Random Politics & Religion #00

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-06-22 20:34:59  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Huh, apparently its becoming a pattern with certain posters to answer questions with questions.
I come from New York city.

New Yorkers ALWAYS answer questions with questions.

What's your excuse Nausi?

Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm reminded of my Jr. high history teacher teaching us about the civil war, making the argument that you can't reduce the conflict to "slavery". He flunked anyone who did, as it demonstrated "a severe lack of critical thinking skills".
There are bad teachers, surprise.
There was a LOT more to it than slavery.

Slavery was how they sold it though.

Quote:
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Whats the basis for flying the confederate flag again?

To push people's buttons. Seriously, though, you don't see people flying swastika's very often. Not because less people are aware of it's original meaning, but because it's far more acceptable to be passively racist against blacks than jews.
1% bikers fly the Nazi swastika a LOT. I knew quite a few 1%s. Didn't bother me much but I would not buy a motorcycle from any who did wear or fly it.

White supremacists fly it too. Fair bit of overlap between those groups.

Edit, paged.



If you let it bother you it gains power over you.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-22 20:37:40  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You know the swastika symbolizes something OTHER than Nazism right?

Are you admitting there aren't multiple layers to what the confederate flag symbolizes?
 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-06-22 21:03:15  
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-06-22 21:27:22  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You know the swastika symbolizes something OTHER than Nazism right?

Are you admitting there aren't multiple layers to what the confederate flag symbolizes?
You failed history class huh?
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-22 21:30:35  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
1% bikers fly the Nazi swastika a LOT. I knew quite a few 1%s. Didn't bother me much but I would not buy a motorcycle from any who did wear or fly it.

White supremacists fly it too. Fair bit of overlap between those groups.

Largely because they bother cater to the same psyche. Outcasts looking for a place to belong.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-22 22:19:35  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You know the swastika symbolizes something OTHER than Nazism right?

Are you admitting there aren't multiple layers to what the confederate flag symbolizes?
You failed history class huh?

You're not much of a linguist, so I'll help you out. I'm making fun of your tired lines about states rights.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-06-22 22:41:43  
Great article on Bernie Sanders:

Will Bernie Sanders start a revolution?
CNN

Quote:
Burlington, Vermont (CNN)It wouldn't be the first time a revolution sparked in New England changed the world.

But two and a half centuries after the insurrection that birthed America, the idea that a rumpled radical like 73-year-old Vermont socialist Bernie Sanders could overthrow the U.S. economic, health care and tax systems seems farfetched at best.

Yet that's exactly the task the fiery U.S. senator has set himself in a presidential campaign targeting billionaire "oligarchs" who he says have hijacked America's economy and inflicted misery on the middle class.

Sanders, an agitator who doesn't suffer fools, political opponents or journalists gladly, is testing whether the kind of populist, liberal agenda that gave him 75% approval ratings in his adopted home state can catch fire nationwide.

READ: Bernie Sanders' brotherly love

"Brothers and sisters: Now is not the time for thinking small," Sanders told thousands of supporters in Burlington on Tuesday.

"Now is not the time for the same-old, same-old establishment politics and stale inside-the-Beltway ideas," Sanders said in an implicit denunciation of the runaway front-runner for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton.

The obstacles Sanders faces in the presidential primary race, however, are immense.

Sanders has no viable countrywide political organization, so he must foment a grassroots uprising. His task is complicated by the fact that although he caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate, he has always been a political independent wary of formal party affiliations.

Taking on the Clinton machine

He must take on the Clinton political machine that has retooled after its defeat in 2008. He's a minnow in the money game in a campaign that will be awash in billions of dollars.

He's not exactly a polished pol either, with an unrepentant message of class warfare that makes him an unlikely candidate to win over Middle America.

And many Democrats are only beginning to learn who Sanders actually is. He's a long shot, but has shown some momentum since indicating he would take the plunge into the presidential race late last month. In a new Quinnipiac University poll released on Thursday, Sanders was at 15% of Democratic voters nationwide, up from the 5% he managed in a CNN national poll last month.

His campaign launch, on a Lake Champlain boardwalk that he saved from developers as Burlington's mayor, had the air of a hippie revival or a folk festival.

One woman twirled a hula hoop and shouted "Hooping for Bernie"; people lined up for free helpings of locally made Ben and Jerry's ice cream; and kids carried banners naming Sanders their political superhero. Vermont-based warm-up act Mango Jam pumped out a fusion of Zydeco, Cajun and Caribbean rhythms.

The place pulsed with the hopeful political energy that is unique to the start of U.S. presidential campaigns when anything seems possible -- even in minute, ultraliberal blue states with three electoral votes.

