|
|
Random Politics & Religion #00
By Bloodrose 2015-09-03 19:01:35
Her lawyer Roger Gannam said: Davis' lawyer, Roger Gannam, said it was the first time in history an American citizen has been jailed for believing that marriage is a union between one man and one woman. He compared her willingness to accept imprisonment to what Martin Luther King Jr. did to advance civil rights.
"Kim Davis represents the best of us and everyone should lament and mourn the fact that her freedom has been taken away for what she believes," Gannam said.
I found this to be incredibly funny and stupid at the same time.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-03 19:03:47
She has been jailed for breaking the law, she has no case.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-09-03 19:05:39
Quote: He compared her willingness to accept imprisonment to what Martin Luther King Jr. did to advance civil rights. BAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-03 19:10:15
If your religion interferes with your duties at work, you should probably find another job. >.>
I'm sorry, but people like her are why people think religious people are crazy and why people think religion is detrimental.
[+]
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-03 20:32:27
I'd take jail over living in Kentucky any day ! 
[+]
By Jassik 2015-09-03 20:34:22
According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. That's some top shelf irony right there.
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 20:37:17
According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. Is that even allowed? That's like charging her for a crime that someone else committed, and raising money for someone is not even a crime...
[+]
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-03 20:37:49
According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. That's some top shelf irony right there.
The judge even told her that he himself was a Catholic and didn't allow his religious beliefs to interfere with his civic duties before sending her to jail.
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-03 20:37:50
According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. That's some top shelf irony right there.
I don't follow his logic, but that's interesting. I would think she would have to be jailed anyway if she continued to refuse to comply.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 20:40:30
According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. Is that even allowed? That's like charging her for a crime that someone else committed, and raising money for someone is not even a crime... According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. That's some top shelf irony right there.
I don't follow his logic, but that's interesting. I would think she would have to be jailed anyway if she continued to refuse to comply.
Well, the idea being that contempt charges are meant to be coercive, and forcing her to part with someone else's money wouldn't fit the bill.
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 20:42:51
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »According to the judge, the money her supporters raised and sent for her defense is the reason he chose to lock her up instead of simply fining her. That's some top shelf irony right there.
The judge even told her that he himself was a Catholic and didn't allow his religious beliefs to interfere with his civic duties before sending her to jail. Sounds like the judge is letting his personal bias effect his ruling.
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-03 20:43:54
Well, the idea being that contempt charges are meant to be coercive, and forcing her to part with someone else's money wouldn't fit the bill.
Ah, okay. That makes more sense. Maybe I should brush up on my knowledge of the law, the way real Americans do.
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 20:48:20
So let me get this straight.
This woman had a job.
She refuses to do the job.
Court steps in and says "do the job".
Woman still won't do the job.
Now court sends her to jail for not doing the job?
Since when was having a job something enforced by law?
Don't do your job = fired
Don't do your job should not = go to jail.
This isn't Soviet Russia FFS.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-03 20:50:40
I was in favor of fining her a hefty amount everyday until she was in compliance with the law, but I can see how donations could make that a non-issue. So yeah, send her to jail.
[+]
By Jassik 2015-09-03 20:51:03
Well, the idea being that contempt charges are meant to be coercive, and forcing her to part with someone else's money wouldn't fit the bill.
Ah, okay. That makes more sense. Maybe I should brush up on my knowledge of the law, the way real Americans do.
I was held in a contempt hearing at one point for disobeying a court order, along with about 25 other people. The judge decided that we were violating the order because we were completely unable to comply. It had to do with a vendor selling parts as DOT approved that weren't, and the owners of several shops that had installed them were compelled, by extension, to make sure those parts weren't used on public streets. However, they'd already been installed and none of us had possession of them. That's when I learned about the purpose of contempt penalties. None of us would be coerced into complying because we didn't have the ability to.
I don't miss owning a shop one bit.
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 20:51:53
All I see is some person not doing what they were payed to do. Just fire the person and move the *** on is what should be done. All this legal action is taking ***way over the top.
Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2015-09-03 20:52:15
So let me get this straight.
This woman had a job.
She refuses to do the job.
Court steps in and says "do the job".
Woman still won't do the job.
Now court sends her to jail for not doing the job?
Since when was having a job something enforced by law?
Don't do your job = fired
Don't do your job should not = go to jail.
This isn't Soviet Russia FFS.
You can't "fire" elected officials, a fact that's covered in basically every version of this news story a dozen times over. The jail time is for contempt of court, which, yes, is a jailable offense.
I know the bar for discourse is pretty low around here, but that's actually a major part of the whole thing. Read up a little, yo.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 20:52:52
So let me get this straight.
This woman had a job.
She refuses to do the job.
Court steps in and says "do the job".
Woman still won't do the job.
Now court sends her to jail for not doing the job?
Since when was having a job something enforced by law?
Don't do your job = fired
Don't do your job should not = go to jail.
This isn't Soviet Russia FFS.
