Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-01 00:44:16  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
I don't get it either. Apart from "punishing" any non-profit by making them pay taxes, what is so special about churches? What public service do they perform that secular non-profits don't?

You don't get it, but you practically answered the question? It would be singling them out. The conversation isn't about how non-profits should pay taxes, it's about churches. Why is it about churches and not other non-profits? Because you don't like them. For most of you guys it hasn't even been about holding them to the same standards as non-profits, as it's all about singling them out for a tax. For the extremists, it's even about singling out the ones specifically that don't endorse gay marriage. It's punishing them for their views. If you can't see it now, you're blind.

Uh, no, it would be holding them to the same standards secular non-profits are and would be held to.

Seriously, your assertion is that treating churches the same as everyone else is singling them out because... reasons.

I'll give you a visualization. Non-profit A is a secular organization that sets up adoptions. Non-profit B is a religious organization that sets up adoptions. Why is it singling the religious one out by requiring them to adhere to the same standards as the secular one? This isn't the IRS sitting at the end of the pew and taking 30% out of the collection plate.

Did you even read what I said? I said the act of taxing them but not taxing other non-profits would be singling them out. Holding them to the same standards would be, *shock*, holding them to the same standards. Seriously, pay attention.

I paid attention. Nobody is suggesting taxing only churches. And churches have enjoyed a mountain of preferential treatment and benefit of the doubt for decades. Why even mention a scenario where churches are specifically targeted? Because you are trying to tiptoe around admitting that religious organization already get preferential treatment.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-01 00:48:54  
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
fonewear said: »
Since when do secular people care so much about religion so much ? Is this late breaking news or something.

When they have a chance to harm it, they suddenly take great interest.
If your religion is harmed by having to pay taxes... that says quite a bit, doesn't it?

See? It just keeps going with you people. You don't care about fairness with other non-profits, you're just looking for any rationale you can muster to justify putting a hole in the coffers of churches. How about I rephrase this for you?

Bahamut.Milamber said: »
If your secular, non-profit organization is harmed by having to pay taxes... that says quite a bit, doesn't it?
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-01 00:50:37  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Nobody is suggesting taxing only churches.

Confirmed. You're blind. Goodnight.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 02:09:56  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
fonewear said: »
Since when do secular people care so much about religion so much ? Is this late breaking news or something.

When they have a chance to harm it, they suddenly take great interest.
If your religion is harmed by having to pay taxes... that says quite a bit, doesn't it?

See? It just keeps going with you people. You don't care about fairness with other non-profits, you're just looking for any rationale you can muster to justify putting a hole in the coffers of churches. How about I rephrase this for you?

Bahamut.Milamber said: »
If your secular, non-profit organization is harmed by having to pay taxes... that says quite a bit, doesn't it?

Your rephrase is correct, it can apply both ways. Unlike secular organizations, however, churches are given an automatic pass on many requirements.

Churches receive prefential treatment from the IRS compared to ALL other non-profits.

Only under certain circumstances may they be audited.

They do not have to register with the IRS nor do they have to file annual reports. Automatic exemption for churches p.3

Personally, as long as churches adhere to the "stay out of substantial lobbying and endorcing politicians clause" that is required of them, I don't care. When they start spending money and time to create religious laws or adovate for a politician-like propposition 8 and Pulpit freedom Sunday- they should lose the privilage (not a right) of being tax exempt.
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 Siren.Fattynoob
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By Siren.Fattynoob 2015-07-01 04:02:46  
Seems Hillary didn't turn in all her emails after all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/state-dept-gets-libya-emails-that-clinton-didnt-hand-over.html?_r=0



Lol. What will be the democratic cult's new excuses?
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-01 07:08:09  
Oh look, Benghazi.

I thought we weren't going to beat a dead horse today, glad we dodged that one.

Also your conclusion is flawed, all you know is that the sub committee is claiming that the state department didn't hand them everything. You have no idea if Clinton gave the department everything she was required to, I mean it's right there in your own link.

/bored
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 07:08:58  
Jetackuu said: »
Oh look, Benghazi.

I thought we weren't going to beat a dead horse today, glad we dodged that one.

Well I'll take anything to get rid of the tax the church movement. Which seems to be a thing now.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 07:10:48  
You guys better pick up the phone and call Everset now. You're sitting there in FFXIAH day after day posting the same ***. No pick up the phone and call now !

TLDR: Cutting funding to for profit colleges.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/barack-obama-pushes-for-profit-colleges-to-the-brink-119613.html?hp=t3_r
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-01 07:10:51  
fonewear said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Oh look, Benghazi.

I thought we weren't going to beat a dead horse today, glad we dodged that one.