Of course, in the highly unlikely scenario that Sanders is elected president, enacting his revolutionary agenda faces even greater odds. Another long-shot, transformational president has already demonstrated how hard turning campaign slogans into reality can be.

If there's one lesson of Barack Obama's White House, it's that passing social reforms such as Obamacare -- which falls way short of the kind of single-payer health system Sanders prefers -- can be almost impossible and exact a heavy political price.

Sanders surely knows this.

He might be a dreamer, but he knows the realities of politics: A pragmatic streak leavened his idealism during four terms as mayor; he railed against the Iraq war but became a champion of veterans in the Senate.

So it may be fair to question whether, unlike his devoted Vermont cadres, a politician as experienced as Sanders thinks he can actually win the presidency, especially as political reality is weighted against him.

America's middle class, while hurting, is hardly a simmering proletariat ready for the economic shock therapy he prescribes.

Opponents attack Vermont's record

And political opponents argue that for all his flamboyance, Vermont has not done that well in the Sanders era.

"Fear and frustration are a powerful political cocktail," said a statement from the Vermont Republican Party on Tuesday.

"All you have to do is take a good look at Vermont's demographic and economic realities -- and our growing crisis of affordability -- to get a good look at what the hangover from a Sanders administration would look and feel like."

But to simply write off the Sanders campaign as some kind of personal vanity project, or a token quest to insert progressive values into the 2016 campaign, does him an injustice.

His messages, the timing of his campaign, the polls and his personal qualities suggest that the Sanders campaign could end up more than a flight of political fancy and become a real headache for the Clinton machine.

For starters, the 2016 Democratic primary campaign seems to be shaping itself around the issues of economic justice and fairness for which he first fought amid the political turmoil of 1960s Chicago where he was a student.

READ: Bernie Sanders takes aim at Wall Street in presidential launch

In a recent interview with CNN, the candidate's UK-based brother Larry disputed the notion that Sanders is a man of the fringe.

"I don't think we are out of the mainstream. I think that what we have noticed is that the mainstream has been ignored for a long time," he said.

While the solutions that Bernie Sanders advocates to fix America's problems are radical, his diagnosis of the national mood is not.

Health care, child care, college and medical costs preoccupy middle class families, whomever they vote for, a fact reflected in the way Clinton and Republicans Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and Rick Santorum have emphasized income inequality in their campaigns.

One advantage Sanders may have over this crowd is the crucial elixir of presidential runs -- "authenticity" -- said Vermont University political science professor Garrison Nelson, who has known Sanders for decades.

"Bernie Sanders has been saying these same things for over 40 years. Bernie is not tailoring his speeches to the agenda. The agenda has caught up with Bernie Sanders."

Another way Sanders debunks the hopeless crusade metaphor is that he's not just some political gadfly. He narrowly won his first race for mayor, then got elected over and over again, and has been in Congress for a quarter century.

Iowa could be a tough sell for Sanders

But it's not a given that his brusque style and pyrotechnical calls for a revolution will go down well in Iowa, for instance, where voters like to be wooed rather than harangued.

"It is going to be a hard sell," said Nelson, who said his friend must find a sweet spot on the issue of income inequality. "Bernie is counting on that -- that degree of resentment and that degree of anger."

While Sanders is a novelty in Iowa, he's a known commodity in New Hampshire -- where the overlap from the Burlington media market makes him well-known and could give him a leg up in the primary campaign.

But Sanders must also show that he has got the financial muscle to even get that far -- though he says he is certain he can raise $50 million, after quickly pulling in contributions of around $4 million within days of first saying he would run for president.

"That should give him enough money to be competitive in the four early states," said Eric Davis, a veteran Vermont political analyst and professor emeritus at Middlebury College, referring to Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada.

READ: Windfall at Bernie's: Sanders raises $1.5 million in 24 hour

But Davis asked: "What state is his campaign going to be in at the end of those four early contests?"

And if by some miracle he won the nomination, he would then find it difficult to counter questions about whether his left-wing politics would be palatable to a wider electorate.

Still, polls suggest that Sanders is a viable candidate to be the leading alternative to Clinton among Democrats -- though he lags behind the former first lady by 50%.

A Quinnipiac University poll in Iowa found that 15% of likely caucus goers would back him while 18% of likely Democratic voters in New Hampshire prefer him -- numbers that give him a genuine platform in the race.

He's ahead of other possible Democratic long shots, including former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley and former Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia.

And while he may not beat Clinton, Sanders can at least shape the economic debate in the Democratic primary and force her to confront her liabilities on trade and the influence of big money in politics.

Appealing to liberal Democrats

Clinton will also be wary of alienating liberal Democrats who support Sanders and are suspicious of her candidacy, but whom she needs to swell her margins in Midwestern swing states if she is to win the general election.

