Random Politics & Religion #00

It's a ridiculous question. What sane person would form that question based on what I said? Is there any scenario where a restaurant will tie the cost of your meal directly to the wage earned for an entire 8 hour shift? Is there any scenario where a restaurant shouldn't be lambasted for having an employee sit around for an entire shift? Why should a place that's so poorly managed be allowed to even exist?

I ask the same question about the White House all the time.

So, that's a "no"?

You're whole premise is based on charging people more so that the server is properly compensated instead of tipping. You clearly only mean it if you can spread the cost over many other patrons who might not even exist.

Uh, no, I don't have a premise. There's no reason that restaurants and a few other service industries should be allowed to pay people a fraction of the minimum wage and shift the burden of compensating their employees directly to the customer. It also lessens their payroll tax burden, effectively pushing that burden onto the employee.

IF they had to increase the cost of a meal a few bucks to offset the extra labor cost, it would still cost the consumer the same or even less. Your criticism of a no-tip model is based on some very remedial math.

I really don't understand either crowd completely in this whole no-tipping thing. It's not all pros, it's not all cons. It would hurt some businesses and their employees and it would benefit others. Obviously those servers who have the slow shifts would be equalized (a pro), but those who have had to earn their good shifts with the good tips could take a serious hit (a con).

There is also a psychological aspect to raising your prices by over 10%. True, some people would realize that they're going to pay less in the end by not having to tip, but the reality is that people don't always think that way. Ask random people if they'd rather pay for a $50 meal with 15% gratuity or a $57 meal without and watch the responses. There's also the take-out crowd that is going to be paying more for a meal that they wouldn't be tipping for anyway, so they're basically out extra cash and might look for cheaper places to eat instead.

Other people might like the environment of eating at a place where the menu price is all you have to pay and not have to judge the server or feel like a Scrooge for not paying a tip if it's optional. For places with staffing issues, it also might decrease turnover of employees if they don't feel like they're getting screwed because they'll never get the shifts occupied by the career waiters/waitresses who have had seniority strangleholds on high-tip shifts for years. It might also chase employees away if there is no longer any incentive to work during high-traffic hours. Without tips, it may no longer be worth the stress of having to deal with so many customers.

See? A nuanced issue. If some restaurants want to try out a no-tip method and see how it works for them, good on 'em. Nobody should be forcing the others to follow suit though.

Nobody is proposing forcing restaurants to change it and no-tip models don't mean no tips, it means they aren't the primary means of compensation but rather a reward for outstanding service.

There's going to be pros and cons to everything. That's a pretty weak stance against change.

No-tip models will mean less tips, so some servers would still take a hit that would not be compensated by higher pay alone.

Also, I love how you twist my middle ground analysis of pros and cons into a stance against change.


My, what a bold stance against no-tip practices I'm taking. I'm such a hardliner.

Your stance is the same in every situation where disparities affect others. "No solution is perfect so let's do nothing". My second favorite is the "Nobody should be forced", which nobody has proposed.

Really, all we need is some line about how the giving people a living wage punishes the winners and we'll have the faux conservative trifecta.


Nvm, already have it.

Yeah, you have that, along with the pros I gave for how it could benefit employees too. I can't believe how hard you flail to try and paint a picture that isn't there. I'm not some Scooby Doo villain that you can rip the Reasonable Human mask off to reveal the Wingnut Conservative.

And no, I never said "No solution is perfect so let's do nothing", I implied that no solution is perfect, so let the individual businesses decide what works best for them and their employees.
Holy crap, that almost sounds like something a libertarian would say! Wait, if I take your libertarian mask off, will I find, *gasp*, Wingnut Liberal?!?

Jinkies!

You're missing the point. A libertarian would say that if anyone friggin' asked. NOBODY has said a word about legislation or forcing businesses in ANY way.

That's my criticism of your usual arguments. They always have to include some "don't tread on me" and "nothing is perfect so do nothing" clauses regardless of whether it's even relevant. It's a radical ideology that you're trying very hard to pass off as moderate. And, just like the more obvious loonies, anyone who calls you out is automatically some liberal caricature.

The guy who tries to pass me off as a conservative caricature is accusing me of making other people out to be liberal caricatures. Stellar. At any rate, I'm done with this topic. I'll let other people deal with Captain Nit-Pick here. Slap-fights are fun, but not when they've been started 937 times by the exact same guy with a very large chip on his shoulder.

I think jassik is a waiter at bob evans...

I don't know where he gets all the give a ***. I couldn't be forced to care about tipping at gun point.

/pushes the change the channel button on the remote

If you're in doubt you can check with KN to know at what restaurants, if any, Jassik has worked.

The kind where you have been stuck in the same bed for almost 2 months, the kind where you haven't quite stop bleeding enough to stand up at all.

Plus, they already found my replacement a while back. So, it's kindof hard to give any feedback where I don't even know what's going on in the company anymore.

But yeah, I appreciate everyone's virulence behavior towards me on this thread.

1, Your.

2, Your premise is based on forcing customers to subsidize sub living, and often sub minimum wages.

3, 2 is OK because the IRS forces them to as well.

maybe hang around remo mcfeely less, you're getting a little mushy.


car/motorcycle accident? are you missing a limb?







oh yeah, what are all the restaurants jassik works at?

I washed dishes in a mexican place in high school, that's about the extent of my food service career.

I started around Cinco and quit by Christmas.

Some back and forth in here is fine, within reason. KN certainly invited some blowback with his attempt at big-timing, BUT: going after KN's accident is not okay, and Spicyseconds has been topic banned.

we'll just see about that....

/waits for kn's report

Stay tuned in 2 weeks to find out who will be the next challenger to be eliminated from

Random P&R: Death Battle!!

Only one poster will be left in the end!

You are going to wait forever.

I don't see any attempt at big-timing, but ok.