Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 13:51:18  
If you haven't watched A Clockwork Orange you need to right now !
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By Phoenix.Xantavia 2015-09-24 16:08:10  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Phoenix.Xantavia said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
In papal news:

Pope Francis's take in US Politics

You know, I respect the man who is probably the most marked for assassination due to his religion for speaking in public. But his viewpoints in foreign politics is about as meaningful as a US citizen going to Italy and making comments about Italian politics...which is basically what he is doing.

No doubt his words have influence, but still...he shouldn't bother with topics that are unfamiliar to him.
Isn't the pope also the head of a sovereign state? That should easily qualify him to comment on politics in other countries. Same thing as Obama or any other world leaders putting in their 2 cents about how another country does their business.
Depends on if you consider Vatican City as a sovereign state.

It doesn't fit the definition of one, but people will disagree with me out of principle.
Not disagreeing with you just because. A quick search gave me this information.
Quote:
1. Vatican City is the smallest country in the world.
Encircled by a 2-mile border with Italy, Vatican City is an independent city-state that covers just over 100 acres, making it one-eighth the size of New York’s Central Park. Vatican City is governed as an absolute monarchy with the pope at its head. The Vatican mints its own euros, prints its own stamps, issues passports and license plates, operates media outlets and has its own flag and anthem. One government function it lacks: taxation. Museum admission fees, stamp and souvenir sales, and contributions generate the Vatican’s revenue.
Seems to be officially recognized as a city-state.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:11:47  
You are right.

My apologies.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 16:12:27  
fonewear said: »
Olive Garden is not truly authentic Italian cuisine !

Even the breadsticks?!

I watched the Pope's speech before Congress. I feel that he's hypocrite and lost a lot of respect for him. He made some subtle jabs at same-sex marriage, abortion, and planned parenthood.

When he was making those jabs I felt like saying something about all the children his priests have raped.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:14:54  
Meh, as long as he doesn't attempt to backseat rule this country, he can say whatever he wants to. To me, I tend to ignore a person's opinion about the US who has never stepped foot here, what does that person know about internal US politics?
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-24 16:16:01  
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:16:24  
Benghazi.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:18:24  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
So?

Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?

Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:24:07  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
So?

Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?

Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful.
While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.

tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:27:08  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
So?

Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?

Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful.
While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.

tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show.
I don't disagree with you. I just find it audacious that they allowed him to be critical to the US that way. I didn't watch his speech either, just caught the highlights and found them disgusting.

I'm not saying this because I'm not religious either. But then again, our SOS does pretty much the same thing at other countries, so I guess we should just roll with the punches. Or stop that practice period...
 
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-24 16:29:43  
Well apparently, the pope's speech made Boehner cry. Ok then.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:30:36  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
So?

Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?

Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful.
While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.

tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show.
I don't disagree with you. I just find it audacious that they allowed him to be critical to the US that way. I didn't watch his speech either, just caught the highlights and found them disgusting.

I'm not saying this because I'm not religious either. But then again, our SOS does pretty much the same thing at other countries, so I guess we should just roll with the punches. Or stop that practice period...
Well, I mean, you don't really talk back to someone who is seen as infallible by at least 22% of the people who decide if you get to keep your job and possibly decide upon your next job.
 
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:31:06  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Well apparently, the pope's speech made Boehner cry. Ok then.
Imagine that!
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-09-24 16:32:44  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Answering the real questions with clarity.

Thats how he answers all of the questions, its what stirred up the Muslim talk.

It's because when he gives his real ideas, people realize that he is a Democrat running as a Republican.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 16:33:03  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.
So?

Do you think it's ok for somebody outside your country to go to your capital and tell your politicians what to do?

Because if so, I'll be over there in Italy in a bit and give them an earful.
While I didn't watch the speech, you have to remember that this was the Pope. What he says, on national TV, WILL be pandering to those who follow the Catholic faith. He didn't get to be the Pope for saying things that Catholics vehemently disagree with and he will likely only say otherwise when it is beneficial to the Catholic church. After he leaves, some politicians shrug, others buy in and touch upon it for the Catholic votes, but for the most part things go back to business as usual.

tl;dr US Politicians welcomed the Pope but most likely don't give a ***about what he had to say. It's for show.
I don't disagree with you. I just find it audacious that they allowed him to be critical to the US that way. I didn't watch his speech either, just caught the highlights and found them disgusting.

I'm not saying this because I'm not religious either. But then again, our SOS does pretty much the same thing at other countries, so I guess we should just roll with the punches. Or stop that practice period...
Well, I mean, you don't really talk back to someone who is seen as infallible by at least 22% of the people who decide if you get to keep your job and possibly decide upon your next job.
Meh.

I'm not saying we shouldn't respect the guy though. If he wants to come visit, then let him. Shouldn't let him make policy speeches though, or at the very least invite him to do so.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-24 16:39:31  
YES!! I knew he had to exist!
 
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 16:54:50  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.

If they are "not" US specific, then why is he at the US Capital? Why is he speaking before Congress? Why not just speak at Vatican City?

While the topics are not US specific, his speech most certainly is. He did it to call into question particular US policies and upcoming laws.

It's both disrespectful and distasteful. The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-24 16:57:53  
He was invited to speak to Congress so he spoke. /shrug
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 17:06:17  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
He was invited to speak to Congress so he spoke. /shrug

When you get invited somewhere you generally don't go to disrespect people. That's like getting invited to dinner and insulting/correcting people when you get there.
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-24 17:07:56  
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws

In his defense, most of Congress isn't really qualified to talk about any of that stuff either
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 17:14:14  
Drama Torama said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws

In his defense, most of Congress isn't really qualified to talk about any of that stuff either

In the defense of Congress, they haven't been proven wrong on matters of science since the days of Galileo.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 17:15:36  
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Homosexual marriage and abortion are not us-specific. They're social topics that partain the whole world.

If they are "not" US specific, then why is he at the US Capital? Why is he speaking before Congress? Why not just speak at Vatican City?

While the topics are not US specific, his speech most certainly is. He did it to call into question particular US policies and upcoming laws.

It's both disrespectful and distasteful. The Church has no right to speak on matters of science/medicine, let alone federal laws.


The pope frequently serves as a mediator and advisor to other nations. It's not like that's a new thing. I don't like the idea of religious leaders speaking before Congress in a religious context, and his speech wasn't religious, though it was very Christian.

The Catholic church actually has a long history of investigating and practicing science and medicine. They've even got official positions in those fields, they even have an observatory.

If you really want to get pedantic, he was here as the leader of a sovereign nation, and I didn't hear many people complaining about Netanyahu telling congress what they should do.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-24 17:17:46  
I suppose it's different. If you had a religious body questioning your federal rights before congress you'd be a bit ticked off too.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 17:21:39  
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
I suppose it's different. If you had a religious body questioning your federal rights before congress you'd be a bit ticked off too.

I'm not sure which federal rights you're referring to. I don't like religious ideology affecting affairs of state on any level unless they coincide with secular ideology. "Murder is bad", for example, isn't an exclusively religious idea. I wouldn't even have a problem with banning abortion if there was a secular ideology behind it, like radically declining population or if we discovered that zygotes had consciousness, etc.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 17:22:54  
Josiahkf said: »
You lead a religion with a billion people worldwide and key countries around the world are large parts of huge conflict?
why wouldnt you go visit them and try to talk to them?

Not to mention the USA has a lot of influence, for good or bad, throughout the world and convincing us to take up a cause for the future of humanity has more impact than convincing Belgium, for example.
 
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