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Random Politics & Religion #00
By Jassik 2015-11-29 22:41:42
What have you personally done about the death penalty, collateral damage in war, and worldwide poverty? Or are you somehow off the hook because your "feelz" are in the right place?
I've protested the war in Iraq on multiple occasions and written letters to my representatives. Locally, we don't use the death penalty, or at least haven't since it was reinstated in the 70's, and I donate copiously to local food banks and have volunteered at UGM and the local warming centers several times. There's not much more I can do on those issues besides running for office, which I'm not inclined to do.
I actually do put my money where my mouth is on these issues and that's more than I can say for 99% of the population. What have you done on any of the issues in your "feelz" bin?
 Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-11-29 22:42:41
I still don't understand at all. Under what rational way of thinking does anyone think they should enforce thier personal opinions upon others?
People support new laws all the time. Those new laws are enforced. People have to obey them or face the consequences. How is this new? What's with the cognitive dissonance here?
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By Jassik 2015-11-29 22:45:21
I still don't understand at all. Under what rational way of thinking does anyone think they should enforce thier personal opinions upon others?
People support new laws all the time. Those new laws are enforced. People have to obey them or face the consequences. How is this new? What's with the cognitive dissonance here?
Because the facts do not support the conclusion that life begins at conception and the courts have affirmed repeatedly that a fetus is not a person. Wouldn't you be a little perturbed if a group of Muslim fundamentalists were attempting to outlaw something without a secular basis?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-11-29 22:52:00
I still don't understand at all. Under what rational way of thinking does anyone think they should enforce thier personal opinions upon others?
People support new laws all the time. Those new laws are enforced. People have to obey them or face the consequences. How is this new? What's with the cognitive dissonance here?
Because the facts do not support the conclusion that life begins at conception and the courts have affirmed repeatedly that a fetus is not a person. Wouldn't you be a little perturbed if a group of Muslim fundamentalists were attempting to outlaw something without a secular basis?
The courts don't dictate my opinion. Nevertheless, that has nothing to do with my point, so maybe let him respond?
Siren.Akson
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-11-29 23:06:29
the last thing you ever get to do is claim to be "compassionate". I respect the idea of being sympathetic to someone who will never see the day of light. What I don't understand is this. Do you have no sympathy for women whom wish to abort? I imagine ya'll just say to yourselves "right is right and wrong is wrong and abortion is wrong" yet the woman herself, or couple, has to live with the choice made, not me or you. No sympathy whatsoever to them for having to be put into such a situation forced to make the decision?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-11-30 01:43:28
So, what, if someone is both pro-life and pro-welfare then it's all good? If not, this is nothing but a straw man.
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Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-11-30 03:48:10
Why is adoption such an impossibility? What is 9 months out of your party life worth? Is it worth a human life?
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 Leviathan.Vienne
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Leviathan.Vienne 2015-11-30 05:30:25
Sorry for walking in but....
Has anyone ever concidered that as a woman having or not having an abortion is a very difficult choice to make, if not the hardest decision you will have to make in your life. Women who have an abortion have to undergo a traumatising procedure and it doesnt end there. It puts pressure on your relationship and your social life, for some people you are the filth of the earth because you had an abortion. Not to forget you have to live with the choice you made for the rest of your life.
The only people who should have this discussion are people who have ever needed to make that choice.
 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-30 05:36:29
The only people who should have this discussion are people who have ever needed to make that choice I disagree.
Leviathan.Vienne
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Leviathan.Vienne 2015-11-30 05:40:50
The only people who should have this discussion are people who have ever needed to make that choice I disagree. that's your right :)
Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-30 05:47:50
There is no logical reason for which it should only involve those who have already been there. What about those who will in the future? Or that had or will have someone close to them involved?
It's a matter of human rights, it should rightly involve the entire population.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2623
By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-11-30 06:00:20
There is no logical reason for which it should only involve those who have already been there. What about those who will in the future? Or that had or will have someone close to them involved?
