Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-19 15:12:02  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What the media won't tell you about global warming.
Every one of those "points" has been debunked in earlier threads. (Actually, most of those could be dismissed if one possessed a fully-functional logic center.) Is there anything new coming from the denialist think tanks, at least?

"The fact that the liberal skewed media refuses to look at both sides of the climate argument should be evidence enough that they realize global warming theory is flawed"
The liberal skewed media doesn't look at both sides of the issue for people walking around NYC claiming that angels are coming and doomsday is here, either.
Somehow, that isn't used as an excuse to claim that this is evidence that the "no, this is not the apocolypse" argument is flawed.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-19 15:14:44  
Altimaomega said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
No, I've provided links in past threads regarding each one of the talking points that are somewhat based in the science. Things like "herp derp we have A scientist who changed his mind once" and "b-b-b-but what about global cooling" don't really merit discussion.

Thanks for playing.
I know this is used a lot but that's a reading comprehension error on your part.

But yeah, anything new on the scientific-reality-is-a-liberal-lie front? Can climate change be explained by feminism or gay marriage somehow?
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-11-19 15:15:34  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
No, I've provided links in past threads regarding each one of the talking points that are somewhat based in the science. Things like "herp derp we have A scientist who changed his mind once" and "b-b-b-but what about global cooling" don't really merit discussion.
Then by all means, abstain from the discussion.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Good luck proving this wrong.
He doesn't have to. He can simply deny it. "Its from the government, therefore propaganda."
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-19 15:17:54  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
No, I've provided links in past threads regarding each one of the talking points that are somewhat based in the science. Things like "herp derp we have A scientist who changed his mind once" and "b-b-b-but what about global cooling" don't really merit discussion.
Then by all means, abstain from the discussion.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Good luck proving this wrong.

Perhaps you should take a look at the dates for all this "evidence", then do a little critical thinking. Just posting that the weather=climate changes over time is fail.. When you do that all I have to do is say "hey look at the past 2-3yrs, the next ice age is coming!"

Please don't be a Pleebo and put some thought into the "evidence" you present.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-19 15:18:54  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I know this is used a lot but that's a reading comprehension error on your part.

I feel like a large amount of "reading comprehension" complaints on this site are from people who didn't express themselves clearly to begin with.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-19 15:20:22  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I feel like a large amount of "reading comprehension" complaints on this site are from people who didn't express themselves clearly to begin with.
Na, it's because several people can't read very well.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-19 15:21:43  
Altimaomega said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
No, I've provided links in past threads regarding each one of the talking points that are somewhat based in the science. Things like "herp derp we have A scientist who changed his mind once" and "b-b-b-but what about global cooling" don't really merit discussion.
Then by all means, abstain from the discussion.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Good luck proving this wrong.

Perhaps you should take a look at the dates for all this "evidence", then do a little critical thinking. Just posting that the weather=climate changes over time is fail.. When you do that all I have to do is say "hey look at the past 2-3yrs, the next ice age is coming!"

Please don't be a Pleebo and put some thought into the "evidence" you present.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:22:26  
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What the media won't tell you about global warming.
Every one of those "points" has been debunked in earlier threads. (Actually, most of those could be dismissed if one possessed a fully-functional logic center.) Is there anything new coming from the denialist think tanks, at least?

"The fact that the liberal skewed media refuses to look at both sides of the climate argument should be evidence enough that they realize global warming theory is flawed"
The liberal skewed media doesn't look at both sides of the issue for people walking around NYC claiming that angels are coming and doomsday is here, either.
Somehow, that isn't used as an excuse to claim that this is evidence that the "no, this is not the apocolypse" argument is flawed.

Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street? Something smells like false equivalence. Funny thing is, I'm sure you'll more readily find a tv show and/or news story positing the existence of angels than you will that global warming is a cult.

Regardless, the church of global warming peddles the same apocalyptic nonsense as the crazy guy on the street. "Repent! Atone! The end is near!"
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-19 15:24:30  
Altimaomega said: »
weather=climate changes over time
Backwards. Perhaps science isn't your thing?
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:24:44  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
No, I've provided links in past threads regarding each one of the talking points that are somewhat based in the science. Things like "herp derp we have A scientist who changed his mind once" and "b-b-b-but what about global cooling" don't really merit discussion.
Then by all means, abstain from the discussion.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Good luck proving this wrong.
He doesn't have to. He can simply deny it. "Its from the government, therefore propaganda."

You're right, it's not like high level administrators would ever lie in order to achieve their health care global warming policy agenda.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-19 15:26:11  
A certain amount of common knowledge is to be expected in a debate.

We all speak English (mostly), we all can do basic Math, we should all have a basic understanding of things like averages and trends. Knowing the definition of key words like "scientific theory" or the difference between "climate" and "weather" would be helpful in this discussion obviously.

