Random Politics & Religion #00

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 13:50:47  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
The point being that she should not have been jailed in the first place as there was no cause and its always an issue when someone dies in police custody especially when there are gaps in surveillance and the officers in question were derrilect in following their own rules on checking up on the prisoner and such. In any case no criminal charges it seems but theyll get whacked with a civil suit and pay out a bunch of money to the ladies family. For me its not about black or white but about police misconduct and direliction of duty.
Ya'll Even watch the vid? She wasn't compliant with the officer and confrontational. That in itself is reason for arrest. You're asked to put out your cigarette. You do it. You're asked to step out of your vehicle. You do it. You don't get into a temper tantrum and assault an officer. She was an idiot.
Youre wrong. Youre just so wrong. The officer in question has even been put on admin leave for violating agency regulations.
Where and HOW am I wrong? I've been asked before by police to put out my cigarette. I followed orders. I been asked to step out of my vehicle. I followed orders. I've been patted down and searched for drugs and had ZERO issues or arrests because I didn't act a damn fool....
Common police policy.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-12-22 13:50:47  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »

Look at the chicago cops they paid off mcdonalds family 5$ million pre trial to keep wjat actually happened out of the public eye and lied repeatedly about what actually happened. I mean blatently lied.
Ok, that is pretty insane
http://chicagoreporter.com/how-chicago-tried-to-cover-up-a-police-execution/
Yup then about three or four more police shootings came into question along with others that have already been in play. The feds are about to.come in. The police cheif has been fired. Roms under fire lol... its a pretty big mess and our tax dollars continue to fund police misconduct.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-12-22 13:55:42  
Youre wrong because while you complied with officer requests you dont always have to. First off they have to have some kind of cause to search you and they cant make you put out a cigarette. I can tell a cop to go *** himself and they can sit there and take it or move on. If they act because you do something they dont lile its an abuse of power. You shpuld lnow your actual right before you blindly comply woth everything an officer requeats you do.

Also if you didnt read all that i wrote... the cop was placed on admonistrative leave as he was found to act in violation of police regulations during the stop.
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-12-22 13:58:51  
I'll agree to negligence, IF that county jail was really empty.
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 14:02:41  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Youre wrong because while you complied with officer requests you dont always have to. First off they have to have some kind of cause to search you and they cant make you put out a cigarette. I can tell a cop to go *** himself and they can sit there and take it or move on. If they act because you do something they dont lile its an abuse of power. You shpuld lnow your actual right before you blindly comply woth everything an officer requeats you do.

Also if you didnt read all that i wrote... the cop was placed on admonistrative leave as he was found to act in violation of police regulations during the stop.
Regardless of your rights or how you could respond. Typically you shouldn't do as you suggested cuz you can and will be arrested. If you want to turn the police into the bad guys. Have fun with that. Personally I wouldn't suggest doing any such thing. Common sense.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-12-22 14:08:50  
There are some bad cops and there are some that are just bad at their jobs... to think otherwise is just foolish. Holding those accountable that do things that are wrong is something that we need to do. People like you that seem to give them carte blanche to do whatever the *** they want just add to the problem we already have.

Its like you refuse to see that he was deemed to have acted outside the bounds of the law and was punished for it but somehow seem to easily crucify the woman for what not doing something you liked?

Youre wrong again... mouthing off to a cop is not an offense they can arrest you for.

Watch how the county will lose the civil suit and pay out a ton of money to this ladoes family.

I dont get why some people think that all cops are infallible
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 14:10:57  
Then everyone should fight with cops for shits and giggles. Officer asks me something. I reply respectfully. They ask me to do something. I do it respectfully. Bottom line: Cops are doing a job, like everyone else, and showing respect and appreciation for those doing thier job would remove such instances from taking place to begin with.
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By Ramyrez 2015-12-22 14:13:48  
Siren.Akson said: »
Regardless of your rights or how you could respond. Typically you shouldn't do as you suggested cuz you can and will be arrested. If you want to turn the police into the bad guys. Have fun with that. Personally I wouldn't suggest doing any such thing. Common sense.

What you're stating is self preservation with regard to the situation as it is, not a legal issue.

Yes, she was probably being a ***. But she's legally allowed to be a ***.

Unnecessary force or conduct on behalf of the police is not legal or appropriate. I'm sure some people think it is, but that's why they have a code of conduct in the first place; to remove as much subjectivity as possible.

