Random Politics & Religion #00

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:15:46  
Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
A blind man could see the double standard here.

There's only a double standard in the strictest, most literal sense, but the implication that both groups are equally valid and deserve equal consideration is a bit far fetched.

The problem is when you apply even a modicum of common sense it's fairly clear one is purposed with trying to achieve equal footing for people of a given ethnicity/genetic background (I despise the word "race," as if we're not all human) and the other is motivated by less-than-savory ideals.

But, again -- unless I misunderstand the situation -- this isn't an issue of freedoms of speech. It's an issue of whether the university has a right to police its own organizations according to the principles of its board members, and I'm pretty sure it does.

Edit:

To expand on this a little:
Odin.Slore said: »
, but when a group of whites tries to promote their agenda in the same way all of a sudden now it is wrong for them?

It is literally impossible for a "white rights group" to promote an agenda in the same way as an African American proponents' group does because "whites" have never been a specifically oppressed group in this culture and country. Individual ethnicities have in their own ways each had their own significant adversities, it's true, but not nearly to the point of, oh, I don't know. Institutional, generational slavery and lingering feelings of resentment and segregation that continue to this day.
Two things:

1) The university has a right to police their student clubs, as long as it's not a protected group. Unfortunately, Civil Rights Act of 1964 is (supposed to be) blind to discrimination based by race (along with other protected classes). Meaning if a white rights group is discriminated against, the university just committed a Civil Rights violation. Nobody seems to talk about the other side of the coin when it comes to Civil Rights violations, everyone just assumes that a violation means some black person got their feelings hurt.

2) Why is it now that these protests are happening when racial disparities are at an all time low? We don't have slavery here in the US, there is no segregation that is allowed by law, and racial profiling is less today than it was 40-50-60-100 years ago. So, why is it now that there is more racism protests than there were back in MLK days? Especially since African Americans are a more "protected class" today than ever before.
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By Odin.Slore 2015-11-24 11:24:30  
I think a lot of it is people trying to milk the system. One thing goes wrong for me and I will blame everyone else mentality. This country is quickly turning to whine session to get what they want. Everyone is offended by everything, no one can talk to anyone anymore for fear of saying something someone else deems hurtful. The PC click is taking over and as much as people do not want to hear it liberals and the left are creating this monster and feeding it. Minority thug gets shot resisting arrest and the president weighs in on it but 30 cops get killed and he does not have a word to say. When I was in the military we never had this pc ***. Everyone was brothers regardless of race or anything else. Maybe make military service mandatory for all able bodied citizens like other countries do. No service no right to vote etc.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 11:27:07  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Why is it now that these protests are happening when racial disparities are at an all time low? We don't have slavery here in the US, there is no segregation that is allowed by law, and racial profiling is less today than it was 40-50-60-100 years ago. So, why is it now that there is more racism protests than there were back in MLK days? Especially since African Americans are a more "protected class" today than ever before.

Lots of it comes down to perceptions in many, many facets and applications of the word. "Media exposure" is another phrase that comes to mind.

As to your first point, I'm not well read into the specific subject at hand but my guess is that it is not a question of the civil rights of the pissy white boys brigade being violated.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 11:30:32  
Odin.Slore said: »
Maybe make military service mandatory for all able bodied citizens like other countries do. No service no right to vote etc
Just when I thought what you say couldn't reach a lower peak..lol.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 11:33:18  
Odin.Slore said: »
I think a lot of it is people trying to milk the system. One thing goes wrong for me and I will blame everyone else mentality. This country is quickly turning to whine session to get what they want. Everyone is offended by everything, no one can talk to anyone anymore for fear of saying something someone else deems hurtful. The PC click is taking over and as much as people do not want to hear it liberals and the left are creating this monster and feeding it. Minority thug gets shot resisting arrest and the president weighs in on it but 30 cops get killed and he does not have a word to say. When I was in the military we never had this pc ***. Everyone was brothers regardless of race or anything else. Maybe make military service mandatory for all able bodied citizens like other countries do. No service no right to vote etc.

Extremes on both sides of the political fence are controlling things these days which is certainly a major contributing factor.

