Random Politics & Religion #00

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-17 13:00:09  
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
lack qualified candidates
That's a myth and a huge part of the problem.

There are plenty of qualified candidates within the country. They only lack experience. Providing them with that experience while getting paid is cheaper to import (legal immigrants) than to do domestically.

IMO, the most insane part of how the job market works is that new graduates that now have piles of debt who need to start paying back that money immediately are expected to work 40+ hours a week for free while also holding down another job for 40+ hours a week. Even if they move back home, they still need money to start paying back the loans.

Myth or not (believe what you want, I don't particularly care much) do you think it is a wise move to deport college educated immigrants back to their country?
It depends who they owe money to if they owe anything at all.

If they owe U.S. colleges/universities money then no.

If they don't owe money to any U.S. college/university or government/private lending institution then yes.

That's when the facts of actually having qualified candidates within the country come into the equation.

Also it's not a matter of deporting them if they remain in the U.S. legally.

If they're here legally, it's up to the company on who to hire. This would be where incentives to hire Americans over foreigners via laws/regulations/tax break/etc. become a factor.

IMO, it's highly unethical to hire an illegal immigrant when there is an abundance of qualified people desperate for work, drowning in debt.

To be fair, many of the European countries many of us laud keep this kind of policy. Hiring foreign workers isn't necessarily banned, but you've got to prove they'd be able to do something better than a native with the same basic background.

That's a generality, it varies from country to country, of course.

Can't really not acknowledge that aspect though.~
From what I've heard about on places like Norway and Sweden, to places I've actually worked and had to do this, Russia and China, it seems like an almost universal concept (not just Europe). Prove to them why they should hire you over one of their citizens with the same education and background.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-17 13:00:52  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I saw both these stories and from what I read, they never said why in each case the employee refused to serve the officer(s). Was it simply because they were police officers, or did they have a more detailed reason that I missed somewhere?
Quote:
Davenport told CBS Miami that he didn't serve the officer, because he was busy helping other customers. He said that the misunderstanding was the result of Mirabel trying to make a joke that did not go over well.

“We don’t hate cops,” Davenport said told the television station. “We don’t hate anybody. We’re just trying to get people out of the drive thru.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/02/arbys-apologizes-refuses--serve-florida-police-officer/71580310/

I recalled this from the incident, if we're to believe the guy's story it sounds like the "manager" tried to make a bad joke and it backfired.
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-09-17 13:00:54  
Ramyrez said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
So, are well overlooking the pragmatic use of college release programs that are offered to Juniors and Seniors in high school to knock out transferable core curriculum requirements?

Just checking.

When I was in school they got cut due to lack of interest.

AP English had 4 people signed up for it. -.-;

That's really disappointing.

In smaller districts where you have more limitations in the electives given the district budget, you would think college release/dual-credit would be the most practical and cost-effective solution for both the school and the students, especially when they don't provide Advanced Placement programs.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:01:07  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
From what I've heard to places like Norway and Sweden, to places I've actually worked and had to do this, Russia and China, it seems like an almost universal concept. Prove to them why they should hire you over one of their citizens with the same education and background.

I think in some places it's actually required by the government though? Or at least heavily incentivized?
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:01:49  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
So, are well overlooking the pragmatic use of college release programs that are offered to Juniors and Seniors in high school to knock out transferable core curriculum requirements?

Just checking.

When I was in school they got cut due to lack of interest.

AP English had 4 people signed up for it. -.-;

That's really disappointing.

In smaller districts where you have more limitations in the electives given the district budget, you would think college release/dual-credit would be the most practical and cost-effective solution for both the school and the students, especially when they don't provide Advanced Placement programs.

Well, this specifically was AP, as college release would have required at least a 45 minute drive to boot.

On a positive note, however, it did mean that I had to take English 101 in college and I got to meet one of the greatest professors I've had the pleasure of working with, and with whom I took two other advanced courses. Oddly fortuitous, given it was the one semester every few years on the rotation where he actually did undergrad non-majors courses.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-17 13:02:33  
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
As far as shifting the focus around, do you understand how that would effect demographics? Part of the struggle with current employment is the disproportionate number of qualified people in different age ranges. Pushing half a generation into STEM, then half a generation into something else is effectively building an economic Jenga tower. What happens when a field becomes outmoded by a new technology? I think the Detroit Steelworkers have an idea.

I never said it was perfect, I just said it wasn't permanent. Doesn't China already do (or used to do) something to that effect, though? I have a Chinese coworker that has a degree in chemical engineering, and he makes it sound like he didn't have a huge say in the matter.

