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Random Politics & Religion #00
Random Politics & Religion #00
Well, hate crimes are crimes against a protected class specifically because of that status. So, gender, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc. I mean, if you want to make a separate term for race oriented hate crimes and start recording statistics for it, go for it. Those stats are already included in the hate crimes stats, you just have to dig a little deeper.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Hardly supportive of the 'hate filled America was out for Muslims' that's floating around here.
Wow, really?
You're accusing KN of "hating America" now for citing the common knowledge of an increase in hate crimes against Muslims and people of Middle Eastern heritage following the 9/11/01 attacks?
Because that's literally all that happened. He mentioned that the U.S. saw an increase in such hate crimes following 9/11. You've run with it from there.
All we did was mention that some idiots in the U.S. took misplaced fear and rage out on innocents in (what were likely) record numbers.
So, in a town not far from here someone impaled a severed pig head on the door of a mosque and wrote *** ISIS on it too.
The reaction of the imam: "Eh, kids."
The reaction of the imam: "Eh, kids."
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
The reaction of the imam: "Eh, kids."
He's right, really.
It's petty, childish behavior, whether they're chronologically children or not. ^^;
Ramyrez said: »
While the arbitrary use of the word "skyrocketing" is questionable, to be even with relation to the American population, assuming approximately 5M Muslims in American and 74.5M African Americans, the same year would have required ~7167 hate crimes against blacks, which would have been nearly 75% of hate crimes.
While may be close to the accurate number given the nature of our country and its racial/ethnic makeup*, if you tease that out a little further still, to increase in the same proportion, there would have to have only been 423 hate crimes against blacks in the prior year.
Which is, sadly, in no way accurate.
So while you may dislike the use of the word "skyrocketing" and feel it slightly sensationalist, there was a prominent, statistically-significant increase in the amount of hate crimes versus Muslims in the U.S. following 9/11 for reasons that really aren't very hard to understand.
Scared, ignorant people lash out against something they view as a threat.
*Edit: Also, with the growing number of Hispanics in the U.S. and the ever-present amount of immigrants from various Pacific Rim nations, the remaining 20% (that is, not the 5% toward Muslims, 75% toward blacks) seems insufficient to account for hate crimes toward other ethnicities and religions.
While may be close to the accurate number given the nature of our country and its racial/ethnic makeup*, if you tease that out a little further still, to increase in the same proportion, there would have to have only been 423 hate crimes against blacks in the prior year.
Which is, sadly, in no way accurate.
So while you may dislike the use of the word "skyrocketing" and feel it slightly sensationalist, there was a prominent, statistically-significant increase in the amount of hate crimes versus Muslims in the U.S. following 9/11 for reasons that really aren't very hard to understand.
Scared, ignorant people lash out against something they view as a threat.
*Edit: Also, with the growing number of Hispanics in the U.S. and the ever-present amount of immigrants from various Pacific Rim nations, the remaining 20% (that is, not the 5% toward Muslims, 75% toward blacks) seems insufficient to account for hate crimes toward other ethnicities and religions.
So I was with you up until the bold. Although the proper word would be "disproportionate".
Don't you realize that your characterization of people as "lash-outs" is just as prejudice as the attitudes you despise in said people?
I mean we're talking about 500 incidents in a country of 300 million. That really doesn't deserve a "news flash" unless you're pushing an agenda or just stroking your PC ***.
Just found funny the serpahic, unimpressed, response.
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Ramyrez said: »
You're accusing KN of "hating America"
If you read MSM articles, just being a Republican makes you a racist, sexist, xenophobe, tin-foil hat wearing, baby kicking, flag burning, bald eagle punching, anti-government hack.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I mean we're talking about 500 incidents in a country of 300 million. That really doesn't deserve a "news flash" unless you're pushing an agenda or just stroking your PC ***.
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
You're accusing KN of "hating America"
If you read MSM articles, just being a Republican makes you a racist, sexist, xenophobe, tin-foil hat wearing, baby kicking, flag burning, bald eagle punching, anti-government hack.
And here I was certain that I hated America because I'm a baby murdering, money stealing, entitled, lazy, good-for-nothing, welfare-supporting, flag-burning, bald-eagle-punching, capitalism-hating, Satan-worshipping carbuncle on the *** of society.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE NOTHING CAN BE SIMPLE ANYMORE.