Sanders' hopes of causing a stir in 2016 also depend on his capacity to show the side of his character that has won him such a loyal following in Vermont, where he has convinced voters he is on their side.

Ann Taylor of Burlington, a self described "old hippie," said Sanders was pushing a message that America needed to hear: "This is probably the only candidate that is going to fight for working people. And I know he is influencing Sen. Clinton. Bernie will do so much for working people, it is unbelievable."

It's rare to find a lawmaker or leader who is as beloved on his home turf as Sanders. The key to his popularity may lie to some extent in Vermont's compact geography and a population that is much smaller than that of many American cities. He will have a harder time making personal connections in a presidential race.

So the fate of the Sanders campaign likely lies in whether the rest of America, and not just liberal Vermont, is hankering for a liberal class warrior who shoots from the lip.
 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-06-22 22:45:25  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You know the swastika symbolizes something OTHER than Nazism right?

Are you admitting there aren't multiple layers to what the confederate flag symbolizes?
You failed history class huh?

You're not much of a linguist, so I'll help you out. I'm making fun of your tired lines about states rights.

Yea! Because Racism, Slavery, and Feels haven't been used enough!
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-23 00:08:03  
It's a strange situation when diversity is celebrated and encouraged, but freedom of thought and expression are derided and shut down whenever they inconvenience the "Great Cause".
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-23 01:30:41  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You know the swastika symbolizes something OTHER than Nazism right?

Are you admitting there aren't multiple layers to what the confederate flag symbolizes?
You failed history class huh?

You're not much of a linguist, so I'll help you out. I'm making fun of your tired lines about states rights.
Wow, you really hate the Bill Rights, don't you?
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-06-23 02:06:06  
It is the only thing standing in the way..
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-23 02:28:57  
Hmm...

Quote:
President Barack Obama said Monday that Americans stand united in rejecting the targeting of any religious or ethnic group as he marked Islam's holy month of Ramadan.

Obama opened the White House to Muslim Americans for a traditional iftar dinner, which follows daily fasting from dawn to sunset. Ramadan ends with the Islamic holiday of Eid al-Fitr.

"We affirm that whatever our faith, we're all one family," Obama said at the East Room dinner attended by about 40 members of the diplomatic community and a few members of Congress.

He recognized several young dinner guests, including Samantha Elauf, who went to the Supreme Court to defend her right to wear a headscarf, or hijab. She was 17 in 2008 when she was rejected for a sales job at an Abercrombie Kids store in Tulsa, Oklahoma, after wearing a hijab to the interview.

"She was determined to defend the right to wear a hijab — to have the same opportunities as everybody else," Obama said. "She went all the way to the Supreme Court — which I didn't do at her age — and she won."

Obama spoke of three young Muslims who were killed Feb. 10 in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and the nine black church members killed last week in Charleston, South Carolina.

"As Americans, we insist that nobody should be targeted because of who they are, what they look like, who they love, how they worship," he said. "We stand united against these hateful acts."
Obama hosts annual Ramadan dinner at White House
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-23 02:46:00  
And Rubio loses all creditability... Good laugh though.

Quote:
Republican presidential hopeful Senator Marco Rubio has called on US President Barack Obama to stop rhetoric against China and impose sanctions on the country over the hacking allegation.

In a letter to Obama on Monday, Rubio called China’s measures “irresponsible” and “destabilizing.”

The United States accuses China of hacking the data of up to four million former and current government employees. The allegation was denied.

“If it is to be dissuaded from continuing down this dangerous path, Beijing’s provocations must be met with more than mere rhetoric,” he wrote.

The Republican senator said the US president should use the summit of US-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue this week to put further pressure on Beijing.

He said Obama should convey to China that “as additional evidence comes to light, the US will consider imposing sanctions against any Chinese government agencies or commercial enterprise found to have been involved in the recent cyberattack.”

American officials said earlier this month hackers had broken into the computer system of the Office of Personnel Management.

The hackers appear to have gained access to sensitive background information on US intelligence and military personnel that could potentially expose them to blackmail.

Following the massive hack, the White House announced that the US will impose economic sanctions on the hackers.

China has dismissed the recent hacking allegations as "irresponsible and unscientific."

Beijing says Washington’s cyber attack accusations are hypocritical, since intelligence leaks have revealed that the US itself is the most active perpetrator of cyber espionage against foreign countries, especially against China.
Obama urged to impose sanctions on China over hacking allegation
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 06:46:30  
Bill of rights didn't Obama replace those with a message saying "Deal with it Suckers !
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-23 07:18:33  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Wow, you really hate the Bill Rights, don't you?

Given that there are amendments to amendments, let's go ahead and pull back a little on the hyperbole.
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-23 07:28:02  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
It's a strange situation when diversity is celebrated and encouraged, but freedom of thought and expression are derided and shut down whenever they inconvenience the "Great Cause".