She's an elected official, so they can't just fire her. I still find it hard to believe that there isn't a mechanism to suspend her or bar her from the building, obviously her being in custody has put the deputy clerks in a position to issue the licenses.
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 20:54:42
Trying to back read in this thread can be...trying.
It's like trying to find the actual meat in a McNugget.
Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2015-09-03 20:55:44
Trying to back read in this thread can be...trying.
It's like trying to find the actual meat in a McNugget.
I meant go find an actual news site or something.
I recommend the BBC, because the Brits don't give two shits about our politics for the most part and just write the damn story.
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 20:56:37
Trying to back read in this thread can be...trying.
It's like trying to find the actual meat in a McNugget.
I meant go find an actual news site or something.
I recommend the BBC, because the Brits don't give two shits about our politics for the most part and just write the damn story. I really like the BBC for that same reason.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-09-03 20:58:16
I find it pretty funny the internet and media is going all out on her today. The meme's today are just hilarious.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 21:00:27
Lot's of OITNB meme's popping up, that's for sure.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-09-03 21:16:38
Well, the idea being that contempt charges are meant to be coercive, and forcing her to part with someone else's money wouldn't fit the bill.
Ah, okay. That makes more sense. Maybe I should brush up on my knowledge of the law, the way real Americans do.
Would you like me to post a video of my beagles hysterically barking and howling when they hear the Law and Order "dun dun"? I think i'm gonna post a video of my beagles hysterically barking and howling when they hear the Law and Order "dun dun"
k?
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 21:46:48
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »So let me get this straight.
This woman had a job.
She refuses to do the job.
Court steps in and says "do the job".
Woman still won't do the job.
Now court sends her to jail for not doing the job?
Since when was having a job something enforced by law?
Don't do your job = fired
Don't do your job should not = go to jail.
This isn't Soviet Russia FFS.
This the perfect cause to champion fake "religious oppression/lack of freedom of religion" because it preys upon peoples ignorance very nicely.
People need to understand that freedom of religion isn't the same as freedom to carry out your religion on everyone else because that is your belief.
The hypocrisy is astounding. Not complying to provide a service is not the same as forcing ones beliefs on another. There is no freedom of religion if you aren't allowed to follow your own personal convictions in your religion.
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 21:54:51
Would you expect a Muslim catering service to provide pork?
And when they refuse would you claim they are forcing their beliefs on you?
[+]
Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2015-09-03 22:00:28
Would you expect a Muslim catering service to provide pork?
And when they refuse would you claim they are forcing their beliefs on you?
If they were elected to serve pork to the constituents of the county? Yes, I would.
Don't confuse private enterprise with functions of the government. Failing to provide a service of the state is a dereliction of duty. Separation of church and state is a real thing, and if she didn't want to do her job, she should have resigned, period.
You're either trolling, or being purposefully obtuse about the whole topic.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 22:01:17
Would you expect a Muslim catering service to provide pork?
And when they refuse would you claim they are forcing their beliefs on you?
I would expect them to comply with all applicable laws. But, you can't draw a parallel from this situation to a private business. Government employees aren't afforded the right to object on religious grounds, since the government is strictly separate from religious institutions
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 22:08:05
Would you expect a Muslim catering service to provide pork?
And when they refuse would you claim they are forcing their beliefs on you?
If they were elected to serve pork to the constituents of the county? Yes, I would.
Don't confuse private enterprise with functions of the government. Failing to provide a service of the state is a dereliction of duty. Separation of church and state is a real thing, and if she didn't want to do her job, she should have resigned, period.
You're either trolling, or being purposefully obtuse about the whole topic. Then impeach her.
Government employees are OUR EMPLOYEES. We own the government, NOT the other way around.
I don't view elected officials any different than the employee at McDonalds, except for the fact that I hired the official and not the McDonalds employee. This gives us the right to fire our own employees. McDonalds does not send their employees to McPrison for failing to do their job and neither should we. Just simply fire the woman and move on.
I'm stating the truth as I see it and if that offends anyone I will pray for them. I will not be ashamed or intimidated when it comes to bringing light to the truth.
Random Politics & Religion is for topics that aren't thread worthy on their own and do not have their own existing thread.
Rules and Guidelines
Forum Rules and P&R Section Guidelines still apply.
Satire is tolerated.
If your topic covers a story over 6 months old (Watergate, Benghazi, 2012 Election, etc.) post it here.
Discussions on racism, homophobia, transphobia, and the like are allowed, targeted insults based on these will not be tolerated.
Political debates get heated and are meant to be intense, if you take offense to being called or proven wrong, you don't belong here.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen; if you prove you can't handle the criticism you bring upon yourself in this thread, you may be removed from it. You are responsible for what you post.
Along those lines, heat is fine, but sustained, clearly personal hostility is not okay. The personal attack rules still apply. Attack positions, not posters. Failure to adhere to this will result in your removal from the thread.
This thread is NOT the Flame Core.
These rules are subject to change and modification where and when needed.
Random Politics & Religion may be mained or demained depending on the activity within at a Moderator's discretion.
With that out of the way, let the debates begin!
/bow
|
|