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Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
You're accusing KN of "hating America"
If you read MSM articles, just being a Republican makes you a racist, sexist, xenophobe, tin-foil hat wearing, baby kicking, flag burning, bald eagle punching, anti-government hack.
And here I was certain that I hated America because I'm a baby murdering, money stealing, entitled, lazy, good-for-nothing, welfare-supporting, flag-burning, bald-eagle-punching, capitalism-hating, Santan-worshipping carbuncle on the *** of society.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE NOTHING CAN BE SIMPLE ANYMORE.
Who says that two people of opposite political sides can't get along in this nation?
You worship Santana?
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I mean we're talking about 500 incidents in a country of 300 million. That really doesn't deserve a "news flash" unless you're pushing an agenda or just stroking your PC ***.
No, not particularly. That's less than 2 per day in a country of 300 million. What defines the majority of these hate crimes? Spray painting "go home terrorist" on the side of a muslim owned business or mosque? I betcha that would indeed qualify as a "hate crime".
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting it isn't bad, but contrast that to the fact that a small handful of Islamic terrorists just killed over a 100 people in the name of the religion of peace in one day and one is clearly worth more effort for worry than the other.
I mean honestly, there's probably not many better places to be than America if you're a Muslim and a target of Muslim backlash.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You worship Santana?
No, just Santa and Satin.
Edit: Went looking for a picture to represent this particular typo's frequency. Googled "satan santa satin"
Got this on the first row of images!
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I mean we're talking about 500 incidents in a country of 300 million. That really doesn't deserve a "news flash" unless you're pushing an agenda or just stroking your PC ***.
No, not particularly. That's less than 2 per day in a country of 300 million. What defines the majority of these hate crimes? Spray painting "go home terrorist" on the side of a muslim owned business or mosque? I betcha that would indeed qualify as a "hate crime".
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting it isn't bad, but contrast that to the fact that a small handful of Islamic terrorists just killed over a 100 people in the name of the religion of peace in one day and one is clearly worth more effort for worry than the other.
I mean honestly, there's probably not many better places to be than America if you're a Muslim and a target of Muslim backlash.
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Hardly supportive of the 'hate filled America was out for Muslims' that's floating around here.
Wow, really?
You're accusing KN of "hating America" now for citing the common knowledge of an increase in hate crimes against Muslims and people of Middle Eastern heritage following the 9/11/01 attacks?
Because that's literally all that happened. He mentioned that the U.S. saw an increase in such hate crimes following 9/11. You've run with it from there.
All we did was mention that some idiots in the U.S. took misplaced fear and rage out on innocents in (what were likely) record numbers.
I was specifically disagreeing with the adjective he used.
Subsequently I wasn't referring to his attitudes of "america is full of haters" but the general hyperbole that came through after I made the comment.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Subsequently I wasn't referring to his attitudes of "america is full of haters" but the general hyperbole that came through after I made the comment.
No one got un-American up in here, the only thing a few people -- well, pretty much everyone -- did was dispute your notion that the increase was insignificant because it wasn't enough to "matter."
I stated that a few ignorant, scared people lashed out against something they didn't understand, which is quite true. Yet you've taken that as an affront to all Americans.
It's official. And congratulations, because it's extraordinarily rare that I say this, but...
...you've strawmanned it.
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I mean we're talking about 500 incidents in a country of 300 million. That really doesn't deserve a "news flash" unless you're pushing an agenda or just stroking your PC ***.
No, not particularly. That's less than 2 per day in a country of 300 million. What defines the majority of these hate crimes? Spray painting "go home terrorist" on the side of a muslim owned business or mosque? I betcha that would indeed qualify as a "hate crime".
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting it isn't bad, but contrast that to the fact that a small handful of Islamic terrorists just killed over a 100 people in the name of the religion of peace in one day and one is clearly worth more effort for worry than the other.
I mean honestly, there's probably not many better places to be than America if you're a Muslim and a target of Muslim backlash.
Yes I'm aware that not all hate crimes are reported. That doesn't make it any easier to quantify that we're full of racists and haters.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I mean we're talking about 500 incidents in a country of 300 million. That really doesn't deserve a "news flash" unless you're pushing an agenda or just stroking your PC ***.