What part of "freedom of expression is a wonderful thing, but being a divisive, racist, borderline treasonous asshat isn't" aren't you getting?

Then again, I don't see you defending the "freedom of expression" of ISIS' world views. Domestic extremists and terrorists, though...let's go ahead and let them be terrible people, spreading their messages of hate to everyone.

But it's different when brown people express their freedom of thought, right?
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 07:45:58  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
It's a strange situation when diversity is celebrated and encouraged, but freedom of thought and expression are derided and shut down whenever they inconvenience the "Great Cause".

This is America you have to believe what I believe ! Otherwise you are a racist bigot or homophobic !

If we don't all agree on social issues the terrorists win !
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 07:50:46  
If the majority finds the confederate flag offensive well. Popular opinion wins !

Don't think logically follow the "herd"
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-23 07:50:58  
fonewear said: »
This is America you have to believe what I believe ! Otherwise you are a racist bigot or homophobic !

You're confused.

You're free to be a racist, homophobe, misogynist, whatever you want. You are, in fact, free. You're perfectly free to be all those things at once if you want. Like Nausi.

You're even free to keep crying when someone calls you on your intolerant ***.

The confusion comes when people like Nausi say it's equally intolerent to not "accept" those things as okay.

You're free to be a piece of ***. The government will even protect your ability to be one, even while you're busy calling them every dirty name in the book for not persecuting the people you don't like while you're busy hiding behind that shield of freedom of expression...the shield provided by the same government you're badmouthing...
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 07:56:18  
So freedom of expression is good just don't use dirty names. I got it !
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 07:57:40  
Long as you don't use "hate speech" whatever that is. Basically anything that offends my sensibilities. Is uncalled for and should be banned.
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By Drama Torama 2015-06-23 08:00:50  
Let's be real specific about what that freedom is, since people don't seem to grasp it.

Freedom of Speech, as enshrined in the Constitution, is about freedom from government persecution for your beliefs. It's not illegal to be a racist, homophobe, Dane Cook fan, whatever. The cops aren't going to show up because you say something, unless your words show a clear and present danger to public safety (fire in a theater, threats, etc).

What it does not mean is that you are free to spout whatever you like without consequence. People can (and will) disagree, you can be fired from your job, banned from forums, and you can be shunned by society as a whole. This is why people with these opinions tend to band together in echo-chambery groups, so they don't have to feel the bite of disapproval. The internet on the whole has made this problem worse, as you can always find a like-minded individual.
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 08:01:55  
Hey now common sense isn't allowed in P and R back to my feels !
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-23 08:08:03  
fonewear said: »
Hey now common sense isn't allowed in P and R back to my feels !

The irony drips.
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 08:13:28  
The entire thread is filled with feels. You can't tell where it begins or ends.
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-23 08:16:26  
fonewear said: »
The entire thread is filled with feels. You can't tell where it begins or ends.

...it's not the thread.

It's life.

I've tried saying this before, and it won't sink in now either, but every time one of you wise-crackers pipes up with the oh-so-whitty "feels" retort, you're just expressing your own 'feels' in a condescending fashion.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-06-23 08:43:03  
Drama Torama said: »
Let's be real specific about what that freedom is, .

demon beast AND constitutional scholar... wow!

Garuda.Chanti said: »
1% bikers fly the Nazi swastika. If you let it bother you it gains power over you.

I feel the same way about the swastika as I do about confederate flags. they are both waved by the same idiotic surrender monkeys...they're a buncha pussies and quitters.

rather than "be shocked" or "be afraid" or "be upset" by these symbols we must openly mock and ridicule anyone with the ignorance to try to intimidate others by waving them.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-06-23 08:43:11  
Drama Torama said: »
Let's be real specific about what that freedom is, since people don't seem to grasp it.

Freedom of Speech, as enshrined in the Constitution, is about freedom from government persecution for your beliefs. It's not illegal to be a racist, homophobe, Dane Cook fan, whatever. The cops aren't going to show up because you say something, unless your words show a clear and present danger to public safety (fire in a theater, threats, etc).

What it does not mean is that you are free to spout whatever you like without consequence. People can (and will) disagree, you can be fired from your job, banned from forums, and you can be shunned by society as a whole. This is why people with these opinions tend to band together in echo-chambery groups, so they don't have to feel the bite of disapproval. The internet on the whole has made this problem worse, as you can always find a like-minded individual.
Thank you.
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By fonewear 2015-06-23 08:45:26  
America is basically a metaphorical confederate flag though. "You pussies can't handle the truth"

By pussies I of course am referring to Canada and most of Europe. The loser countries.
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