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Random Politics & Religion #00
 Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:34:59
You repackaged his "lunacy" into an argument that was far more extreme. That's par for the course around here, though. If you can't handle the actual argument, make sure to repackage it into something even crazier.
The actual argument was addressed directly in my previous post. We can't have an actual conversation about guns in this country because nobody on the "guns are awesome" side will admit that they are just a thing that exists. You constantly defend every moronic raving of anyone who spouts out GOP taglines without any critical analysis. It's exactly the thing you claim you don't do and scold others for doing. It's like exponential hypocrisy.
Finally! after hours of attempts at distraction we're back on the topic at hand (sort of).
Welcome back.
You're positing that a conversation can only occur if your opponents give up their opinions. That isn't a discussion at all, it's intolerant liberal BS.
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:36:44
Besides access to a gun, of course. You've figured out the problem with the measured insight of a six year old. Congrats!
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By Jassik 2015-10-27 15:38:43
You repackaged his "lunacy" into an argument that was far more extreme. That's par for the course around here, though. If you can't handle the actual argument, make sure to repackage it into something even crazier.
The actual argument was addressed directly in my previous post. We can't have an actual conversation about guns in this country because nobody on the "guns are awesome" side will admit that they are just a thing that exists. You constantly defend every moronic raving of anyone who spouts out GOP taglines without any critical analysis. It's exactly the thing you claim you don't do and scold others for doing. It's like exponential hypocrisy.
Finally! after hours of attempts at distraction we're back on the topic at hand (sort of).
Welcome back.
You're positing that a conversation can only occur if your opponents give up their opinions. That isn't a discussion at all, it's a intolerant liberal BS.
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated, you're a lost cause. And if your only idea is to treat anyone with a mental illness as a criminal just so you don't have to undergo any scrutiny when trying to obtain your 45th high powered rifle, you're the problem.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-27 15:38:52
Well, just about everyone agrees that we need to do something about the way mentally ill people are treated, but somehow blaming guns is just easier.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-27 15:40:32
Well only one is good though.
edit: oh i didn't refresh the page
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:41:59
You repackaged his "lunacy" into an argument that was far more extreme. That's par for the course around here, though. If you can't handle the actual argument, make sure to repackage it into something even crazier.
The actual argument was addressed directly in my previous post. We can't have an actual conversation about guns in this country because nobody on the "guns are awesome" side will admit that they are just a thing that exists. You constantly defend every moronic raving of anyone who spouts out GOP taglines without any critical analysis. It's exactly the thing you claim you don't do and scold others for doing. It's like exponential hypocrisy.
Finally! after hours of attempts at distraction we're back on the topic at hand (sort of).
Welcome back.
You're positing that a conversation can only occur if your opponents give up their opinions. That isn't a discussion at all, it's a intolerant liberal BS.
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated, you're a lost cause. And if your only idea is to treat anyone with a mental illness as a criminal just so you don't have to undergo any scrutiny when trying to obtain your 45th high powered rifle, you're the problem.
Neither of those are my opinions. Did I state otherwise?
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Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-27 15:42:02
If I made some kind of pun I don't even realize it tbh.
By Jassik 2015-10-27 15:42:16
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Well, just about everyone agrees that we need to do something about the way mentally ill people are treated, but somehow blaming guns is just easier.
Gooooooood thing they are two separate issues until the issue is how the mentally ill get access to guns!
Ignoring the fact that most of the people who've committed mass shootings weren't actually mentally ill by any metric we have, I'm sure we can consider agoraphobics high risk for mass murder.
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-27 15:42:43
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation.
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:44:56
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation. He's strawmanning again, although he has worded this version to barely be at the line of trigger.
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By Jassik 2015-10-27 15:45:26
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation.
Maybe I'm understanding what the "regulation" that's ok is? I'm being buried under a mountain of logical fallacies. And I'm not even taking the whole "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" BS literally.
You don't want any restriction that doesn't strip more fundamental human rights from other people. So regulation of OTHER people is fine?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-27 15:46:09
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation. He's strawmanning again, although this version is barely at the triggering line.
We were just talking about how they do that, and they continued to do it anyway. No self-awareness at all with this group.
Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-27 15:47:54
Oddly guns are a topic of discussion in Italy too these days, cause there have been two cases close in time of burglars getting shot to death by the home owners.
In one case the burglar had gathered the loot and was running on the street and the person shot him in the back. That's not self defense, that's vengeance.
In another case, more controversial, the burglar was on the stairs of the building but hadn't break in yet, nor was he armed, but the person shot him in the chest without warnings. That's not self defense either.
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:48:05
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation. He's strawmanning again, although this version is barely at the triggering line.
We were just talking about how they do that, and they continued to do it anyway. No self-awareness at all with this group.