No, not particularly. That's less than 2 per day in a country of 300 million. What defines the majority of these hate crimes? Spray painting "go home terrorist" on the side of a muslim owned business or mosque? I betcha that would indeed qualify as a "hate crime".
Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting it isn't bad, but contrast that to the fact that a small handful of Islamic terrorists just killed over a 100 people in the name of the religion of peace in one day and one is clearly worth more effort for worry than the other.
I mean honestly, there's probably not many better places to be than America if you're a Muslim and a target of Muslim backlash.
Yes I'm aware that not all hate crimes are reported. That doesn't make it any easier to quantify that we're full of racists and haters.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
~290 million Americans in 2001 and less than 10k hate crimes for the year?
Life is good in America. Hate crimes aren't an epidemic as some people state they are....
If you believe the media, everywhere in the nation there's a hate crime every second.....
Life is good in America. Hate crimes aren't an epidemic as some people state they are....
If you believe the media, everywhere in the nation there's a hate crime every second.....
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Subsequently I wasn't referring to his attitudes of "america is full of haters" but the general hyperbole that came through after I made the comment.
No one got un-American up in here, the only thing a few people -- well, pretty much everyone -- did was dispute your notion that the increase was insignificant because it wasn't enough to "matter."
I stated that a few ignorant, scared people lashed out against something they didn't understand, which is quite true. Yet you've taken that as an affront to all Americans.
It's official. And congratulations, because it's extraordinarily rare that I say this, but...
...you've strawmanned it.
Nope
Jassik said: »
Look at the increase in hate crimes against non-muslim arabics, hindus, etc. Locally, we had an Indian family have rotten beef thrown at their business. That says two things: 1. They knew they were Hindu and 2. They didn't care, it was just an excuse to exercise some racism.
Jassik was speaking of the one exact case he referenced.
Please try again.
Edit: I'll explain.
1. People are angry at Muslims.
2. Angry people find family of brown people.
3. People know they're Hindu because they throw rotten beef to insult them*
*Now you see, they know they're Hindus -- not Muslims -- because they're throwing rotten cow meat at people whose religion considers bovines divine. And they threw meat anyhow. Thereby making Jassik's assertion likely correct for this instance.
Please try again.
Edit: I'll explain.
1. People are angry at Muslims.
2. Angry people find family of brown people.
3. People know they're Hindu because they throw rotten beef to insult them*
*Now you see, they know they're Hindus -- not Muslims -- because they're throwing rotten cow meat at people whose religion considers bovines divine. And they threw meat anyhow. Thereby making Jassik's assertion likely correct for this instance.
Charlo999 posted in some other thread but it's such a great vid.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Ramyrez said: »
Jassik was speaking of the one exact case he referenced.
Please try again.
Please try again.
Because he knows why someone did it, and it was because they were a hater.
Living here is a little less great if you belong to a group targeted by hate crimes. I wouldn't deny that we're better off than a lot of countries, but there's no reason to downplay any kind of crime with that kind of rationale.
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Living here is a little less great if you belong to a group targeted by hate crimes. I wouldn't deny that we're better off than a lot of countries, but there's no reason to downplay any kind of crime with that kind of rationale.
Basically this.
"Well you're better off here than elsewhere" is a classic method of dodging the responsibility of actually addressing a wrongdoing.
So, I had to go look at google images for "Worshipping Satin". Did not disappoint.
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Living here is a little less great if you belong to a group targeted by hate crimes. I wouldn't deny that we're better off than a lot of countries, but there's no reason to downplay any kind of crime with that kind of rationale.
Ramyrez said: »
Basically this.
"Well you're better off here than elsewhere" is a classic method of dodging the responsibility of actually addressing a wrongdoing.
"Well you're better off here than elsewhere" is a classic method of dodging the responsibility of actually addressing a wrongdoing.
Hey I said it was bad didn't I?
There's plenty of reason to downplay such a thing, there is no need to call the entire city water department when you only have a dripping faucet.
(that doesn't mean a dripping faucet is good)
What is analagous to calling the water department in this conversation? You could diminish any kind of wrongful act, but... why?
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
What is analagous to calling the water department in this conversation? You could diminish any kind of wrongful act, but... why?
We are all guilty of discrediting some horrible act or some shameful event if our argument requires it.
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