared with 17:7. This may be a problem with translations. Let me show you.
First, there is no 'second' in the Arabic as is commonly translated (i.e. when the 'second' of the warnings...). Also note carefully the Arabic in bold and in the illustration. I will translate it more literally from the Arabic for you to make the point.
017:007
"If you do good, you do good for yourselves and if you do evil, (you did it) against yourselves. So when the promise of the last came (Arabic: Fa-idha jaa wa'du l-akhirat), (we permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Masjid as they had entered it (the ) first time, and to destroy what they had conquered (with destruction)"
Note the phrase "Fa-idha jaa wa'du l-akhirat" (So when the promise of the last). In the above verse, it is clearly referring to a past event most likely a reference to the destruction of the Temple in AD70 by the Romans.
What is important to note is that the same phrase is used in 17:104
017:104
"And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land (of promise)": So when the promise of the last of the warnings came (Arabic: Fa-idha jaa wa'du l-akhirat), We gathered you together in a mingled crowd"
The rest Spoilered because its a huge explanation: They are both past events with the identical Arabic used. I am not sure why so many commentators, despite the Arabic, translate the latter verse 17:104 differently and understand the 'akhirat' here as hereafter but not in 17:7. The only one that I know who translates it with my understanding is Yusuf Ali.
I feel both verses deal with the events of AD70 and 17:104 is not necessarily a prophecy about a future event.
Finally, 5:21 has a context. Prophet Moses spoke directly with his people and informed them that this particular land was assigned for them. Now the question is whether this is strictly his people or the Children of Israel forever. Note the term 'Bani Israel' is not used in 5:21, only 'ya'qawmi' (my people / community). Then if you read on it was banned to them for forty years because of their transgression (5:26). So a particular generation seems to have been punished. This also lends strength to the argument that this land was promised to a certain people with Prophet Moses. Also, remember that the other Israelites inherited the Eastern lands (7:137) as not all the Israelites left with Prophet Moses.
EXODUS OF PROPHET MOSES'S (pbuh) PEOPLE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/exodus%20of%20moses's%20people%20FM3.htm
As I don't understand the verses the way you have intimated, therefore I cannot answer your pointed question. However, I will say that no one has a right to usurp another's land. Also, I don't necessarily see any Biblical right to land categorically supported by the Quran. 5:21 has a context. 17:104 and 17:7 don't seem to be translated consistently given the Arabic. However, in persecution the Quran clearly encourages 'Hijrat' (migration). There are many verses where God says His earth is spacious. (29:56; 39:10).
There is a strong inference in the Quran that those persecuted will be asked:
004:097
"Lo! as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wrong themselves, (the angels) will ask: In what were you engaged? They will say: We were oppressed in the land. (The angels) will say: Was not God's earth spacious that you could have migrated therein? As for such, their habitation will be hell, an evil journey's end"
004:098
"Except the feeble among men, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan and are not shown a way"
So this is another perspective to consider. After all the Prophet also was forced to migrate under persecution.
source: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=58.0
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-31 20:21:26
Didn't you give up Maldini?
You wanted an unbiased source, but the only sources you are willing to accept are from biased people.
But then again, everyone is biased.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-07-31 20:22:08
Didn't you give up Maldini?
You wanted an unbiased source, but the only sources you are willing to accept are from biased people.
But then again, everyone is biased. Give up on what?
By volkom 2014-07-31 20:22:20
have any actual academic references to back that up besides a forum post?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-31 20:22:44
They got tired of our bickering and fighting.
The two leaders got together and said "Man, our ***is bad, but have you SEEN those guys on FFXIAH.com? We should stop fighting for a weekend just to shut them up!" and signed a ceasefire.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-31 20:23:14
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Didn't you give up Maldini?
You wanted an unbiased source, but the only sources you are willing to accept are from biased people.
But then again, everyone is biased. Give up on what?
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »I'm done talking with you.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-07-31 20:30:41
have any actual academic references to back that up besides a forum post? have any actual academic references to back that up besides a forum post? I'm sure there are some in response to people citing bad translations of arabic into English due to lack of understanding of the language. But its such a trivial matter and easily recognized as bad translation that even the most hardlined advocates of Israel don't use it as a justification, because they're completely aware of it being a really bad translation.
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By Asura.Echandra 2014-07-31 20:30:57
They got tired of our bickering and fighting.
The two leaders got together and said "Man, our ***is bad, but have you SEEN those guys on FFXIAH.com? We should stop fighting for a weekend just to shut them up!" and signed a ceasefire.
nah, they didn't even hit up ffxiah. The double points weekend, so no time to war, gotta stock up for next version update. Also, I need someone to start a petition for Idi's Ledelsens to drop in my treasure pool.
Monday, once it's over, all hell will break loose again. The one other thing through this whole sudden surge of interest in Israel...did the world run out of things to talk about, so we suddenly swung over to Israel and went HOLY CRAP LOOK WHAT JUST SUDDENLY STARTED HAPPENING!?
when I try to put it in perspective, I just can't fathom why some land over there is more sacred than the dirt outside my apartment. Far as I'm concerned the whole earth should be holy land, not specific spots, end of the day, the only cancer ends up being humanity. oh well.
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