Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 17:00:22  
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Even if someone has raped your partner you can't just run after them and beat them to death, that's also murder though I would cheer the guy on for doing that

How can you condone the action yet use the word that sends them to prison?
Because what he is getting at is the legality of it, and how he feels about the situation.

Two completely different things, yet not entirely separated from each other in reality.

Would I also cheer on what the guy did? of course, but I can recognize excessive force or "beyond reasonable force" due to the heated mentality and nature of the crime and instant it happens, as well as the moments after. That said, if I were to shoot someone *after* he no longer became an immediate threat to me or my loved ones, I would also be committing a criminal act.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-27 17:00:42  
Bloodrose said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
I don't believe in placing others lives and wellbeing on an equal or greater level to my own or others though
That's the point. You do have the right to defend your life or that of someone else who is in danger. You don't have the right to execute arbitrary punishment when that isn't the case anymore.

What are you talking about? I've seen enough movies to know exactly how it works in Italy. If you find out that Cousin Giovanni is a snitch, you are legally obligated to shoot him with a Tommy Gun.
That's "Little Italy", in the Bronx.

What? They kill people all willy-nilly in the Bronx, but not in Italy? I don't trust you. I'm going to have to do some serious research on this.

*Downloads a copy of Goodfellas*
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 17:01:53  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
I don't believe in placing others lives and wellbeing on an equal or greater level to my own or others though
That's the point. You do have the right to defend your life or that of someone else who is in danger. You don't have the right to execute arbitrary punishment when that isn't the case anymore.

What are you talking about? I've seen enough movies to know exactly how it works in Italy. If you find out that Cousin Giovanni is a snitch, you are legally obligated to shoot him with a Tommy Gun.
That's "Little Italy", in the Bronx.

What? They kill people all willy-nilly in the Bronx, but not in Italy? I don't trust you. I'm going to have to do some serious research on this.

*Downloads a copy of Goodfellas*
I'd loan you my blu ray copy... but you ain't a Goodfella.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-27 17:04:04  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Oddly guns are a topic of discussion in Italy too these days, cause there have been two cases close in time of burglars getting shot to death by the home owners.

In one case the burglar had gathered the loot and was running on the street and the person shot him in the back. That's not self defense, that's vengeance.

In another case, more controversial, the burglar was on the stairs of the building but hadn't break in yet, nor was he armed, but the person shot him in the chest without warnings. That's not self defense either.
As much as I am anti-gun. I don't feel bad for either of those individuals.

Crimes were stopped.
The first one in particular just can't be defended to me. The thief was on the run already and he then grabbed a shotgun and shot him in the back, how is that acceptable?
It is quite acceptable in several US states. I don't know how many but Texas and Louisiana are among them. Washington state isn't.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-10-27 17:06:08  
Had my house and cabin broken into several times but I definitely don't think death or even a several year prison sentence is fitting for such a crime
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-10-27 17:06:54  
THIS IS AMERICA.

Marijuana possession should be a capital offense. Unless you're a celebrity.
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 17:07:56  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
THIS IS AMERICA.

Marijuana possession should be a capital offense. Unless you're a celebrity.
Or a politician, or anyone with a healthy amount of money.
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 17:11:11  
Also, any time Fonewear is mentioned in PnR, we should give it a law of it's own.

I suggest "Bloodwin'd"
 
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 17:20:28  
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Even if someone has raped your partner you can't just run after them and beat them to death, that's also murder though I would cheer the guy on for doing that

How can you condone the action yet use the word that sends them to prison?
Because what he is getting at is the legality of it, and how he feels about the situation.

Two completely different things, yet not entirely separated from each other in reality.

Would I also cheer on what the guy did? of course, but I can recognize excessive force or "beyond reasonable force" due to the heated mentality and nature of the crime and instant it happens, as well as the moments after. That said, if I were to shoot someone *after* he no longer became an immediate threat to me or my loved ones, I would also be committing a criminal act.

Then don't cheer.
Clearly not getting it, so we'll drop it.
 
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-27 17:31:01  
Jassik said: »
When the far right runs on about "taking their country" back, nobody tells them to move to north korea. It's just plain disregard for the will of the people. As long as you are working within our system of government, you should never be told to move somewhere else, period.

You sound like a dad telling his gay son to be straight or get out.

first of all, you can change your mind about gun control not being gay.
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By Jassik 2015-10-27 17:34:17  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Jassik said: »
When the far right runs on about "taking their country" back, nobody tells them to move to north korea. It's just plain disregard for the will of the people. As long as you are working within our system of government, you should never be told to move somewhere else, period.

You sound like a dad telling his gay son to be straight or get out.

first of all, you can change your mind about gun control not being gay.

Yeah, that makes the whole "get out if you don't like everything as it is" argument totally fine.
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 17:37:04  
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.
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By Jassik 2015-10-27 17:39:57  
Bloodrose said: »
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.