Is it your right to think she deserved a smack in the chops for her actions? Yes. Is it that cop's right to give it to her? Hell to the no.

What you're talking about is sometimes called "common sense," sometimes other less savory things. Yes. It is probably in your best interest to comply and get on with your day. It will make your life the easiest.

But it is not required of you.

An unlocked car does not make it okay to take the items inside as your own. A scantily dressed women is not justification to have your way with her sexually. And a non-complying citizen -- while assuredly irritating and probably a jerk -- is not breaking the law by refusing to put their cigarette out or refusing a police search without warrant.

...then again, this is coming from someone who previously didn't understand the idea of freedom of religion applies beyond Christianity, either.

Your basic understand of civil liberties is lacking.
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By charlo999 2015-12-22 14:18:10  
maldini said: »
Quote:
Both links goes through ALL the possible translations even the modern ones the apologetics use to defend the verse. Where they say it means 'seperate'.
Now I'm willing to listen to intelligent rebuttals of this. But I'm afraid there will be either silence or a change of tact.

There's nothing to discuss. That is a genuine verse from the Quran. "Qawamoon 3la el Nisaa" doesn't sound bad in Arabic because it is derived from the word "Qam" - "stood upright" and "Qum" - "stand upright" - so it means to stand upright for women and have the authority to do so. Arabic is a very very beautiful and complex language, when you transliterate and don't take the nuances into consideration you're going to end up with a partial truth most of the times. I'm not saying Islam doesn't make the Patriarch the authority in the family; it most certainly does. But it qualifies the position as well.

That translation is from an Islamic site. The online Quran so to speak. It's wrong?
So all the commentaries and hadiths are wrong?
Ibn kathir is wrong.
Al tabarim is wrong.
Baidawi is wrong.
Ibn Abbas is wrong.
Al qurtuni is wrong.
And many many more.

I want to hear you say these people are wrong if you believe your translation. SAY IT. SAY IT. SAY IT. SAY IT.

Would you do us the pleasure of translating the whole verse to what you think it says. Please educate us.

As for your little quotes from OT they are historic commands (judgements) and give us 0 problems or dangers in today's world (I can't remember the last time a Hebrew came at someone with a sword), so do us a favour and drop it.
The Qurans commands/judgements are in effect till the end of the world.
Big difference.
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 14:22:51  
Ramyrez said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
Regardless of your rights or how you could respond. Typically you shouldn't do as you suggested cuz you can and will be arrested. If you want to turn the police into the bad guys. Have fun with that. Personally I wouldn't suggest doing any such thing. Common sense.
Is it your right to think she deserved a smack in the chops for her actions? Yes. Is it that cop's right to give it to her? Hell to the no.
Now you're just creating the story. The cop didn't do any such thing. Once again your own personal vision in your head. Your own reality.
Quote:
...then again, this is coming from someone who previously didn't understand the idea of freedom of religion applies beyond Christianity, either.
If you could be so kind to show me how I don't understand Freedom of Religion.
Quote:
Your basic understand of civil liberties is lacking.
If you want to play Rambo with the police. Go for it! Have fun with that.
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By Ramyrez 2015-12-22 14:24:48  
Siren.Akson said: »
Now you're just creating the story. The cop didn't do any such thing. Once again your own personal vision in your head. Your own reality.

No cars were broken into, nor was anyone raped in this instance.

I was giving a figurative situation.

I'll try to stick to concrete examples and concepts in the future with you.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-12-22 14:25:26  
Siren.Akson said: »
Then everyone should fight with cops for shits and giggles. Officer asks me something. I reply respectfully. They ask me to do something. I do it respectfully. Bottom line: Cops are doing a job, like everyone else, and showing respect and appreciation for those doing thier job would remove such instances from taking place to begin with.
The fact that you think not showing respect to a police officer is a jailable offense is laughable...
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 14:30:33  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
Then everyone should fight with cops for shits and giggles. Officer asks me something. I reply respectfully. They ask me to do something. I do it respectfully. Bottom line: Cops are doing a job, like everyone else, and showing respect and appreciation for those doing thier job would remove such instances from taking place to begin with.
The fact that you think not showing respect to a police officer is a jailable offense is laughable...
Then go play copy cat and try to do as she did. Maybe ya'll get rich too! Though I am pretty possitive that assualting an officer is a jailable offense yet I never did say that disrespect was. Your words not mine.
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By Ramyrez 2015-12-22 14:38:25  
Siren.Akson said: »
If you could be so kind to show me how I don't understand Freedom of Religion.