It's my understanding that they have a pretty authoritarian caste system. It sounds like you would rather be more like China than more like Sweden.

I'd rather be more like neither.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-17 13:04:43  
Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I saw both these stories and from what I read, they never said why in each case the employee refused to serve the officer(s). Was it simply because they were police officers, or did they have a more detailed reason that I missed somewhere?
Quote:
Davenport told CBS Miami that he didn't serve the officer, because he was busy helping other customers. He said that the misunderstanding was the result of Mirabel trying to make a joke that did not go over well.

“We don’t hate cops,” Davenport said told the television station. “We don’t hate anybody. We’re just trying to get people out of the drive thru.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/02/arbys-apologizes-refuses--serve-florida-police-officer/71580310/

I recalled this from the incident, if we're to believe the guy's story it sounds like the "manager" tried to make a bad joke and it backfired.
Oh yeah, the Abry's one had that short mentioning of a joke. It still seems like there is either a missing piece from this story (the joke) as well as the other story, or some type of underground movement to not serve cops. Idk if that's a thing now or what. It's one thing if they expect a free meal or free stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:07:00  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Oh yeah, the Abry's one had that short mentioning of a joke. It still seems like there is either a missing piece from this story (the joke) as well as the other story, or some type of underground movement to not serve cops. Idk if that's a thing now or what. It's one thing if they expect a free meal or free stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Inversely, in Pennsylvania the current governor is really big on wiping out whatever government worker "perks" from private industry he can (I applaud this).

To that end, the discount that state police employees got at Subway went away.

Which really pissed Subway off. They got a lot of business from State Troopers who basically stopped going there when their discount went away.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-17 13:09:33  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I saw both these stories and from what I read, they never said why in each case the employee refused to serve the officer(s). Was it simply because they were police officers, or did they have a more detailed reason that I missed somewhere?
Quote:
Davenport told CBS Miami that he didn't serve the officer, because he was busy helping other customers. He said that the misunderstanding was the result of Mirabel trying to make a joke that did not go over well.

“We don’t hate cops,” Davenport said told the television station. “We don’t hate anybody. We’re just trying to get people out of the drive thru.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/02/arbys-apologizes-refuses--serve-florida-police-officer/71580310/

I recalled this from the incident, if we're to believe the guy's story it sounds like the "manager" tried to make a bad joke and it backfired.
Oh yeah, the Abry's one had that short mentioning of a joke. It still seems like there is either a missing piece from this story (the joke) as well as the other story, or some type of underground movement to not serve cops. Idk if that's a thing now or what. It's one thing if they expect a free meal or free stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

From what I read before (too lazy to look it up again) is that they were busy, the dude said something about the other guy being short with him or something and the manager made a crack saying that he didn't want to serve him because he was a cop, which the original person said that wasn't true, they were just busy.

If it's accurate that one got canned and the other got reprimanded from this incident, I hope it was the manager who got canned for making a poor joke, and not the other guy, but I'm skeptic.
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By Jassik 2015-09-17 13:09:45  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
As far as shifting the focus around, do you understand how that would effect demographics? Part of the struggle with current employment is the disproportionate number of qualified people in different age ranges. Pushing half a generation into STEM, then half a generation into something else is effectively building an economic Jenga tower. What happens when a field becomes outmoded by a new technology? I think the Detroit Steelworkers have an idea.

I never said it was perfect, I just said it wasn't permanent. Doesn't China already do (or used to do) something to that effect, though? I have a Chinese coworker that has a degree in chemical engineering, and he makes it sound like he didn't have a huge say in the matter.

It's my understanding that they have a pretty authoritarian caste system. It sounds like you would rather be more like China than more like Sweden.

I'd rather be more like neither.

In what respects? Education costs are ridiculous, employers can't fill positions yet there are actually a lot of qualified people who can't afford to live on the wages those employers are offering. There's only a few ways to either lower the cost of education or pay it back in wages. Either regulate wages or college costs or subsidize them. To be clear, we're already spending a crazy amount of tax dollars on both of those problems (subsidizing schools/loans/lenders) and public assistance (welfare/unemployment benefits/corporate subsidies). Why not end those expenses and eliminate the need by offering companies educated and qualified people who aren't saddled with enormous debt and drive down the cost of living to a competitive wage level? The reason is that's socialism, and socialism is super bad cause Reagan.