Mandatory military service is problematic, but given you're suggesting it I'm almost positive you're blind -- willfully or otherwise -- to the problems inherent within that mindset or the juxtaposed ideologies involved.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 11:35:06  
Anyway back to not-ww3..I don't know how long it's been going on but I only learned about it today that Russia is selling missiles to Persia(that were previously banned by nato) and training its troops.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:37:42  
Ramyrez said: »
Lots of it comes down to perceptions in many, many facets and applications of the word. "Media exposure" is another phrase that comes to mind.
It has everything to do with media exposure, and that's the main problem, isn't it?

MSM has no concern about reporting the facts/truth or public interest, all they care about is advertising revenue. And it's all thanks to this new 24-hr news reporting cycle we have in the previous decade or so.

That would explain why articles about "white rights groups" get placed on the headlines while articles about the emergency NATO meeting be placed in the sideline, hard to find unless you know specifically where to look...

Ramyrez said: »
As to your first point, I'm not well read into the specific subject at hand but my guess is that it is not a question of the civil rights of the pissy white boys brigade being violated.
I already stated that I thought the whole notion was stupid, but then again, it's a justified response to the other protest groups that have been popping up lately, and a direct response to said groups.

Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
Maybe make military service mandatory for all able bodied citizens like other countries do. No service no right to vote etc
Just when I thought what you say couldn't reach a lower peak..lol.
Don't blame the man for thinking that military service is the way to go. That's his opinion and he has a right to it, and obviously it changed his viewpoint on the world at large.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:38:20  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Anyway back to not-ww3..I don't know how long it's been going on but I only learned about it today that Russia is selling missiles to Persia(that were previously banned by nato) and training its troops.
Source?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:40:02  
Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
I think a lot of it is people trying to milk the system. One thing goes wrong for me and I will blame everyone else mentality. This country is quickly turning to whine session to get what they want. Everyone is offended by everything, no one can talk to anyone anymore for fear of saying something someone else deems hurtful. The PC click is taking over and as much as people do not want to hear it liberals and the left are creating this monster and feeding it. Minority thug gets shot resisting arrest and the president weighs in on it but 30 cops get killed and he does not have a word to say. When I was in the military we never had this pc ***. Everyone was brothers regardless of race or anything else. Maybe make military service mandatory for all able bodied citizens like other countries do. No service no right to vote etc.

Extremes on both sides of the political fence are controlling things these days which is certainly a major contributing factor.

Mandatory military service is problematic, but given you're suggesting it I'm almost positive you're blind -- willfully or otherwise -- to the problems inherent within that mindset or the juxtaposed ideologies involved.
He is a follower, not a leader, so don't blame him for not understanding that boot camp is not for everyone.

Even if I had the body for it, boot camp wouldn't be good for me because I question orders given to me, not blindly follow them. I would have been kicked out of the Army before I finished boot camp.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 11:41:05  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Anyway back to not-ww3..I don't know how long it's been going on but I only learned about it today that Russia is selling missiles to Persia(that were previously banned by nato) and training its troops.
Source?
Try this
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-11-24 11:41:11  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Don't forget, Turkey did commit an act of war by shooting down 2 Russian jets. Regardless of the warnings, they shot them down instead of escorting them out of Turkey's airspace. And you are gleeful about the jets being shot down.

They didn't respond to 10 warnings over 5 minutes according to our military authorities. If they did, they wouldn't even needed to be escorted out. They would have just left. I don't like what has just happened over there but the situation is not that simple to be called an act of war right off the bat.
That's why they should have been escorted out of said airspace instead of being shot down immediately. I'm sure if any country that flies over US airspace and we shoot them down, that would have been considered an act of war then.

Siren.Mosin said: »
The russians have been trampling all over everyone's sovereignty for the last two years, they had an incident like this one coming. Turkey has every right to defend it's airspace.
Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace from aggression. Did Russia attack Turkey or was going to attack Turkey?

I'm not defending Russia from flying in Turkish airspace, but to be shot down? I'm not buying it.

If anything, Turkey is the aggressor in this case.
Turkey has repeatedly told Russia to back off the last few weeks. Several Russian military commanders visited Turkey last week to confirm Turkey's protocol on airspace. As Turkey has not shot down previous Rusdian incursions.

