Liberals Prefer Comfortable Lies Over Truth

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Liberals Prefer Comfortable Lies Over Truth
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By 2014-06-17 19:40:48
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 19:52:08  
Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
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Liberals Prefer Comfortable Lies Over
Sometimes people deserve more than the truth. Sometimes they deserve to have their faith rewarded.
Absolutely. Whether that faith is placed with religion, government, or science.
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By Triffle 2014-06-17 20:03:31  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
Quote:
Liberals Prefer Comfortable Lies Over
Sometimes people deserve more than the truth. Sometimes they deserve to have their faith rewarded.
Absolutely. Whether that faith is placed with religion, government, or science.

Religious faith isn't the same thing as science. Science is the study of the natural world. It's looking at things that can be proven in some way or another. Religion is blind belief in something without a trace of proof behind it. The two are things that are completely opposite, so never lump the two together.

People have faith in the afterlife. You don't place faith in the fact that your computer runs on electricity.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 20:18:25  
You place your faith in that scientists have done the proper research and that engineers have used the appropriate materials and the right science to create your computer. You place your faith in the software engineers who created your operating system, and haven't put any back doors in the software to spy on you.

Everything boils down to faith, unless you've done all the research, science, mathematics, resource gathering, and engineering yourself. And even then you're still putting your faith in the work of those before you, unless you have also repeated all their work.

What are you going to do if one day there is no electricity or your devices stop working suddenly? Just buy a new one? Hope that the new device will work, putting faith in the store, in that they actually sell new items and these items work.

You still have faith in power plants providing the electricity. Faith that the aging power grids will still work, etc.
 Ragnarok.Azryel
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By Ragnarok.Azryel 2014-06-17 20:19:07  


This is the perfect solution that in theory should make both sides happy, yes?
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-06-17 20:19:38  
Faith and trust are not interchangeable words.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-06-17 20:23:40  
Ragnarok.Azryel said: »
This is the perfect solution that in theory should make both sides happy, yes?

What, no grand secession fantasies? Civil War II?

Also, I hope you're ready to give up all the major cities in this game of Red v. Blue.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 20:25:40  
Trust is more of a person to person, or a personal relationship thing. Faith is your overall perception using your collection of trusts.

Even trust is defined with the word belief.

Quote:
trust
noun \ˈtrəst\

: belief that someone or something is reliable, good, honest, effective, etc.

Quote:
faith
noun \ˈfāth\

: strong belief or trust in someone or something
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-06-17 20:30:57  
Religious faith is belief without the presence of evidence. Despite all evidence to the contrary, an individual still believes in something. It's played up to such a ridiculous degree in some cults that individuals attempt to shape reality around their beliefs. See: Religious extremists, cultists.

Trust is based on evidence and based on prior experience. I trust my father to do right by me because he's done so many times and I trust that my train will take me to point B because it'd done so for many other people.

Unless you're the "I've seen angels" type of theist all belief ultimately come down to faith. Basically, magic.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-17 20:35:35  
Triffle said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
I never understood the argument where religious people claim that atheists have no morality. What makes those who believe in a god more moral, exactly? Because we don't believe in an afterlife or a reward/punishment? That makes it seem as though religious people are faking it because they feel they have to do it if they want redemption.

What about the love that Jesus teaches us? Well, isn't it possible to love thy fellow man without adhering to the words of some dude in a book? I'm just as capable of showing compassion as the next guy.

So why else?

The way I understand it those who are religious and believe you need religion to be moral are in fact pretty bad people at heart. The way I get it is that they think that humanity needs a reward dangled in front of them to be good, otherwise a human being is essentially an evil sinner who would rape and pillage at will. Kind of like Patton Oswalt's sky cake bit or how kids need to be good to get presents from Santa. This means for them anyone without a belief in a god and the reward of eternal life and happiness is essentially evil.

Your understanding is wrong. It's actually the reverse. Humans are more motivated by the aversion to pain then by the bliss of reward. Substance abuse addicts are not using for the positive feeling, they are using as an escape for their persistent pain (physical or mental). It's the fear of hell that motivated people to obey the theocracy, not the promise of paradise.

As to human nature, humans are selfish and greedy. This has been historically demonstrated. The presumption of selfishness vs selflessness is the core difference between the communist and capitalist economic systems. Not hard to see which one works and which one falls apart.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 20:49:26  
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Science and Faith

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By Triffle 2014-06-17 20:53:37  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Triffle said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
I never understood the argument where religious people claim that atheists have no morality. What makes those who believe in a god more moral, exactly? Because we don't believe in an afterlife or a reward/punishment? That makes it seem as though religious people are faking it because they feel they have to do it if they want redemption.

What about the love that Jesus teaches us? Well, isn't it possible to love thy fellow man without adhering to the words of some dude in a book? I'm just as capable of showing compassion as the next guy.

So why else?

The way I understand it those who are religious and believe you need religion to be moral are in fact pretty bad people at heart. The way I get it is that they think that humanity needs a reward dangled in front of them to be good, otherwise a human being is essentially an evil sinner who would rape and pillage at will. Kind of like Patton Oswalt's sky cake bit or how kids need to be good to get presents from Santa. This means for them anyone without a belief in a god and the reward of eternal life and happiness is essentially evil.