It's not really about whether or not he's serious. That idea gets thrown around a lot and it pisses me off to no end.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-27 17:56:56  
Jassik said: »
Bloodrose said: »
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.

It's not really about whether or not he's serious. That idea gets thrown around a lot and it pisses me off to no end.

Awwww. Does somebody need a hug? Bring it in.
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-27 18:02:38  
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Jassik said: »
Bloodrose said: »
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.

It's not really about whether or not he's serious. That idea gets thrown around a lot and it pisses me off to no end.

Awwww. Does somebody need a hug? Bring it in.

No, just no.

Back off. We need this.
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-27 18:02:41  
What if we gave people hugs, instead of guns?!

"Tonight on CNN, a serial Hugging has been committed, and the perpetrator has been placed under arrest"
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 19:37:55  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'll ask questions in response to what I think are ridiculous opinions and statements to further clarify the position being stated, but I rarely if ever pretend someone said something they never said.

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Name 1 candidate who isn't a liar Nausi.

"They all lie, therefore when Hilary lies, I don't have to care."

Hilary 2016

This is the very definition of a "low information voter".

That was just what I remember from yesterday, I'm sure you do a ton daily.

The argument was that Hilary lies and you shouldn't vote for her because of that.

You responded by rationalizing that all politicians lie did you not?

I paraphrased your statement and called you a low information voter in response.

This would only be a strawman if you weren't saying all politicians lie as a way to rationalize Hilary's lying.

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Ultimately, the only position she cannot morph into-out of is that she is indeed a woman. This oddly enough is her only qualifier for running for office. She's a liar above everything else, so you really cannot vote for her based on any position she's taken

This ultimately means her supporters are entirely sexist. They want a woman in the white house and they don't care about anything else but that

You claimed everyone who would vote for Hilary is a sexist because she's a liar. That was the argument.
To which you responded "name one candidate who isn't a liar." What did you mean if not that every politician is a liar and therefore no different from Hilary?
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-27 19:46:43  
Bloodrose said: »
Also, any time Fonewear is mentioned in PnR, we should give it a law of it's own.

I suggest "Bloodwin'd"
Wait. What happened to Fone? I haven't seen a Fone post in days.

Bloodrose said: »
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.
Isn't he always seriously facetious? Or facetiously serious?

Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Awwww. Does somebody need a hug? Bring it in.
Not from you but thanks anyway.

Bloodrose said: »
What if we gave people hugs, instead of guns?!

"Tonight on CNN, a serial Hugging has been committed, and the perpetrator has been placed under arrest"
You do realize that in the USA that could happen but not make headlines.
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By Jassik 2015-10-27 20:01:48  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Jassik said: »
Bloodrose said: »
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.

It's not really about whether or not he's serious. That idea gets thrown around a lot and it pisses me off to no end.

Awwww. Does somebody need a hug? Bring it in.

No, just no.

Back off. We need this.
I'm not much of a hugger in general, but you made me chuckle. Well done.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-27 22:01:51  
Bloodrose said: »
I'm surprised you of all people happen to be taking Nikolce seriously. Even when none of us have a clue when he's being serious, or seriously facetious.

think of it this way, if I lived in russia and my son was gay then hell yes I would advise him to move rather than try to make russia accept him....

in the same way, this is america and we love guns.

it would be way easier for a couple of bleeding heart knee jerk crocodile tear opportunists to move to canada than shred the second amendment any further

you're all still young.... and full of energy...you think you have the power to change things...and that's great... just keep charging up that old hill.

but do it quietly we're trying to get a nap in!!!

you'll see... soon enough. you'll get old and then the world will keep changing too fast and you'll be all cranky and bitter and you'll look down towards hell and curse me for being right all along.

and I will flip you off and tell you to suck it and then I'll laugh.....
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-28 11:54:15  
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
How can you condone the action yet use the word that sends them to prison?
Because, as many people around here like to word it, you can't apply the law with feels.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-10-28 12:02:23  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Jassik said: »
When the far right runs on about "taking their country" back, nobody tells them to move to north korea. It's just plain disregard for the will of the people. As long as you are working within our system of government, you should never be told to move somewhere else, period.

You sound like a dad telling his gay son to be straight or get out.

first of all, you can change your mind about gun control not being gay.
Nope! Went to an anti-gun protest once and all I could think about was how some ammo and gun barrels are sort-of phallic.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-28 12:21:46  
I know gay people that were straight before they became anti-gun. It's well documented.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-28 12:27:27  
The Official GOP Debate Drinking Game Rules, Pt. 3
Rolling Stone, and they know a thing or two about drinking.

Just the rules, not the full article:

Quote:
DRINK EVERY TIME:

1. Donald Trump brags about how much money he makes.

2. Trump uses the words "disaster," "loser" or "head spin."

3. Trump says he "loves" somebody or thinks he/she is a "wonderful person," before ripping him/her for being a loser or a disaster or whatever.