This was a foreign military plane equipped with bombs that invaded a countries sovereign airspace

As Mosin said Russia has been testing several countries defense for many months now. They were told the consequences of repeated violations and now they (and all of us) have to deal with them.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:45:06  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Don't forget, Turkey did commit an act of war by shooting down 2 Russian jets. Regardless of the warnings, they shot them down instead of escorting them out of Turkey's airspace. And you are gleeful about the jets being shot down.

They didn't respond to 10 warnings over 5 minutes according to our military authorities. If they did, they wouldn't even needed to be escorted out. They would have just left. I don't like what has just happened over there but the situation is not that simple to be called an act of war right off the bat.
That's why they should have been escorted out of said airspace instead of being shot down immediately. I'm sure if any country that flies over US airspace and we shoot them down, that would have been considered an act of war then.

Siren.Mosin said: »
The russians have been trampling all over everyone's sovereignty for the last two years, they had an incident like this one coming. Turkey has every right to defend it's airspace.
Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace from aggression. Did Russia attack Turkey or was going to attack Turkey?

I'm not defending Russia from flying in Turkish airspace, but to be shot down? I'm not buying it.

If anything, Turkey is the aggressor in this case.
Turkey has repeatedly told Russia to back off the last few weeks. Several Russian military commanders visited Turkey last week to confirm Turkey's protocol on airspace. As Turkey has not shot down previous Rusdian incursions.

This was a foreign military plane equipped with bombs that invaded a countries sovereign airspace

As Mosin said Russia has been testing several countries defense for many months now. They were told the consequences of repeated violations and now they (and all of us) have to deal with them.
And that still justified the deaths of the two pilots?

Don't you think that escorting said airplanes out of Turkey's airspace would have been a more justified response?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:45:15  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Anyway back to not-ww3..I don't know how long it's been going on but I only learned about it today that Russia is selling missiles to Persia(that were previously banned by nato) and training its troops.
Source?
Try this
Thanks.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 11:47:53  
I don't know international laws so I can't tell whether what Turkey did was right or wrong; but I remember we were talking about this very topic of Turkey giving warnings to Russia about entering its airspace only a few months ago, and everyone was like "yeah Russia is just posturing". Today it sure makes me wonder why Russia is trying so hard to ignite the fires of war(passive-aggressively, but still).
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:51:28  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Today it sure makes me wonder why Russia is trying so hard to ignite the fires of war(passive-aggressively, but still).
Russia doesn't want to start a war, it would destroy them economically and socially. They just aren't prepared for it.

That doesn't mean that they won't be in one, they just don't want to start it. Putin would rather other people fight on their (Russia's) behalf. For example: Ukraine.

Either way, it's better to stir up public support as a defender than it is as an aggressor.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 11:52:34  
Yeah, technically Turkey started. But Russia's still doing a lot of provoking nonetheless.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-24 11:54:32  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
As Mosin said Russia has been testing several countries defense for many months now. They were told the consequences of repeated violations and now they (and all of us) have to deal with them.

They do this here so I like that Turkey shot them down but I feel bad for the pilots who were killed by the rebels since they were just following orders.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 11:59:03  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Yeah, technically Turkey started. But Russia's still doing a lot of provoking nonetheless.
Not going to deny Russia's involvement, but history rarely records provokers, it usually records instigators.

Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
As Mosin said Russia has been testing several countries defense for many months now. They were told the consequences of repeated violations and now they (and all of us) have to deal with them.

They do this here so I like that Turkey shot them down but I feel bad for the pilots who were killed by the rebels since they were just following orders.
What does your country tell Russia when they fly over their airspace?

Question is, are countries going to start shooting down Russian jets with no fear of retaliation or start escorting said jets out of their airspace? I'm sure if countries escort said jets out of the airspace, Russia would stop flying over said airspace (as it interferes with their operations).
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-24 12:01:02  
We send up fighter jets to show them that we know they're there, they're testing our preparedness after all and they usually leave after that.