Yeah, I'm not really sure if Jassik is incapable of the insight or he just wants to watch the world P&R burn.
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-27 15:50:35
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation.
Maybe I'm understanding what the "regulation" that's ok is? I'm being buried under a mountain of logical fallacies. And I'm not even taking the whole "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" BS literally.
You don't want any restriction that doesn't strip more fundamental human rights from other people. So regulation of OTHER people is fine?
Regulation of criminals and those with a high risk for violence? Uh, yes. That... shouldn't be too hard to grasp.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:53:18
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation.
Maybe I'm understanding what the "regulation" that's ok is? I'm being buried under a mountain of logical fallacies. And I'm not even taking the whole "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" BS literally.
You don't want any restriction that doesn't strip more fundamental human rights from other people. So regulation of OTHER people is fine?
Regulation of criminals and those with a high risk for violence? Uh, yes. That... shouldn't be too hard to grasp.
Perhaps we should stop declaring areas that are prone to mass shooting as "gun free zones". Can we try that before we flip off the handle and further piss on the constitution?
Why do you think they're so opposed to that?
By Jassik 2015-10-27 15:53:52
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation. He's strawmanning again, although this version is barely at the triggering line.
We were just talking about how they do that, and they continued to do it anyway. No self-awareness at all with this group.
Yeah, I'm not really sure if Jassik is incapable of the insight or he just wants to watch the world P&R burn.
I'm quite capable of insight, I'm trying to strip away the *** posturing and either talk about the issue in an honest way or move on to some other stupid discussion.
And, if you think I want P&R gone, you're very wrong. The site staff universally don't want P&R to go anywhere. As soon as the possibility was even mentioned, you and another poster have taken almost every opportunity to accuse others of trying to burn it down, it's shameful.
Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-27 15:55:00
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Oddly guns are a topic of discussion in Italy too these days, cause there have been two cases close in time of burglars getting shot to death by the home owners.
In one case the burglar had gathered the loot and was running on the street and the person shot him in the back. That's not self defense, that's vengeance.
In another case, more controversial, the burglar was on the stairs of the building but hadn't break in yet, nor was he armed, but the person shot him in the chest without warnings. That's not self defense either.
As much as I am anti-gun. I don't feel bad for either of those individuals.
Crimes were stopped. The first one in particular just can't be defended to me. The thief was on the run already and he then grabbed a shotgun and shot him in the back, how is that acceptable?
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-27 15:57:13
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation. He's strawmanning again, although this version is barely at the triggering line.
We were just talking about how they do that, and they continued to do it anyway. No self-awareness at all with this group.
Yeah, I'm not really sure if Jassik is incapable of the insight or he just wants to watch the world P&R burn.
I'm quite capable of insight, I'm trying to strip away the *** posturing and either talk about the issue in an honest way or move on to some other stupid discussion.
And, if you think I want P&R gone, you're very wrong. The site staff universally don't want P&R to go anywhere. As soon as the possibility was even mentioned, you and another poster have taken almost every opportunity to accuse others of trying to burn it down, it's shameful.
I don't think you want P&R gone. That wasn't what I meant. I meant you occasionally like turning it into argumentative chaos and watching the chaos.
Straw-manning doesn't strip away the BS, it creates more of it.
themoreyouknow.jpg
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By Jassik 2015-10-27 15:59:04
If your opinion is there are no disadvantages to guns being completely unregulated
Again, where the frick is he actually saying that? You're proving his point by changing his argument into something more extreme.
Low regulation is not the same thing as complete unregulation.
Maybe I'm understanding what the "regulation" that's ok is? I'm being buried under a mountain of logical fallacies. And I'm not even taking the whole "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" BS literally.
You don't want any restriction that doesn't strip more fundamental human rights from other people. So regulation of OTHER people is fine?
Regulation of criminals and those with a high risk for violence? Uh, yes. That... shouldn't be too hard to grasp.
It's not hard to grasp, it's impossible. A lot of the perpetrators exhibited either no signs or nothing actionable. What's more, of the people who exhibit any signs of violent behavior, only a very small fraction ever commit any violent crime. Add on that damn near everyone could be shown to exhibit some or most of the same signs if observed with any scrutiny and you're basically talking about half the country if not more. Not only that, but who is going to pay for the literal army of psychologists and submit themselves and everyone in the country to extensive mental health screening?
It's Orwellian levels of oversight and control and you believe it's preferable to limiting access to guns or holding gun owners liable for crimes committed with their weapons? Is that what freedom looks like to you?
Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-27 15:59:46
Life is considered more valuable than property pretty much everywhere. And he is a civilian so he cannot make justice by himself in his own way, he should have aimed to his legs if anything.
You want justice you call authorities, you aren't Batman.
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