Even Sander's approach (which I don't necessarily agree with) means the average Joe's tax burden stays the same or lessens, while big banks pay relatively minute taxes on things like speculation.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-17 13:11:19  
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Oh yeah, the Abry's one had that short mentioning of a joke. It still seems like there is either a missing piece from this story (the joke) as well as the other story, or some type of underground movement to not serve cops. Idk if that's a thing now or what. It's one thing if they expect a free meal or free stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Inversely, in Pennsylvania the current governor is really big on wiping out whatever government worker "perks" from private industry he can (I applaud this).

To that end, the discount that state police employees got at Subway went away.

Which really pissed Subway off. They got a lot of business from State Troopers who basically stopped going there when their discount went away.

Was the discount offered by the state or Subway? If the latter what rule/law did they pass in doing away with it, if the former then why doesn't Subway offer a discount of their own?

(inb4 Jared joke).
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-17 13:12:20  
Jassik said: »
and socialism is super bad cause 'Murica
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-17 13:15:48  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Question is, will Obama publicly applaud him and invite him to the White House?

For what? Doing exactly what the officers did to the kid?

Judgment based on a broad profile.

Works both ways. Turns out it's more readily accepted in one direction rather than the other though. Go-go gadget illusion of safety.
I would have thought that Obama was applauding the discredit of police officers and school staff for doing what they needed to do in the case of that kid bringing a questionable item to school, and the adults acted the way that was actually in the best interest of the safety of the school.

Since that ex-worker did exactly the same thing (discredit police officers), Obama would have been thrilled.

Oh right.

Texas.

Defending racial profiling because it "works."

I forgot.
Right, when you cannot counter an argument, it's best to change the topic to something completely different.

I forgot.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-09-17 13:16:05  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Question is, will Obama publicly applaud him and invite him to the White House?

For what? Doing exactly what the officers did to the kid?

Judgment based on a broad profile.

Works both ways. Turns out it's more readily accepted in one direction rather than the other though. Go-go gadget illusion of safety.
I would have thought that Obama was applauding the discredit of police officers and school staff for doing what they needed to do in the case of that kid bringing a questionable item to school, and the adults acted the way that was actually in the best interest of the safety of the school.

Since that ex-worker did exactly the same thing (discredit police officers), Obama would have been thrilled.

Oh right.

Texas.

Defending racial profiling because it "works."

I forgot.

Kind of veering into a different tangent in light of recent headlines, but right now in Texas there is a movement to phase out state testing (which I agree with) and relinquish more centralized control of schools to the districts themselves.

In most cases, a more localized education system would be great. The apprehensions lie in the population of certain districts and their individual agendas, especially in areas that lack diversity. We've already seen the degeneration of education in Texas.

It seems like it could very well be a double-edged sword.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:19:37  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Right, when you cannot counter an argument, it's best to change the topic to something completely different.

I forgot.

Texas has been in the national spotlight several times over profiling problems. -.-;
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:20:55  
Jetackuu said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Oh yeah, the Abry's one had that short mentioning of a joke. It still seems like there is either a missing piece from this story (the joke) as well as the other story, or some type of underground movement to not serve cops. Idk if that's a thing now or what. It's one thing if they expect a free meal or free stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Inversely, in Pennsylvania the current governor is really big on wiping out whatever government worker "perks" from private industry he can (I applaud this).

To that end, the discount that state police employees got at Subway went away.

Which really pissed Subway off. They got a lot of business from State Troopers who basically stopped going there when their discount went away.

Was the discount offered by the state or Subway? If the latter what rule/law did they pass in doing away with it, if the former then why doesn't Subway offer a discount of their own?

(inb4 Jared joke).

It was offered by Subway and, strictly speaking, I suppose it still is. But it is considered a gift from a private company and state employees are forbidden from accepting such gifts.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-17 13:23:56  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Right, when you cannot counter an argument, it's best to change the topic to something completely different.

I forgot.

Texas has been in the national spotlight several times over profiling problems. -.-;
You just made it sound like Texas is the only place where profiling exists.

You could just ignore it, but we all know you will just scoff at the sources.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-17 13:32:44  
In other news:

I'm surprised there hasn't been any uproar over the change in credit card processing rules that starts on October 1.

I would have figured our resident anti-company/anti-corporation/anti-bank crowd would be up in arms by now, saying that banks are ruling our lives and the usual BS.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:33:41  
Yeah. I totally support profiling in my state, but not yours.

Eeesh.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-17 13:35:25  
Ramyrez said: »
Yeah. I totally support profiling in my state, but not yours.

Eeesh.
Maybe you should realize that this is a worldwide issue and not specific to a single state?

Then you wouldn't say things like this:

Ramyrez said: »
Texas has been in the national spotlight several times over profiling problems. -.-;
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:38:16  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
In other news:

I'm surprised there hasn't been any uproar over the change in credit card processing rules that starts on October 1.