4. Trump rips another candidate's poll numbers. Make it a double if he tweaks Jeb about cutting the pay of his staffers. Add a beer chaser if Trump doubles down and talks about how well, in contrast, he pays his people.

5. Anyone references how Hillary "lied before the committee."

6. A candidate proposes abolishing an utterly necessary branch of government, or a politically untouchable program like Medicare.

7. Jeb Bush refers to himself as "Veto Corleone," or insists that "Washington is the pejorative term, not Redskins." Drink as much as you can stomach if he actually uses either line.

8. Any candidate makes an awkward/craven pop-culture reference, including references to Peyton Manning or the Broncos.

9. Any candidate illustrates the virtue of one of his/her positions by pointing out how not PC it is.

10. Any candidate compares anything that isn't slavery to slavery. A double if it's Ben Carson.

11. Any candidate evokes Nazis, the Gestapo, Neville Chamberlain, concentration camps, etc. Again, a double if it's Ben Carson, who has been amping up the slavery/Holocaust imagery lately.

12. Carson cites the Bible as authority for complex policy questions.

13. Any candidate righteously claims he/she would never have compromised on the debt ceiling thing. You may drink more if you feel sure enough that the person is lying.

14. Carly Fiorina whips out a number that is debunked by Politifact or some other reputable fact-checking service before the end of the night. (Example: the 307,000 veterans who supposedly died last year because of Barack Obama's inept management of the VA.) Actually, drink if any candidate does this.

15. A low-polling candidate makes a wild and outrageous statement in a transparent attempt to revive his or her campaign. Huckabee calling for summary bludgeonings of immigrants would be an example.

16. A candidate complains about not getting enough time. This evergreen drinking game concept is henceforth known as the "Jim Webb rule."

17. The audience bursts into uncomfortable applause at a racist/sexist statement.

DRINK THE FIRST TIME AND THE FIRST TIME ONLY:

18. A candidate evokes St. Reagan.

DRINK EVERY TIME YOU HEAR:

19. "Selling baby parts"

20. "White Lives Matter" or "All Lives Matter"

21. "Ferguson Effect"

22. "I'm the only candidate on this stage who…"

23. George Bush/My brother "kept us safe"

24. "Shining city on a hill"

TAKE A SHOT OF JAGER IF:

25. Anyone references a biblical justification for gun ownership, or insists an infamous historical tragedy would have been prevented if more people had been armed.

The following rules are optional, for the truly hardcore.

BONUS SHOTS IF:

Ted Cruz mentions his wife's baking skills without mentioning she worked for Goldman Sachs.
Rand Paul mentions the Constitution, the Framers or the founders before he mentions his children.
Someone makes a quiet car joke at Christie's expense.
Fiorina mentions being a secretary or having a husband who drove a tow truck.
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By Jetackuu 2015-10-28 12:34:31  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Oddly guns are a topic of discussion in Italy too these days, cause there have been two cases close in time of burglars getting shot to death by the home owners.

In one case the burglar had gathered the loot and was running on the street and the person shot him in the back. That's not self defense, that's vengeance.

In another case, more controversial, the burglar was on the stairs of the building but hadn't break in yet, nor was he armed, but the person shot him in the chest without warnings. That's not self defense either.

There's this concept here known as defense of self or property.

The one could fall into both categories (as you don't need a weapon to do harm) the other would just fall into the property category.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-10-28 12:56:47  
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Oddly guns are a topic of discussion in Italy too these days, cause there have been two cases close in time of burglars getting shot to death by the home owners.

In one case the burglar had gathered the loot and was running on the street and the person shot him in the back. That's not self defense, that's vengeance.

In another case, more controversial, the burglar was on the stairs of the building but hadn't break in yet, nor was he armed, but the person shot him in the chest without warnings. That's not self defense either.

There's this concept here known as defense of self or property.

The one could fall into both categories (as you don't need a weapon to do harm) the other would just fall into the property category.
I'd agree with her though. The first one could be argued as defense of property but in many cases the defense of self thing carries a lot more weight than defense of property. It could be argued that if a guy stole your TV, you aren't going to die from not having a TV but if you catch him stealing your TV and he pulls a weapon on you, you should be able to defend yourself.

On the second, shooting a man who had yet to commit a crime is like throwing someone in jail over a thought-crime. Hell, someone could argue that they were about to knock on the door or something when they were shot if they lived. So she's right; neither are self-defense.
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By Jetackuu 2015-10-28 13:09:21  
Eh, I have no issue with dealing with criminals who are about to commit a crime if it's reasonably deduced as such, but I will concede that it's iffy. I detest the concept of thought crimes, so let's not even go there.


As for property: I don't know about there but there's a lot of places in the US where you're allowed to protect your property with lethal force. I can understand the concept, not really saying if I agree with it or not yet.
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