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Random Politics & Religion #00
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:15:20
Hypothetical train of thought here. If there were an artist who, previous to 2008, had a collection of paintings where he painted a caricature of every previous president as a monkey, would the media react with fury when he continued his collection by painting Obama as one? I would almost say that anyone who complained would be far more racist than the painter, because they would be the ones singling Obama out when the painter was actually giving him equal treatment.
Strictly speaking the artist wouldn't be deliberately racist per se, but the artist aught to have strongly considered the implications with which some people would interpret his work. Whereas those criticizing would almost certainly be doing so with an agenda or out of ignorance of the artist's prior work and a knee-jerk reaction to what is widely known as a racist stereotype.
Either way, generations of racial undertones at play, because even if the artist were to go through with his imagery (as I think he should, in fact, as censorship is bad and because, as you stated, the proof is there that this is a non-racist trend with him), he'd have considered the possibility of its interpretation due to said racial undertones.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »I'm sure people would see something racial in it but if that artist did draw everyone else as a monkey, it wouldn't be racist.
As stated, there would be racial undertones, but it would not specifically be racist.
By Nyruul 2015-05-19 10:17:53
Hypothetical train of thought here. If there were an artist who, previous to 2008, had a collection of paintings where he painted a caricature of every previous president as a monkey, would the media react with fury when he continued his collection by painting Obama as one? I would almost say that anyone who complained would be far more racist than the painter, because they would be the ones singling Obama out when the painter was actually giving him equal treatment.
It would be racist if he didn't draw him as a monkey.
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:19:44
Hypothetical train of thought here. If there were an artist who, previous to 2008, had a collection of paintings where he painted a caricature of every previous president as a monkey, would the media react with fury when he continued his collection by painting Obama as one? I would almost say that anyone who complained would be far more racist than the painter, because they would be the ones singling Obama out when the painter was actually giving him equal treatment.
It would be racist if he didn't draw him as a monkey.
It would be racially-influenced, though I don't think it would be blatant racism on part of the artist either way. Not doing so would be considered a pragmatic departure from his norm based on potential backlash, real or perceived.
A business decision in a racially charged climate, really. Much like many businesses have to make. Doesn't make them deliberately racist.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-19 10:21:01
Hypothetical train of thought here. If there were an artist who, previous to 2008, had a collection of paintings where he painted a caricature of every previous president as a monkey, would the media react with fury when he continued his collection by painting Obama as one? I would almost say that anyone who complained would be far more racist than the painter, because they would be the ones singling Obama out when the painter was actually giving him equal treatment.
It would be racist if he didn't draw him as a monkey.
It would be racially-influenced, though I don't think it would be blatant racism on part of the artist either way. Not doing so would be considered a pragmatic departure from his norm based on potential backlash, real or perceived. Question remains, was it racist to depict prior presidents as monkeys before Obama was in office? If so, why, and if not, why not?
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-05-19 10:23:23
Democrats respond to Bobby Jindal's presidential bid with puppy video
Quote: The national Democratic Party was not impressed with Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal's (R) Monday announcement that he is forming a presidential exploratory committee.
The Democratic National Committee deemed the news soporific, and responded with a YouTube video of a yawning puppy dog:
YouTube Video Placeholder
"Following the news that Bobby Jindal has launched his Presidential Exploratory Committee, DNC National Press Secretary Holly Shulman released the following statement," the DNC said in an email on Monday.
The "statement" was nothing but a link to the YouTube clip.
Earlier in the day, Jindal declared he is seriously considering a White House bid and launched a website to raise money for a potential run. He said he will announce his official decision in June.
"My wife Supriya and I have been thinking and praying about whether to run for the presidency of our great nation," he said on Monday.
Jindal, who will finish his second term as Louisiana governor in January 2016, has long been rumored to have presidential ambitions but he faces stiff competition. Of the declared and likely top-tier Republican presidential contenders, Jindal ranks at the bottom in the polls. I'm sure that if the Republicans pulled this very stunt, they would have been called racist for attributing a dog with a minority.
But hey, as long as the hypocrites are happy, right? Seeing as how Jindal has, just like the majority of the announced and considering candidates, been running for president for years, it is a yawner.
No comment otherwise.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-05-19 10:24:50
There's no racist background to drawing a white guy as a monkey. It's a generic insult of stupidity. Like Bush being drawn as one.
There IS racist background to drawing black people as monkeys. A long, dirty history of it. In this case, you're drawing upon a pretty ugly spot in EuroAmerican history.
In the hypothetical, there is no racist element to it because there's background behind the drawing. Stupid people would leap to conclusions but that isn't an excuse to call it 'racist'.
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:26:27
There's racist backgrounds to drawing all non-white races as monkeys; and generally insulting history to drawing anyone as a simian. Look at some of the WWII propaganda about the Japanese. It makes anything done today seem pale by comparison.
Edit: Frankly, I think this is a fairly good conversation to have. What's racist and what's just people insulting people?
Here's another thought: is it racist to use a racist term just to rile someone up, even if you're not actually racist? Like, I don't generally consider myself malignantly or overtly racist beyond cultural aspects that are instinct more than concious though, things that I dismiss as soon as I realize I've thought them.
If I know someone who's black and I want to take a dig at him, is it racist if I use racial epithets to upset him or am I just striving for efficiency in being an ***?
By Nyruul 2015-05-19 10:28:52
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »In the hypothetical, there is no racist element to it because there's background behind the drawing. Stupid people would leap to conclusions but that isn't an excuse to call it 'racist'.
I had an ironic response for this but then I realized it might sound racist.. ._.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-19 10:30:02
Again with the double standard.
Yes, there are racial undertones with drawing a non-white person as a monkey, like there are racial undertones with attributing a non-white person as an animal in a response. Guess what, where's the outrage now?