Even I'm guilty of picking out a phrase or single statement in a post and overlooking the rest. But, some forum posters repeatedly quote a post having read only the name of the poster and go on rants.

Reading comprehension isn't the issue, it's people having any manner of mutual respect for people who disagree with them and no understanding of polite debate.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-19 15:27:10  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You're right, it's not like high level administrators would ever lie in order to achieve their health care global warming policy agenda.
Yeah, just like the governments of every science literate nation in the world. It's all part of THE PLAN.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:27:26  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Altimaomega said: »
weather=climate changes over time
Backwards. Perhaps science isn't your thing?

When weather supports your argument, weather is climate. When it doesn't, weather is just weather.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-19 15:27:36  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What the media won't tell you about global warming.
Every one of those "points" has been debunked in earlier threads. (Actually, most of those could be dismissed if one possessed a fully-functional logic center.) Is there anything new coming from the denialist think tanks, at least?

"The fact that the liberal skewed media refuses to look at both sides of the climate argument should be evidence enough that they realize global warming theory is flawed"
The liberal skewed media doesn't look at both sides of the issue for people walking around NYC claiming that angels are coming and doomsday is here, either.
Somehow, that isn't used as an excuse to claim that this is evidence that the "no, this is not the apocolypse" argument is flawed.

Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street? Something smells like false equivalence. Funny thing is, I'm sure you'll more readily find a tv show and/or news story positing the existence of angels than you will that global warming is a cult.

Regardless, the church of global warming peddles the same apocalyptic nonsense as the crazy guy on the street. "Repent! Atone! The end is near!"

Coincidentally, virtually the entire community of climate scientists feel the same way about climate deniers. I wonder who the less versed should listen to...

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Altimaomega said: »
weather=climate changes over time
Backwards. Perhaps science isn't your thing?

When weather supports your argument, weather is climate. When it doesn't, weather is just weather.

Yeah, no, weather is always weather, climate is always climate. "It's hot today, so global warming" has never been spoken by any climate scientist, ever.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-19 15:29:01  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What the media won't tell you about global warming.
Every one of those "points" has been debunked in earlier threads. (Actually, most of those could be dismissed if one possessed a fully-functional logic center.) Is there anything new coming from the denialist think tanks, at least?

"The fact that the liberal skewed media refuses to look at both sides of the climate argument should be evidence enough that they realize global warming theory is flawed"
The liberal skewed media doesn't look at both sides of the issue for people walking around NYC claiming that angels are coming and doomsday is here, either.
Somehow, that isn't used as an excuse to claim that this is evidence that the "no, this is not the apocolypse" argument is flawed.

Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street? Something smells like false equivalence. Funny thing is, I'm sure you'll more readily find a tv show and/or news story positing the existence of angels than you will that global warming is a cult.

Regardless, the church of global warming peddles the same apocalyptic nonsense as the crazy guy on the street. "Repent! Atone! The end is near!"
Responsible media should not give equal credence to concepts which don't have anywhere close to the same veracity.

I might find a "news" story on angels, but I won't find a news story.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:29:11  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What the media won't tell you about global warming.
Every one of those "points" has been debunked in earlier threads. (Actually, most of those could be dismissed if one possessed a fully-functional logic center.) Is there anything new coming from the denialist think tanks, at least?

"The fact that the liberal skewed media refuses to look at both sides of the climate argument should be evidence enough that they realize global warming theory is flawed"
The liberal skewed media doesn't look at both sides of the issue for people walking around NYC claiming that angels are coming and doomsday is here, either.
Somehow, that isn't used as an excuse to claim that this is evidence that the "no, this is not the apocolypse" argument is flawed.

Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street? Something smells like false equivalence. Funny thing is, I'm sure you'll more readily find a tv show and/or news story positing the existence of angels than you will that global warming is a cult.

Regardless, the church of global warming peddles the same apocalyptic nonsense as the crazy guy on the street. "Repent! Atone! The end is near!"

Coincidentally, virtually the entire community of climate scientists feel the same way about climate deniers. I wonder who the less versed should listen to...
Another falsehood didn't you read the article I posted?
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-19 15:31:39  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What the media won't tell you about global warming.
Every one of those "points" has been debunked in earlier threads. (Actually, most of those could be dismissed if one possessed a fully-functional logic center.) Is there anything new coming from the denialist think tanks, at least?

"The fact that the liberal skewed media refuses to look at both sides of the climate argument should be evidence enough that they realize global warming theory is flawed"
The liberal skewed media doesn't look at both sides of the issue for people walking around NYC claiming that angels are coming and doomsday is here, either.
Somehow, that isn't used as an excuse to claim that this is evidence that the "no, this is not the apocolypse" argument is flawed.

Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street? Something smells like false equivalence. Funny thing is, I'm sure you'll more readily find a tv show and/or news story positing the existence of angels than you will that global warming is a cult.

Regardless, the church of global warming peddles the same apocalyptic nonsense as the crazy guy on the street. "Repent! Atone! The end is near!"

Coincidentally, virtually the entire community of climate scientists feel the same way about climate deniers. I wonder who the less versed should listen to...
Another falsehood didn't you read the article I posted?


Which article would that be?
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-19 15:32:05  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street?

Yes, because they are.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:32:31  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »

So increasing the oil supply via fracking doesn't lower prices?

Supply shock from North American oil rippling through global markets
Do you read the articles you post?

I do, it's full of stuff like:

"According to the MTOMR, the effects of continued growth in North American supply – led by US light, tight oil (LTO) and Canadian oil sands – will cascade through the global oil market."

"“North America has set off a supply shock that is sending ripples throughout the world,” said IEA Executive Director Maria van der Hoeven, who launched the report at the Platts Crude Oil Summit in London. “The good news is that this is helping to ease a market that was relatively tight for several years. The technology that unlocked the bonanza in places like North Dakota can and will be applied elsewhere, potentially leading to a broad reassessment of reserves."

and lets not forget.

"The growth in North American oil production presents opportunities and challenges, notes the MTOMR. With large-scale North American crude imports tapering off and with excess US refining output looking for markets, the domino effects from this new supply will continue."

Are you sure you're reading them?
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:33:43  
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Now you're comparing "climate deniers" to crazy guys on the street?

Yes, because they are.

Pleebs and Jet have weighed in with their opinions, I guess we don't have to discuss anything anymore.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-19 15:34:58  
Odin.Jassik said: »
A certain amount of common knowledge is to be expected in a debate.

We all speak English (mostly), we all can do basic Math, we should all have a basic understanding of things like averages and trends. Knowing the definition of key words like "scientific theory" or the difference between "climate" and "weather" would be helpful in this discussion obviously.

Even I'm guilty of picking out a phrase or single statement in a post and overlooking the rest. But, some forum posters repeatedly quote a post having read only the name of the poster and go on rants.

Reading comprehension isn't the issue, it's people having any manner of mutual respect for people who disagree with them and no understanding of polite debate.
Yet this is an internet thread, and we've already established that certain people don't have this "common knowledge" so yes, reading comprehension is an actual issue.

I'd hate to see how these people fair on reading comprehension tests, as they read one thing, and spit out something entirely else. Evidenced by the articles they keep posting that refute their own argument (among other things).



The rest is a result of this, but at the moment we're speaking of personal opinion to what the issues are, so I'll just respectfully disagree with your assertion.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-19 15:35:30  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Which article would that be?
The article refers to the infamous Cook paper that analyzed papers on climate change related studies and it demonstrates the exact same misunderstanding about the study that the deniers on here do.
NEVERMIND I WASNT HERE
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-19 15:37:41  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Which article would that be?
The article refers to the infamous Cook paper that analyzed papers on climate change related studies and it demonstrates the exact same misunderstanding about the study that the deniers on here do.

Way to spring the trap... We're not feety pajama friends anymore...
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-19 15:48:17  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »

So increasing the oil supply via fracking doesn't lower prices?

Supply shock from North American oil rippling through global markets
Do you read the articles you post?

I do, it's full of stuff like:

"According to the MTOMR, the effects of continued growth in North American supply – led by US light, tight oil (LTO) and Canadian oil sands – will cascade through the global oil market."

"“North America has set off a supply shock that is sending ripples throughout the world,” said IEA Executive Director Maria van der Hoeven, who launched the report at the Platts Crude Oil Summit in London. “The good news is that this is helping to ease a market that was relatively tight for several years. The technology that unlocked the bonanza in places like North Dakota can and will be applied elsewhere, potentially leading to a broad reassessment of reserves."

and lets not forget.

"The growth in North American oil production presents opportunities and challenges, notes the MTOMR. With large-scale North American crude imports tapering off and with excess US refining output looking for markets, the domino effects from this new supply will continue."