There were a few threads recently where you and some of your like-minded cohorts were very either very vocal or very +'ing each other even when you were posting yourselves about anti-Muslim behavior endorsed by people like Donald Trump.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-12-22 14:44:16  
How hard do you have to try to ignore the fact that the officer was disciplined for stepping outside the bounds of his job and not following guidelines?

I have told an officer no before. i have refused to vomply woth unreasonable requests. Police officers requests are not absolute and all of them are fallible just like the rest of us. They make mistakes at times or bad judgement calls.

About the only thing youve said thats right is that assaulting a police officer is a pretty serious offense. theres quite a big difference between refusing to comply or beomg rude or mouthing off and assaultong someone. You should probably also read what youve written if yoi dont think youve stated and implied that being rude to an officer is a jailable offense.

Like remo stated it probably is in your best interest most days to comply to get your day to move on more quickly but it is definitely wothon your rights in many cases not to.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-12-22 15:50:58  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
pretty serious offense

your ***typing is! pull out a laptop if you want to hang out with us.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-12-22 16:27:03  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
....
Youre wrong again... mouthing off to a cop is not an offense they can arrest you for....
Of course it isn't. That's why they arrest you for obstructing an officer and resisting arrest.

Or if they feel like it they beat you sensless and arest you for assualting an officer and resisting arrest.

THIS IS NOT NEW.
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 17:07:27  
Ramyrez said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
If you could be so kind to show me how I don't understand Freedom of Religion.

There were a few threads recently where you and some of your like-minded cohorts were very either very vocal or very +'ing each other even when you were posting yourselves about anti-Muslim behavior endorsed by people like Donald Trump.
If you have or had a problem then point it out with a link or quote cuz if you didn't say nothing then why bother now. If you're right I'm more than man enough to admit I'm wrong but claiming I'm this or that without anything suggesting such is as pointless as your analogies.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-12-22 18:49:33  
Ramyrez said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
If you could be so kind to show me how I don't understand Freedom of Religion.

There were a few threads recently where you and some of your like-minded cohorts were very either very vocal or very +'ing each other even when you were posting yourselves about anti-Muslim behavior endorsed by people like Donald Trump.

Oh I remember you saying something sometime back in some other forum that I probably took entirely out of context.

Such a ramy answer

Hey when did Flav get back?
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 19:08:42  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
How hard do you have to try to ignore the fact that the officer was disciplined for stepping outside the bounds of his job and not following guidelines?
I didn't ignore you saying such. Personally I would expect to be arrested after acting like such. You can claim it's an abuse of power yet asking you to put out your cigarette is common practice. Asking you to step outside of your vehicle is also common police practice.
Quote:
I have told an officer no before. i have refused to vomply woth unreasonable requests. Police officers requests are not absolute and all of them are fallible just like the rest of us. They make mistakes at times or bad judgement calls.
Everything he did was common procedure up to the point of forcing her out of the car. Maybe? I don't know. Never been so dumb to put myself into such a situation. Though I would expect a cop to do that as well to myself if I had acted like she did. My point was that she dictated the end result. Which is pretty obvious. If forcing you out of the vehicle is against policy then I'm sure he'll be disciplined yet he did nothing that serious. Neither did she really til she assualted him as he attempted to take her out of the car. Acting hostile with police is probly a bad idea from the start to begin with.
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-22 19:24:49  
This one is a little more surreal just to watch.
YouTube Video Placeholder
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-12-23 03:33:25  
Congratulations to Greece for attaining same sex marriage!
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-12-23 03:48:42  
Siren.Akson said: »
This one is a little more surreal just to watch.
YouTube Video Placeholder
17 seconds in he shoots the guy in the neck and then like 26 seconds after that he radios in that the guy refuses to get out of the car...
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2015-12-23 05:20:39  
Absolutely blew my mind. Then you take into consideration that no charges are being pressed against him and I'm left in disbelief. Accidental discharge of the gun they say. That's impossible. I seen it go off twice it looked and he didn't exactly look startled by such an "accident" taking place. He just blatantly killed the guy. Whom just survived what looked to be a horrific car crash too nonetheless. Only to be murdered by someone whom had absolutely ZERO reasons to be pulling out a pistol on him in such a situation in the 1st place. He acted more like someone whom just sabotaged a vehicle to create an accident and seen a survivor whom was supposed to be dead and decided the task wasn't yet completed. Unreal. Accident my ***. He made sure nobody survived that crash.
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By Jassik 2015-12-23 08:23:50  
Siren.Akson said: »
Absolutely blew my mind. Then you take into consideration that no charges are being pressed against him and I'm left in disbelief. Accidental discharge of the gun they say. That's impossible. I seen it go off twice it looked and he didn't exactly look startled by such an "accident" taking place. He just blatantly killed the guy. Whom just survived what looked to be a horrific car crash too nonetheless. Only to be murdered by someone whom had absolutely ZERO reasons to be pulling out a pistol on him in such a situation in the 1st place. He acted more like someone whom just sabotaged a vehicle to create an accident and seen a survivor whom was supposed to be dead and decided the task wasn't yet completed. Unreal. Accident my ***. He made sure nobody survived that crash.