Well I'll take anything to get rid of the tax the church movement. Which seems to be a thing now.
You'll take anything alright.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 07:13:33  
A moment for the best commercial ever:


YouTube Video Placeholder
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 07:17:15  
What the commercial should be like:

Hey guys you like college we like college too sign up now !
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 07:52:18  
Meanwhile in LGBT/Facebook news:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/28/facebook-rainbow-colored-profiles-san-francisco-pride


Within hours of the supreme court’s Friday decision on same-sex marriage, people with a certain number of progressively minded friends found their Facebook news feeds dominated by rainbow-colored profile pictures created by a special link on the website.

The gambit successfully put Facebook’s equality credentials in the spotlight. But it was challenged on Saturday at San Francisco Pride, an event the company sponsored.

The Radical Faeries, one of the more idiosyncratic groups at San Francisco’s Pride, said the festival should dump Facebook as a sponsor because of the company’s ban on adopted names.

The policy was unfair to LGBT people who use adopted names to avoid homophobia or to express their true identity, they said.

“I don’t like anybody telling me who I am or have to be,” said Storm Arcana, 42, seated on a rug in the Faerie Freedom Village, a colourful camp near city hall.

“That’s anathema to my essence. I’m self-defined and self-described and that is my right.” He objected to Facebook sponsoring Pride. “There’s too much of a contrast between what they represent and what we represent.”

In response, a Facebook spokesperson told the Guardian on Sunday: “Facebook is proud of our commitment to diversity and our support of the LGBTQ community as a company and an employer.

“We have been strong supporters of the San Francisco parade for many years. Last year more than 1,500 people associated with Facebook marched in the San Francisco parade, and this year we are participating in 12 celebrations around the world.”

The #MyNameIs organization has been fighting for Facebook to change its name policy. At San Francisco pride, it demonstrated against the policy.

The group is led by San Francisco-based drag queens but also includes domestic abuse survivors, Native Americans and other people who feel that they should be allowed to use names different from those that appear on their birth certificate. Facebook, which has met members of the group, has slightly amended its policy but insists that it distinguishes itself from other social networks by refusing to let people be anonymous.

“This policy directly harms LGBTQ people, especially transgender and *** people around the world who face daily discrimination, and use social media like Facebook to find support, build community, and express their authentic selves,” said organizer and drag queen Lil Miss Hot Mess in a statement.

“Facebook may seem like a trivial waste of time, but for trans people and LGBTQ youth who face disproportionate rates of violence and suicide, it can literally be a lifeline.”

The #MyNameIs group tried to ban Facebook from the parade with an online petition that collected more than 2,500 signatures. Facebook did not respond to requests for comment.

But the company remained as a sponsor, to the dismay of the #MyNameIs organizers and the Radical Faeries, a group which blends counter-cultural values, *** consciousness and spirituality.

Many members said they had been expelled from Facebook because they could not supply documentation to prove their adopted names were real.

Lovely Day, a 48-year-old woman who adopted that name six years ago, said Facebook suspended her account on Christmas Day, saying she needed to prove its authenticity. The suspension came soon after she posted videos of controversial police shootings, prompting her suspicion that trolls who disliked her viewpoint alerted Facebook.

She lamented that the company was a festival sponsor.

“I’m not really into it but I can’t change what corporate dollars do,” she said.

Day had a consolation: she is still able to use a Facebook account registered as Bobbi Terri, the names of two plastic trans dolls she takes on trips.

“I can’t have an account,” she said, “but the dolls, sure.”

Other Faeries accused the tech giant of wanting to use only names that appeared on credit cards in order to monetize data.

Stellara Solanum, 31, bristled that he must use his birth name, Kevin Faulkner, on Facebook even though friends know him as Stellara, which he considers more meaningful.

“My housemate spent a lot more getting to know me before naming me than my parents did,” he said.

Solanum said he now struggled to recognise friends on Facebook because they were obliged to use birth names which he did not recognise.

“Now it’s, who the hell is John Stone? It’s disconnecting me.”

The problem was gravest for *** people facing homophobic threats, and Native Americans, he said, adding: “They’re the ones I feel sorry for.”

On Saturday, a former Facebook employee wrote on Medium that her profile was suspended because she goes by a name different from the one she was born with. She said the ban happened while she was at trans pride on Friday, the day the supreme court announced that same-sex marriage is legal in every US state.

“If you’re a marginalised person, such as a trans person, you may be left with no way to get back on,” she wrote.

“Facebook have handed an enormous hammer to those who would like to silence us, and time after time I see that hammer coming down on trans women who have just stepped out of line by suggesting that perhaps we’re being mistreated.”
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-07-01 09:04:58  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Paying taxes is punishment? I pay them. What am I being punished for?