Are you sure you're reading them?
And stuff like:
Quote:
IEA’s Medium-Term Oil Market Report sees companies overhauling global investment strategies; meanwhile, surge in non-OECD refining capacity shakes up product market
Quote:
Although shale oil development outside North America may not be a large-scale reality during the report’s five-year timeframe, the technologies responsible for the boom will increase production from mature, conventional fields – causing companies to reconsider investments in higher-risk areas.
Quote:
In virtually every other aspect of the market, developing economies are in the driver’s seat. This quarter, for the first time, non-OECD economies will overtake OECD nations in oil demand. At the same time, massive refinery capacity increases in non-OECD economies are accelerating a broad restructuring of the global refining industry and oil trading patterns. European refiners will see no let-up from the squeeze caused by increasing US product exports and the new Asian and Middle Eastern refining titans.
Quote:
The growth in North American oil production presents opportunities and challenges, notes the MTOMR. With large-scale North American crude imports tapering off and with excess US refining output looking for markets, the domino effects from this new supply will continue. Having helped offset record supply disruptions in 2012, North American supply is expected to continue to compensate for declines and delays elsewhere, but only if necessary infrastructure is put in place. Failing that, bottlenecks could pressure prices lower and slow development.

While OPEC oil will remain a key part of the oil mix, OPEC production capacity growth will be adversely affected by growing insecurity in North and Sub-Saharan Africa. OPEC capacity is expected to gain 1.75 mb/d to 36.75 mb/d, about 750 kb/d less than forecast in the 2012 MTOMR. Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the UAE will lead the growth, but OPEC’s lower-than-expected aggregate additions to global capacity will boost the relative share of North America.

Rising non-OECD participation in the oil market will be associated with continued growth in commercial and strategic storage capacity, along with strategically located storage hubs to support long-haul crude and product trade. African economies will play a larger role in the global market than previously expected. Although data leave room for improvement, there is strong evidence that African oil demand has been routinely underestimated, and may grow by a further 1 mb/d over the next five years.

Finally, steep growth in non-OECD refining capacity will accelerate the transformation of the global product supply chain, exerting downward pressure on refining margins and utilisation rates and leaving OECD refineries at risk of closure, notably in Europe. Product supply chains will continue to lengthen as new merchant refining centres extend their reach, resulting in higher disruption risks and potentially more volatile markets in product-importing economies.


All of which draws no correlation with prices at the pump decreasing as they have.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-19 15:49:14  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »

So increasing the oil supply via fracking doesn't lower prices?

Supply shock from North American oil rippling through global markets
Do you read the articles you post?

I do, it's full of stuff like:

"According to the MTOMR, the effects of continued growth in North American supply – led by US light, tight oil (LTO) and Canadian oil sands – will cascade through the global oil market."

"“North America has set off a supply shock that is sending ripples throughout the world,” said IEA Executive Director Maria van der Hoeven, who launched the report at the Platts Crude Oil Summit in London. “The good news is that this is helping to ease a market that was relatively tight for several years. The technology that unlocked the bonanza in places like North Dakota can and will be applied elsewhere, potentially leading to a broad reassessment of reserves."

and lets not forget.

"The growth in North American oil production presents opportunities and challenges, notes the MTOMR. With large-scale North American crude imports tapering off and with excess US refining output looking for markets, the domino effects from this new supply will continue."

Are you sure you're reading them?
It is a prediction article on a prediction report...for the next five years. It is not saying this is currently happening.

They are discussing how companies should adjust risk assessments and investment stratagies. They don't even remotely discuss pricing at even the barrel level.

They are discussing how the technologies coming from north america will potentially send a supply shock. As in other countries (specifically non OECD) will start pumping up the supply using these new methods as long as it profitable.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-19 15:52:23  
Quote:
Environmentalists and energy boosters alike welcomed a federal compromise announced Tuesday that will allow fracking in the largest national forest in the eastern United States, but make most of its woods off-limits to drilling.
Fracking to Be Permitted in GW National Forest
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-19 15:53:53  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Perhaps you should take a look at the dates for all this "evidence", then do a little critical thinking. Just posting that the weather=climate changes over time is fail.. When you do that all I have to do is say "hey look at the past 2-3yrs, the next ice age is coming!"

Please don't be a Pleebo and put some thought into the "evidence" you present.

Maybe you are the one who should put some thought into your denial. Let's take an example, Antartica ice exent hits record high, you go on a rampage without understanding what it means. Now look at the actual ice mass loss, oh?

The biggest insult here is that the alarmists try and discredit the skeptics by pointing to their lack of understanding on the issue, all the while EVERY SINGLE prediction the alarmists have ever made has failed to materialize.

Sea level rises? Suck it!
Ice coverage? Suck it!
Global temps? Suck it!
Hurricanes? Suck it!
Droughts? Suck it!
Polar bears? Suck it!

All these things have proven the alarmists lack of understanding on the issue.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-19 15:58:34  
If scientists didn't claim that every weather event, animal extinction, geological phenomenon, and burnt dinner was due to global warming, I might be more inclined to take them more seriously as scientists. Somewhere there's a happy medium between crazy denier and crazy "OMG climate change is responsible for everything"...er.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-19 15:59:08  
The fact that you use polar bears as some kind of counterpoint is a pretty good warning sign to avoid engagement.
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