It's a matter of human rights, it should rightly involve the entire population. I figured she meant that each instance should be decided by the individuals involved, as opposed to having their choices made for them by the government. I don't think she meant that everyone else ought to be kept out of the discussion altogether. It's possible I'm just assuming my opinions match hers though.
Leviathan.Vienne
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Leviathan.Vienne 2015-11-30 06:08:35
There is no logical reason for which it should only involve those who have already been there. What about those who will in the future? Or that had or will have someone close to them involved?
It's a matter of human rights, it should rightly involve the entire population. I figured she meant that each instance should be decided by the individuals involved, as opposed to having their choices made for them by the government. I don't think she meant that everyone else ought to be kept out of the discussion altogether. It's possible I'm just assuming my opinions match hers though. Thank you, yes thats exactly what i meant :)
Sometimes its difficult making a point in a foreign language.
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Odin.Slore
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2015-11-30 08:06:09
I guess I would be more for it if it was not used so much as a form of birth control. I am all for it for cases of rape/incest/baby or mother going to die or be horribly deformed. I do not think however that because you keep getting knocked up because your irresponsible even though birth control is just about free in NY, that a baby has to die. Do a search for abortion numbers and you will see some sickening numbers. First search was a woman who has had 16 abortions, these are the vocal people that stand out and ruin your cause.
On a side note, late term abortions are monstrous and should never have been been legal. There is a special place in hell for those people. It is proven those babies felt that pain.
 Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2015-11-30 08:50:23
Women should have control over their own bodies, period. Just because some of you don't like that doesn't mean it should ever change. It's been this way for 40 some odd years, get over it.
By Jassik 2015-11-30 09:02:32
I guess I would be more for it if it was not used so much as a form of birth control. I am all for it for cases of rape/incest/baby or mother going to die or be horribly deformed. I do not think however that because you keep getting knocked up because your irresponsible even though birth control is just about free in NY, that a baby has to die. Do a search for abortion numbers and you will see some sickening numbers. First search was a woman who has had 16 abortions, these are the vocal people that stand out and ruin your cause.
On a side note, late term abortions are monstrous and should never have been been legal. There is a special place in hell for those people. It is proven those babies felt that pain.
I've never seen any evidence that women use abortion as birth control. In fact, I've never seen any evidence that there are any significant amount of women who have had more than one abortion.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-30 09:06:49
If you heart bleeds for a lion but not for an innocent fetus, you're nothing but a misanthrope. You see people as disposable, and the last thing you ever get to do is claim to be "compassionate".
Do you honestly believe you qualify as compassionate in any scenario? You'd want to force people to have babies even if they can't afford it and then since they can't properly take care of a child they'll need the social services you hate on so much and want completely defunded because you don't want to pay a single dollar to help the society.
Where's the compassion there?
The risks of sex are VERY well documented. No one advocates forcing anyone to participate. You advocate irresponsibility at the expense of human life.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-30 09:15:23
the last thing you ever get to do is claim to be "compassionate". I respect the idea of being sympathetic to someone who will never see the day of light. What I don't understand is this. Do you have no sympathy for women whom wish to abort? I imagine ya'll just say to yourselves "right is right and wrong is wrong and abortion is wrong" yet the woman herself, or couple, has to live with the choice made, not me or you. No sympathy whatsoever to them for having to be put into such a situation forced to make the decision?
I do have sympathy. I have great sympathy for people struggling with a wide variety of issues. I have good friends who have undertaken the procedure. It doesn't make me look for a way to dissolve our relationship, but that doesn't mean that I have to embrace their choice either.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2015-11-30 09:20:44
No one advocates forcing anyone to participate.
yes they do, they are called rapists.
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-30 09:23:20
No one advocates forcing anyone to participate.
yes they do, they are called rapists.
We're not talking about rapists, we're talking about "pro-lifers".
They don't advocate rape.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2015-11-30 09:25:33
We're not talking about rapists, we're talking about "pro-lifers".
one is almost as bad as the other.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-30 09:40:11
We're not talking about rapists, we're talking about "pro-lifers".
one is almost as bad as the other. It is this point where any conversation to be had with certain people is pointless.