*** move though
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 12:03:15  
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
*** move though
Agreed.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 12:08:30  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
I think a lot of it is people trying to milk the system. One thing goes wrong for me and I will blame everyone else mentality. This country is quickly turning to whine session to get what they want. Everyone is offended by everything, no one can talk to anyone anymore for fear of saying something someone else deems hurtful. The PC click is taking over and as much as people do not want to hear it liberals and the left are creating this monster and feeding it. Minority thug gets shot resisting arrest and the president weighs in on it but 30 cops get killed and he does not have a word to say. When I was in the military we never had this pc ***. Everyone was brothers regardless of race or anything else. Maybe make military service mandatory for all able bodied citizens like other countries do. No service no right to vote etc.

Extremes on both sides of the political fence are controlling things these days which is certainly a major contributing factor.

Mandatory military service is problematic, but given you're suggesting it I'm almost positive you're blind -- willfully or otherwise -- to the problems inherent within that mindset or the juxtaposed ideologies involved.
He is a follower, not a leader, so don't blame him for not understanding that boot camp is not for everyone.

Even if I had the body for it, boot camp wouldn't be good for me because I question orders given to me, not blindly follow them. I would have been kicked out of the Army before I finished boot camp.

Hence my "willfully or otherwise" comment. I completely understand why he feels it's a good idea and while it certainly has merit in some ways, much like other institutions that people want that work well elsewhere, it would have serious limitations and problems in the U.S.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 12:10:02  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Yeah, technically Turkey started. But Russia's still doing a lot of provoking nonetheless.

Yeah. This has never sit well with me.

It's like when a kid snaps and breaks the nose of a bully who has been picking on him for years and then he gets in trouble because technically the bully "didn't start it."
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 12:10:45  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Today it sure makes me wonder why Russia is trying so hard to ignite the fires of war(passive-aggressively, but still).

My guess is that Putin is insecure about the size of his ***.

Literally or in some figurative "my place in history" sense, take your pick.
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By Siren.Akson 2015-11-24 12:12:00  
The issue with the Black Lives Matter group is it's own political aim and objective.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 12:13:51  

The issue with Black Lives Matter is that the environment that has fostered it and allowed it to exist and grow at all, and that we haven't addressed it as a country long before it got to this point.
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By Siren.Akson 2015-11-24 12:18:28  
Ramyrez said: »

The issue with Black Lives Matter is that the environment that has fostered it and allowed it to exist and grow at all, and that we haven't addressed it as a country long before it got to this point.
Haven't paid much mind to BLM personally. I just find it foolish when the issue is blacks killing blacks and NOT racism against blacks whatsoever. Like fighting a ghost of the past when the real issue itself is ignored.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-24 12:21:02  
This whole story is bullcrap. Brian Williams shot down that Russian jet over Turkey.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 12:33:10  
Ramyrez said: »

The issue with Black Lives Matter is that the environment that has fostered it and allowed it to exist and grow at all, and that we haven't addressed it as a country long before it got to this point.
So, do we deport Sharpton or Jackson?

I mean, they are the environment that has fostered and allowed it to exist and grow at all, not only that, but also are the fuel to the fire and the fan to spread it so far.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 12:35:13  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »

The issue with Black Lives Matter is that the environment that has fostered it and allowed it to exist and grow at all, and that we haven't addressed it as a country long before it got to this point.
So, do we deport Sharpton or Jackson?

I mean, they are the environment that has fostered and allowed it to exist and grow at all, not only that, but also are the fuel to the fire and the fan to spread it so far.

They're opportunistic *** who take advantage of the situation. They are not the cause.

That said, if you want to dump them both somewhere in the South Pacific so Cthulhu can eat them, I'm cool with that.

Edit: All this to say, we've (that is, the royal "we" of P&R) have had this conversation so many times it's pointless to rehash.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-24 12:38:40  
Ramyrez said: »
That said, if you want to dump them both somewhere in the South Pacific so Cthulhu can eat them, I'm cool with that.
I rather send them to space so the Spaghetti Monster can take care of them, Japanese Schoolgirl style.

Ramyrez said: »
Edit: All this to say, we've (that is, the royal "we" of P&R) have had this conversation so many times it's pointless to rehash.
I think we have come to the point of talking about most everything political anyway, so every conversation we have is a rehash from something different.

AKA Benghazi.
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