I would have figured our resident anti-company/anti-corporation/anti-bank crowd would be up in arms by now, saying that banks are ruling our lives and the usual BS.

The EMV changes?

They shouldn't effect consumers that much.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:39:01  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Yeah. I totally support profiling in my state, but not yours.

Eeesh.
Maybe you should realize that this is a worldwide issue and not specific to a single state?

Then you wouldn't say things like this:

Ramyrez said: »
Texas has been in the national spotlight several times over profiling problems. -.-;

You're missing the point.

It isn't that Texas is alone in the problem.

It's that Texans overwhelmingly, though admittedly not universally, automatically defend negative things that occur in Texas with a knee-jerk reaction BECAUSE TEXAS.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-17 13:40:16  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
In other news:

I'm surprised there hasn't been any uproar over the change in credit card processing rules that starts on October 1.

I would have figured our resident anti-company/anti-corporation/anti-bank crowd would be up in arms by now, saying that banks are ruling our lives and the usual BS.

The EMV changes?

They shouldn't effect consumers that much.
Yeah, except it's not a government-issued rule change. Banks are spearheading this movement.

I figured that alone would make you not like it.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-17 13:41:14  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Yeah. I totally support profiling in my state, but not yours.

Eeesh.
Maybe you should realize that this is a worldwide issue and not specific to a single state?

Then you wouldn't say things like this:

Ramyrez said: »
Texas has been in the national spotlight several times over profiling problems. -.-;

You're missing the point.

It isn't that Texas is alone in the problem.

It's that Texans overwhelmingly, though admittedly not universally, automatically defend negative things that occur in Texas with a knee-jerk reaction BECAUSE TEXAS.
Well, I'm sorry that my state is so awesome that every other state has to create negative things and attribute it as a Texas-only trait just so they feel better about themselves...
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:44:06  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Yeah, except it's not a government-issued rule change. Banks are spearheading this movement.

I figured that alone would make you not like it.

The idea is to keep consumers more secure.

Despite what you think, I generally don't oppose things just for the sake of opposing things, or to spite the person presenting things.

Help, Saev has me thoroughly blocked (at least, I think he still does) and I'll still [+] his FFXI-related posts when they make sense.

And if anything, it takes heat off of the consumer if their card is stolen and misused, putting it on the card issuer and the merchant.

The only negative might be smaller businesses that don't keep up could get burned, which would be unfortunate, but at the same time...I've been to a lot of small business that are cash-only, so.

All in all I am largely in favor of secure technology. Biotagging. Let's get it done!
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-17 13:45:13  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Well, I'm sorry that my state is so awesome that every other state has to create negative things and attribute it as a Texas-only trait just so they feel better about themselves...

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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-17 13:56:36  
Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I saw both these stories and from what I read, they never said why in each case the employee refused to serve the officer(s). Was it simply because they were police officers, or did they have a more detailed reason that I missed somewhere?
Quote:
Davenport told CBS Miami that he didn't serve the officer, because he was busy helping other customers. He said that the misunderstanding was the result of Mirabel trying to make a joke that did not go over well.

“We don’t hate cops,” Davenport said told the television station. “We don’t hate anybody. We’re just trying to get people out of the drive thru.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/02/arbys-apologizes-refuses--serve-florida-police-officer/71580310/

I recalled this from the incident, if we're to believe the guy's story it sounds like the "manager" tried to make a bad joke and it backfired.
Oh yeah, the Abry's one had that short mentioning of a joke. It still seems like there is either a missing piece from this story (the joke) as well as the other story, or some type of underground movement to not serve cops. Idk if that's a thing now or what. It's one thing if they expect a free meal or free stuff, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

From what I read before (too lazy to look it up again) is that they were busy, the dude said something about the other guy being short with him or something and the manager made a crack saying that he didn't want to serve him because he was a cop, which the original person said that wasn't true, they were just busy.

If it's accurate that one got canned and the other got reprimanded from this incident, I hope it was the manager who got canned for making a poor joke, and not the other guy, but I'm skeptic.
Ah ok. I was too lazy to research it further than if they mentioned exactly why within the first few sentences of the story.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-17 14:03:01  
Apathy is the devil, sir.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-09-17 14:13:26  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Well, I'm sorry that my state is so awesome that every other state has to create negative things and attribute it as a Texas-only trait just so they feel better about themselves...


There's an apt Woody Harrelson quote from that movie for this impasse. Enjoy some ELO instead.
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