Oh good, just let me impose additional taxes on you that you aren't paying right now simply because I don't like the way that you view things. Clearly it's no big deal to you.
Additional taxes are about to be imposed on me because the county I live in isn't governed correctly, shitty deals were made and no one knows how to manage money... so? Can we add them in for those reasons?
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 09:08:53  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Confirmed. You're blind. Goodnight.

If I refuse to see the point it doesn't exist.

<mental disorder>

I like how everyone is drifting ever so slowly away from "We'll never use the gay marriage ruling to attack the church" to "well they didn't deserve tax exempt status anyways."
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-07-01 09:17:37  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You cannot remove religion from government unless you remove all religious people from government. Religion motivates and shapes people. Its teachings have played a role in the development of laws on all sides of the political spectrum.
And you don't see a problem with this?

Whether or not people who are in office have religion in their life it should not affect their decision making ability when they are in office. If anyone's reasoning behind making any decision in government is "because god said so" should not be taken seriously.

I have no problem with any representative defending the rights of practicing religion but when you try to legislate on god's behalf that crosses a line.

Going off a little bit here but personally I don't get why people wouldn't want to serve or make something for a homosexual marriage. I also don't think they should be forced to. When you try to defend that position though what is the defense? Where in the bible does god decree that you should not serve at any kind of service for homosexuals? Where does it say that this act would condemn you to hell? It's stuff like this... Many people like to use something to further their own predjudice and try to use something else to justify it that holds some kind of weight. This is not everyone but yeah. The golden rule and all... treat everyone as you would want to be treated unless they're gay or whatever other qualification they didn't meet. You shouldn't use religion as a means to discriminate against others. Don't agree with something? Fine. Discriminate against someone cuz "god" don't be surprised when people don't like that.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-07-01 09:20:58  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Confirmed. You're blind. Goodnight.

If I refuse to see the point it doesn't exist.

<mental disorder>

I like how everyone is drifting ever so slowly away from "We'll never use the gay marriage ruling to attack the church" to "well they didn't deserve it anyways."
You don't have to keep telling us about your mental disorder... just go get help.

I like how religious institutions discriminated against groups of people and now cry foul the minute the shoe goes on the other foot. Hypocrites all! We can do it but if you try to you're just meanies!
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 09:27:45  
Why is it every discussion of religion is a ***fest that never ends !

Can we get back to what is really important Hillary !

The amount of time wasted discussing religion could be used on more useful things. Like ...hell another religion topic...well I tried !

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/rainbow-flag-girl-zea_n_7702856.html?cps=gravity_2425_-5054897900974522724

I guess if you hold a flag you are a umm patriot or something ? I don't know.

YouTube Video Placeholder


Sometimes, the loudest voice is the one that doesn't say a word -- just ask this little girl.

Zea, a 7-year-old first grader, stood firm in the face of hate over the weekend at a celebration of the Supreme Court ruling that legalized same-sex marriage. When a preacher began ranting at her through a microphone, little Zea quietly waved her rainbow flag and never backed down.

Once again, #LoveWins.

Her father, Ryan Bowling, posted video of the remarkable confrontation on YouTube. He wrote that it took place over the weekend at ComFest, an annual music and arts festival in Columbus, Ohio that turned into an impromptu celebration of Friday's decision.

"Zea didn't just flash the flag at that hatemonger, and bail. They went toe to toe, for several minutes, while he bellowed all of his fire and brimstone right in her face," Bowling wrote on Facebook. "Grown man vs first grader. She told me afterward that she did feel scared. The one thing the people of ‪#‎comfest2015‬ never let her feel though? Alone."

The encounter was also caught on camera by Zea's father:
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-01 10:24:15  
In light of the various jokes and things made around here, and how frequently we "Godwin it", a somber moment of Holocaust news:

'British Schindler' Sir Nicholas Winton dies aged 106

Quote:
Sir Nicholas Winton, who organised the rescue of 669 children destined for Nazi concentration camps, has died aged 106.

Winton was working as a stock broker when he arranged trains to carry Jewish children from occupied Prague to Britain.

His son-in-law Stephen Watson confirmed he had died.

Further reading on the man:
Nicholas Winton's children: The Czech Jews rescued by 'British Schindler'
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 10:35:55  
You had me at Jew ! At least it isn't a Jewish people shouldn't pay synagogue taxes !
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-07-01 10:36:12  
Hillary lied, people died!
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 10:36:57  
Siren.Mosin said: »
Hillary lied, people died!

The thing is she lies all the time so I guess you could say it is normal.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-01 10:41:19  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Confirmed. You're blind. Goodnight.

If I refuse to see the point it doesn't exist.

<mental disorder>

I like how everyone is drifting ever so slowly away from "We'll never use the gay marriage ruling to attack the church" to "well they didn't deserve it anyways."