To liberals, there is no outrage because it's not their candidate being portrayed as an animal. But Republicans have no choice but to check their responses to any democrat/liberal runners, otherwise they will be automatically accused of racism/sexism. Hell, they are accused of racism/sexism by default anyway.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-05-19 10:30:58
Bush Jr. was caricatured as a monkey on numerous occasions. People may or may not have liked that, but there was no massive public backlash that would have destroyed the artist's career. My concern is that once you have enough things that can be perceived as racist/sexist/whatever, you essentially limit the ways in which you can express opinions or even artistic license. Heaven forbid you even mess up once, as in many cases your reputation is destroyed. This also destroys any notion of fairness, and actually creates an advantage for the person for whom criticism is limited.
Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2015-05-19 10:32:41
We are in the age that anything can be twisted into being racist because of the person themselves looking for a reason to be mad about something racist.
People suck. Especially those who don't understand the simple things.
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:34:59
I'm going to go ahead and stand by my statement that I've made for decades.
"Extremists suck."
[+]
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-19 10:35:23
We are in the age that anything can be twisted into being racist because of the person themselves looking for a reason to be mad about something racist.
People suck. Especially those who don't understand the simple things. Personally, I wish we wouldn't attribute -ism with anything and everything in our responses.
I will be more than happy to stop if -ism isn't automatically directed towards me at every little criticism displayed towards any democrat/liberal candidate...
You know, holding people to the same standards they hold me at. It's a foreign concept to some, but it's a fair concept to be sure.
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:36:45
I will be more than happy to stop if -ism isn't automatically directed towards me at every little criticism displayed towards any democrat/liberal candidate...
Sort of like when people insist on calling liberalism/conservatism "mental illnesses"...
[+]
Lakshmi.Aelius
VIP
By Lakshmi.Aelius 2015-05-19 10:37:36
Extremist gonna take it to the extreme.
-ism all the things.jpg
[+]
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-19 10:39:09
I will be more than happy to stop if -ism isn't automatically directed towards me at every little criticism displayed towards any democrat/liberal candidate...
Sort of like when people insist on calling liberalism/conservatism "mental illnesses"... Every time I see Nausi or Savael respond like that, I just want to develop a portal gun just to punch them in the face.
That is a stupid response to everything and weakens their argument considerably...
By fonewear 2015-05-19 10:39:12
I'm going to go ahead and stand by my statement that I've made for decades.
"Extremists suck."
What about bmx extremists they can do a back flips !
Just because someone has an extreme point of view doesn't mean they are bad people. People believe all sorts of stupid stuff like in women!
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:41:06
What about bmx extremists they can do a back flip !
I tend not to be a fan of the dudebros who do that stuff, and personally I think the only "extreme" to a lot of that stuff is being "extremely stupid", but that's just like, my opinion man.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-05-19 10:41:24
If you don't [+] all my comments, I'm just going to assume that you're a bigot with a bias against dragons who fire beams of energy into the planet from space. And that ain't cool.
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:42:24
I'm just going to assume that you're a bigot with a bias against dragons who fire beams of energy into the planet from space. And that ain't cool.
I mean, I sort of do have a grudge against dragons who fire beams of energy into the planet...I mean, that's really only fair, I think.
Edit: Also, meet Alexander.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-05-19 10:42:56
I'm just going to assume that you're a bigot with a bias against dragons who fire beams of energy into the planet from space. And that ain't cool. I mean, I sort of do have a grudge against dragons who fire beams of energy into the planet...I mean, that's really only fair, I think.
/blist Ramyrez
I refuse to converse with a beamist... er, dragonist... er, beam-from-dragon-into-planetist?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-05-19 10:44:49
Quote: "Get ur pocket gun. Keep it available in case the monkey returns to his roots," the unnamed police officer texted Furminger, according to the government motion. "Its [sic] not against the law to put an animal down."
It's stuff like this that makes people question intentions when you call a black person a monkey... it has been used over the years as a derogatory term against black people... hasn't been used as the same against whites or mexicans or any other to my knowledge...
That's usuallly why people do a double take. Can some people throw the term racism out there regardless of the intent of the user? Yes. does it happen? Yes. are there still racists out there of any and all colors? Yes. America is still trying to get rid of the bad taste left in its mouth from our past history with it and maybe we'll just start hating each other for who we actually are rather than such superficial things.
[+]
By fonewear 2015-05-19 10:46:21
I liked this thread more when it wasn't about racism !
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:47:15
I liked this thread more when it wasn't about racism !
No you didn't! You spurned puppies and kitties and hedgehogs!
HEDGEHOGS, FONE.
By fonewear 2015-05-19 10:48:11
I barely care about people why would I care about animals ?
(here comes the PETA police)
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:48:52
or any other to my knowledge...
Well, again, there's this:
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-05-19 10:49:47
I liked this thread more when it wasn't about racism ! No you didn't! You spurned puppies and kitties and hedgehogs!
HEDGEHOGS, FONE.
Screw hedgehogs. Two-tailed foxes that can fly are where it's at. Also, when did I go from serious discussion to screwing around? *Looks around* Oh right, when Fone showed up. *Shakes fist*
Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2015-05-19 10:50:08
I barely care about people why would I care about animals ?
Animals have feels too!
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:50:20
I barely care about people why would I care about animals ?
(here comes the PETA police)
Because some animals are better to be around than people.
And some animals taste better than people.
And some animals will eat the people you don't like if you play your cards right.
Not that i'd know anything about how humans taste or trapping people so they're eaten by bears. It's conjecture...
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-05-19 10:50:49
Also, when did I go from serious discussion to screwing around?
Why not both!?
[+]
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