Your understanding is wrong. It's actually the reverse. Humans are more motivated by the aversion to pain then by the bliss of reward. Substance abuse addicts are not using for the positive feeling, they are using as an escape for their persistent pain (physical or mental). It's the fear of hell that motivated people to obey the theocracy, not the promise of paradise.

As to human nature, humans are selfish and greedy. This has been historically demonstrated. The presumption of selfishness vs selflessness is the core difference between the communist and capitalist economic systems. Not hard to see which one works and which one falls apart.

Aversion of pain is a reward in itself. What you have just repeated is pretty much exactly what I said a crazy religious person thinks of non-believer's morals using different words. Hence my understanding is correct.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 20:59:20  
Ragnarok.Azryel said: »


This is the perfect final solution that in theory should make both sides happy, yes?
ftfy.
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 Ragnarok.Paimeii
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By Ragnarok.Paimeii 2014-06-17 21:04:20  
He's a pretty smart guy, if you listen to all of it, at the end he says "there may be a conflict" acknowledging that faith and scientific fact may be separate.
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2014-06-17 21:07:07  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
As to human nature, humans are selfish and greedy. This has been historically demonstrated.
This has been demonstrated by those individuals who are selfish and greedy, but there are individuals on the other end of the spectrum - Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, etc. This statement is more of a broad generalization than an accurate depiction of mankind.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-17 21:11:49  
I suggest removing Mother Theresa from that list. She was nothing but a PR ***.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 21:15:47  
Mother Theresa had a suffering to death fetish. How her name become synonymous with goodness is beyond me.
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 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-17 21:20:37  
To say nothing of her humanitarian work in Africa by swinging the majority of the population to the idea that; as bad as AIDS is, condoms are worse.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 21:49:23  
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
To say nothing of her humanitarian work in Africa by swinging the majority of the population to the idea that; as bad as AIDS is, condoms are worse.
I think it was Hitchens, who did a thing on Gandhi too.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-17 21:52:54  
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
As to human nature, humans are selfish and greedy. This has been historically demonstrated.
This has been demonstrated by those individuals who are selfish and greedy, but there are individuals on the other end of the spectrum - Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, etc. This statement is more of a broad generalization than an accurate depiction of mankind.

Hahahaha

The exception proves the rule. People are selfish asshol3s. Otherwise the world would already be a liberal paradise.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-17 21:55:18  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
liberal paradise
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 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-17 22:01:27  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
To say nothing of her humanitarian work in Africa by swinging the majority of the population to the idea that; as bad as AIDS is, condoms are worse.
I think it was Hitchens, who did a thing on Gandhi too.

The man hated human idols that's for sure. There's a certain amount of tragic irony to be mined from that now... Given that he's kind of entered into history by some as the very thing he hated.

Then again, Flying Spaghetti monster was meant to be a joke, and it actually has a full-fledged religion now... so.. Praise be his noodley Appendage, Ramen. (?)
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 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2014-06-17 22:02:35  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Otherwise the world would already be a liberal paradise.
This is true. So maybe I should redact that by saying Conservatives are the selfish ***.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-17 22:09:00  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
To say nothing of her humanitarian work in Africa by swinging the majority of the population to the idea that; as bad as AIDS is, condoms are worse.
I think it was Hitchens, who did a thing on Gandhi too.

Gandhi was racist as f8ck, also there is very strong evidence he was an ephebophile. Gandhi did good things but he was still human and humans are flawed.

We tend to create mythical figures out of other humans that did some good in their lives as a way of convincing ourselves that we aren't as bad as we are. New testament Jesus is a prime example of this. If we were naturally selfless we would never of survived the jungle as a species. Genetically we haven't changed in the last few hundred thousand years. A few years of liberal "feel good" indoctrination isn't going to change what nature did in millions.

Liberals must have a serious case of God complex to think they can overwrite human nature by decree.
 Ragnarok.Overdragon
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By Ragnarok.Overdragon 2014-06-17 22:10:04  
Conservative start orphanages and homes to feed the poor. Liberals using take the money and food, then complain that life isn't fair.

Tell them to get a job or mind their kwn business and they become violent (usually verbal, but if that doesn't work. ..)
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By Jetackuu 2014-06-17 22:11:34  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
The presumption of selfishness vs selflessness is the core difference between the communist and capitalist economic systems. Not hard to see which one works and which one falls apart.
They actually both fall apart as neither work alone in their "pure" forms.

Both succumb to greed.
 Ragnarok.Overdragon
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By Ragnarok.Overdragon 2014-06-17 22:12:06  
Pardon my typos.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-17 22:12:51  
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Otherwise the world would already be a liberal paradise.
This is true. So maybe I should redact that by saying Conservatives are the selfish ***.

Haha and yet you display the very thing you blame them for.

Hillary is just as selfish and self serving as Bush. I have seen equal amounts of assho1e behavior from people of both political religions. Equal amounts of selfish behavior too.

Like I said, the exception proves the rule.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-17 22:14:05  
Don't confuse Liberal agenda with trying to allow rational thought to persevere over primal nature. Do you really believe tribal aggression, blind leader-following and superstitious nonsense are things that should be embraced?
 Ragnarok.Overdragon
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By Ragnarok.Overdragon 2014-06-17 22:14:53  
Bush, hilery, and obama are all big government liberals. So what is your point.
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