Random Politics & Religion #00

Most people will never be a 'big name' in the music / art scene.

I've got a family friend who's spent 30+ years making side cash with pottery wheel skills he picked up in trade school. It's not his main job but the supplemental income helps and most of all he enjoys it.

You say that.

But that low end sound is what gets *** out of seats and shaking on the dance floor.

Male woodwinds are generally the ones you'll want to be picking on, if you really feel the need to emasculate someone. Flutes, clarinets, alto and soprano saxophones.

As for tubas, they don't sound awful. There just isn't a call for a lot of tuba solos.

Bubbles are great way to make money if you buy and sell at the right times.

Yeah.

But what would be better is avoiding them entirely and not using people's inevitable misfortune as a means of furthering your own interests.

There are degrees that flat out have horrible returns on the investment, and there are degrees that are the opposite. I know it would hurt feels to give preference to degrees that actually give quantifiable and positive net returns on the tax investment, but unless we want to dig an even bigger hole than we already have in terms of debt, then that's what has to be done.

Except when the arts are constantly defunded, downplayed, and minimized, of course they become less of a way of providing a wanted product and generating personal success.

It's a bunch of self-fulfilling pseudo-prophetic horse ***.

Edit: And yes that's a knee-jerk, feelings-based response. But unless you've never appreciated a piece of music or art, just stop. Someone has to produce that, and even the people who don't end up as actual performers often make it as engineers, techs, producers, etc.

Admittedly there's less of an opportunity for the non-music arts crowd. But as far as musicians at least, let's lay off.

It's an interesting idea, but the current structure of the financial system is centered around them. You would have to essentially dismantle the Fed, IMF, etc. and create a whole new monetary and banking system. Otherwise it's the inevitable outcome.

Again, you're talking planned economy nonsense. Pumping out tons of business degrees like those for-profit nightmare colleges has done little other than create tons of debt and worthless paper.

Stop using extremes like of "Art of Selfies", "Penisology" or "Early Vana'diel History" degree nonsense and be more reasonable, like state or community college offerings. Most of those 'make your own degree' programs are marketing jive to begin with. Almost everyone agrees they're pure ***and not worth the time.

Community college is more about meeting a baseline with the hopes you continue to a BA but failing that, at least you meet the minimum requirements for almost *any* job these days. Like I said, HS 2.0 and if that means you want to study music (which isn't a ridiculous degree) then so be it.

You could call an English degree nonsense but how many successful people went to school to study... you guessed it... English. Or Philosophy. Or Early Christian History. Who gets to decide what degrees are rubbish and what aren't?

While I'm not Lordgrim-level crazy -- at least, not in his Constitution-as-the-Bible fanatic fashion -- I would be all for that if done properly.

I'm all for the arts. I've been a singer for most of my life and I find great enjoyment in performance. I hate to hear about K-12 losing the ability to fund the arts. College, however, is where I draw the line. It has become so prohibitively expensive that trying to play the "all degrees are equal" card when it comes to tax money makes absolutely no economic sense. You can feelz your way out of prosperity, or you can put your big boy pants on and make the decisions that best affect the economic future of the country.

Also, as long as you've got the right foundation of electives, practically anything can be made "pre-law."

History and criminology are the most frequent in my experience, but just about anything will suffice and you just might need a few crim electives extra to catch up before digging into law school proper.

Lol, I was going to make the reference, but it's not exactly appropriate now.

Yeah, so would a lot of people. However, there is one main point overlooked. Basically it's the system that has evolved and the people who created it and keep it going aren't going to give it up at all. The realistic outlook is that it has become the 'best' system in terms of usefulness.

In order to remove and replace it, it would either take a massive amount of bloodshed or a very long period of time, filled with suffering of course.

I wanted to be a FBI agent. I don't even know what profile is required to be one. But it was one my ideas when I was wittle!

Italian version?

God, no!

The realistic outlook is that people got in power and have a stake in keeping it that way.

Not that it's the best system. Otherwise we're saying every country's current system is the "best" until someone manages to wrest power for themselves.

And I think we can agree that's patently untrue.

You mean like the STEM push at the elementary school level? The wheels have already been set in motion for a generation of analytic minds on all academic levels from public to charter to private. There's also a good chance that it's a bubble that will pop and the prosperity will amount to low paying coding jobs where people today currently make a mint solely because of the lacking persons with talent. I'm reminded of the sure-fire architecture boom pre-08 that ended with lots of people ready to build phantom houses.

(And that was considered a sound investment.)

The community college level is really about catching people who might otherwise become tax burdens on the economy. And that means getting a baseline 2yr degree. What you get it in really doesn't matter since most entry-level jerbs only want to see you commit to something. Or if you intend to pursue a BA, you could always major switch before the 4 year.

Also, we've slashed financial aid, *** up in college is a sure way to lose your FAFSA / gov't funds, work-study is already a thing so to say we're making 'bad investments' to get people 2 year diplomas is nonsense.

Trade school is also a discipline building exercise for those more talented with their hands and again serves to supply skills to those who would otherwise become lifelong tax burdens / drains.

Well that's great reasoning.

"We're already wasting so much money let's waste more."

Wait, are you saying that, if we fund, prop up, and maximize arts more, that they will create demand?

Or wouldn't you think that it would create a bunch more supply out there (you know, artists who think they are the best in the world but there aren't enough jobs out there to support them, like it is now)? I know that people here say that supply-sided economics is a myth (but the same people cannot explain why gas prices are so low without referring to that same "myth"), but there it is.

I actually feel like what's happened at this point is that no matter what you want your child to be, you'd better start them as early as possible. Music? Sports? Science? Technology?

Whatever it is, decide their life for them before they even know what their favorite ice cream flavor is or they'll never stand a chance at the very top echelons of their field.

I...see why. And it actually makes sense.

But it's incredibly *** depressing and I hold the entire notion with disdain. It's a path to the possibility of great success, but there's also serious potential for loathing, resentment, and a complete lack of personal fulfillment.

Which, really. Does this world need any less of that at this point?

If you think investing money in higher ed to get people work ready is a bad investment then I have nothing further to say to you since you're not serious about putting people to work and getting them involved in the economy.

Enjoy pumping out a generation of ISIS recruits.

Return on investment is a good metric for some things, but many professions that are incredibly important have very poor returns like teachers, social workers, etc. Part of the problem with business today is that everyone had to get a BBA/MBA and they all studied classic and quantitative management. Those schools drastically bloated the top end of most companies in the 80's and created miles and miles of completely hollow practices and collapsed the typical corporate hierarchy into a 2 tiered waste of money. The invention of the career manager is probably one of the absolute worst business developments and almost completely ended vertical advancement in companies.

oO we might actually reach a point where the topics of economics, education, and war/conflict all meet up in how society is shaped...

Probably shaped like a penis.

Don't forget location, religion, and historical context.

Maybe that degree in The Phallus from Occidental College isn't so useless after all.

Location falls under economics.
Religion - war/conflict.
Historical Context - education.

I have to disagree on this. Obviously, calculating the monetary return on teachers isn't cut and dry. But if you imagine a nation where teachers no longer exist, it's very plain to see that they are extremely important to economic stability. Now imagine a nation without ballet dancers. There's nothing wrong with ballet. It would suck to see something so artistic and technically difficult no longer exist. Could we survive without it? Absolutely.

The point is that we're already spending a ridiculous amount of money supporting a system that continually worsens the problem. So, instead of investing in long term solutions, people prefer to tout short term savings over long term stability. Raising the level of education and health for everyone makes everyone more competitive as an earner.