At least your reaction is a healthy one. Here's the problem, most incidents involving police use of force aren't so cut and dried. When there is doubt, they're almost never prosecuted or subject to outside investigations, etc. What's more is that even with the fairly widespread deployment of dashcams and bodycams, there are a shocking number of incidents every year involving police shooting unarmed people where the cameras either didn't exist or weren't working. And that's assuming you believe they actually malfunctioned and they're not just covering up evidence.

I'm generally respectful to police, but it is a courtesy I extend to make both our lives easier. It is not a requirement.

Why is it so few people understand civil liberties while they run around screaming "freedom"?
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By Ramyrez 2015-12-23 08:36:32  
Jassik said: »
Why is it so few people understand civil liberties while they run around screaming "freedom"?

You basically just summed up the Tea Party mentality.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-12-23 08:45:27  
Jassik said: »
Why is it so few people understand civil liberties while they run around screaming "freedom"?

Braveheart?
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-12-23 09:34:35  
In hypocrisy news:

Washington Post retracts animated cartoon depicting Cruz's children as dancing monkeys

Quote:
The Washington Post retracted an editorial cartoon Tuesday evening, after Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz (Texas) lashed out over the depiction of his grade-school daughters as dancing monkeys for their appearance in a presidential campaign ad.

The animated cartoon featured a Santa Claus-costumed Cruz winding a music box as two leashed monkeys danced in elf costumes. The monkeys represent Cruz's daugthers Caroline, 7, and Catherine, 4.

"Classy. @washingtonpost makes fun of my girls. Stick w/ attacking me--Caroline & Catherine are out of your league," Cruz tweeted Tuesday with a link to the cartoon.

The editorial cartoonist, Ann Telnaes, wrote that Cruz waived the "unspoken rule" to leave politician's kids out of cartoons with a TV ad that ran during last week's "Saturday Night Live."

On Tuesday evening, a note from editor Fred Hiatt appeared on the Washington Post's website reading: "It’s generally been the policy of our editorial section to leave children out of it. I failed to look at this cartoon before it was published. I understand why Ann thought an exception to the policy was warranted in this case, but I do not agree."

The ad featured Cruz, his wife, Heidi, and their daughters in a fake infomercial for a book of politically charged Christmas stories. Tales include “How ObamaCare Stole Christmas” and “Auditing St. Nick.”

Cruz’s daughter Caroline reads from “The Grinch Who Lost Her Emails," and Catherine asks him to read "The Senator Who Saved Christmas."

"When a politician uses his children as political props, as Ted Cruz recently did in his Christmas parody video in which his eldest daughter read (with her father’s dramatic flourish) a passage of an edited Christmas classic, then I figure they are fair game," Telnaes wrote in a post with the cartoon.

So, again, it's considered not racist to depict white people as monkeys? But give somebody of color a banana and the liberals are all screaming until their throats run dry.....
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By Ramyrez 2015-12-23 10:01:25  
Depicting anyone as a monkey is questionable as far as taste is concerned.

Though the idea of depicting someone -- black or white -- who doesn't believe in evolution as any sort of primate is somewhat amusing to me.
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By maldini 2015-12-23 12:08:04  
Siren.Akson said: »
This one is a little more surreal just to watch.
[

oh just what the actual FOK!!!?!!
No prosecution?! I'm perplexed!!!
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