Let me help you understand. His point is weak. Churches are already given preferential treatment, asking them to follow the same rules isn't singling them out.

TL:DR - I see the point, it's ***.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 10:57:32  
This thread died 725 pages ago what is left is well what you have now !
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 10:59:24  
Example:

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
How 'bout
  • No massive shitposting or intentional derailing allowed.


Then maybe this won't devolve into the steaming heap of used diapers most P&R threads become.

Why come up with a rule you cannot follow?

And we're already basically calling people hypocrites on page 1? Awww yeah, this is gonna be a fun thread. =D

Couldn't even make it past page 1 without thread already devolving into a ***storm ! That is why we love the internet.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 11:31:21  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Confirmed. You're blind. Goodnight.

If I refuse to see the point it doesn't exist.

<mental disorder>

I like how everyone is drifting ever so slowly away from "We'll never use the gay marriage ruling to attack the church" to "well they didn't deserve it anyways."
You said churches would be required to marry gay people. Taxes were NEVER mentioned in your doom predictions
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-01 11:57:01  
Cmon gents, peddle more fear. Your religion depends on it.

I want to hear about Christians thrown to gay lions and LBGT death squads forcing you to convert or be run through by gay steel ***.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-01 12:15:48  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Confirmed. You're blind. Goodnight.

If I refuse to see the point it doesn't exist.

<mental disorder>

I like how everyone is drifting ever so slowly away from "We'll never use the gay marriage ruling to attack the church" to "well they didn't deserve it anyways."

Let me help you understand. His point is weak. Churches are already given preferential treatment, asking them to follow the same rules isn't singling them out.

TL:DR - I see the point, it's ***.

You see that bolded part? I pretty much said that exact same thing 532 times and you still don't see it. I hate to pull the whole reading comprehension thing, but holy crap do you take it to a new level.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 12:20:32  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Cmon gents, peddle more fear. Your religion depends on it.

I want to hear about Christians thrown to gay lions and LBGT death squads forcing you to convert or be run through by gay steel ***.

LGBT death squad is probably a better movie than this:

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 12:24:05  
What is next federal and state laws for anti discrimination that is what is next !

http://www.npr.org/2015/07/01/418838989/after-supreme-court-decision-whats-next-for-gay-rights-groups


Matt McTighe is heading up the new campaign. It will use the same strategic playbook with a lot of the same players. The goal is to win federal and state LGBT non-discrimination laws.
Supporters of same-sex marriages gather outside the U.S. Supreme Court on April 28, in Washington, D.C.
U.S.
The Economic Reality Of The Same-Sex Marriage Ruling
The crowd reacts as the ruling on same-sex marriage was announced outside of the Supreme Court in Washington, D.C., Friday.
Shots - Health News
Supreme Court's Decision On Same-Sex Marriage Expected To Boost Health Coverage
A crowd waves rainbow flags during the Heritage Pride March in New York on Sunday.
U.S.
After Marriage Equality, What's Next For The LGBT Movement?

"We have this great army of really experienced, trained people and now hopefully could deploy them to this next fight," he says.

Jason Rahlan works with Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest LGBT advocacy group. He says the organization will not be downsizing, just pivoting to other issues like non-discrimination laws and electing more LGBT-friendly candidates.

Janson Wu, executive director of the advocacy group GLAD in Massachusetts — where same-sex marriage was won 11 years ago — says the victory frees up resources for a broader agenda.

"That should be the bare minimum. Now what if we were to set our sights on LGBT-inclusive curriculum," he asks. "What if we ensure that every student learned about the LGBT movement and learned about the heroes of our movement in their history classes."

Advocates concede it may be more challenging to rally public support and dollars for causes that may be less obvious or visceral than marriage.

"The risk is that the resources will decline if we're not creative," says Marc Solomon from Freedom To Marry. He says advocates will find ways to make a compelling case.

"When I first got involved in the marriage fights, we were out selling pieces of wedding cake at pride parades for five bucks a pop," he says. "This sounds very business-y, but it's about creating a real demand for what you're doing. And that means being persuasive to donors to demonstrate that the cause is important."

In the meantime, LGBT advocates will also still spend some of their time on marriage, either changing hearts and minds that remain out of sync with what is now law, or vigilantly fighting against backlash.

"What's clear is that our work is far from over," says Chad Griffin, president of Human Rights Campaign. He flew this week to Texas, where some clerks have denied marriage licenses on religious grounds.

"Public servants, including clerks, should serve the entire public. It's that simple," he says.

Another group, Lambda Legal, launched a website this week tracking potential trouble spots. So those who've been fighting for the right to marry say they'll still keep busy trying to enforce it.
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