When certain people consider babies to be parasites, and pro-lifers to be almost as bad a rapists because they have a different viewpoint, then you know that any further discussion would be counterproductive.
It's almost like these certain people are trolling. But we can't call them trolls unless they are Republican, right?
Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2015-11-30 09:47:27
It's almost like these certain people are trolling. But we can't call them trolls unless they are Republican, right?
Both sides of this debate are completely intractable; neither can exactly throw stones in this regard.
This is becoming the case on more and more issues, unfortunately.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-30 09:54:11
It's almost like these certain people are trolling. But we can't call them trolls unless they are Republican, right?
Both sides of this debate are completely intractable; neither can exactly throw stones in this regard.
This is becoming the case on more and more issues, unfortunately. Except how many public warnings have been issued to the liberals on this website for "trolling" people?
I have received more public warnings for "trolling" people for my opinions than anyone else, except maybe Altima (another conservative). Where are the public warnings for "trolling" people for Jassik or Mosin? If I wrote what they wrote, I would have certainly received a warning for "trolling."
But to your defense Rooks, these public warnings haven't been as prevalent now as before you were mod/admin.
By Jetackuu 2015-11-30 09:58:49
Both sides of this debate are completely intractable
I actually changed my stance on this particular debate a few years ago thanks to discussion on this very site.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2015-11-30 10:06:26
It is this point where any conversation to be had with certain people is pointless.
any conversation with you is pointless.
the post you were pointing out was a joke, admittedly in poor taste, but a joke none-the-less.
I have received more public warnings for "trolling" people for my opinions than anyone else, except maybe Altima (another conservative). Where are the public warnings for "trolling" people for Jassik or Mosin? If I wrote what they wrote, I would have certainly received a warning for "trolling."
are you sure you're not a liberal? you sure play the victim better than anyone I've seen...
Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2015-11-30 10:09:32
I actually changed my stance on this particular debate a few years ago thanks to discussion on this very site.
THEN YOU ARE WEAK
But to your defense Rooks, these public warnings haven't been as prevalent now as before you were mod/admin.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of big showy explosions unless people don't leave me any choice in the matter. They don't convince anyone, whereas an reasonable discussion in PM sometimes can. People who make it clear they can't or won't be reasoned with still get the mushroom cloud, though.
Odin.Slore
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2015-11-30 10:14:03
I guess I would be more for it if it was not used so much as a form of birth control. I am all for it for cases of rape/incest/baby or mother going to die or be horribly deformed. I do not think however that because you keep getting knocked up because your irresponsible even though birth control is just about free in NY, that a baby has to die. Do a search for abortion numbers and you will see some sickening numbers. First search was a woman who has had 16 abortions, these are the vocal people that stand out and ruin your cause.
On a side note, late term abortions are monstrous and should never have been been legal. There is a special place in hell for those people. It is proven those babies felt that pain.
I've never seen any evidence that women use abortion as birth control. In fact, I've never seen any evidence that there are any significant amount of women who have had more than one abortion.
There is a national support group for abortion addicts. Link provided
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-30 10:16:15
I want to point out an obvious troll post that doesn't even get looked at, and I'm 100% sure that an administrator has seen it:
It is this point where any conversation to be had with certain people is pointless.
any conversation with you is pointless.
the post you were pointing out was a joke, admittedly in poor taste, but a joke none-the-less.
I have received more public warnings for "trolling" people for my opinions than anyone else, except maybe Altima (another conservative). Where are the public warnings for "trolling" people for Jassik or Mosin? If I wrote what they wrote, I would have certainly received a warning for "trolling."
are you sure you're not a liberal? you sure play the victim better than anyone I've seen... This quoted post is an obvious attempt to illicit a specific negative response towards a specific person, which is by definition a troll post. And yet, nothing gets done. There is no need to use the report feature as this is an obvious troll post that an administrator has seen....
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