U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds

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U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds
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 Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-05-09 10:28:31  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Or Texas!

/sheds a tear for Lake Travis

Why haven't we had a damn flood since the late 1990's? The Colorado River valley used to be consistent.

I blame Bush KN!

Australia has had plenty of floods in recent years, you should probably blame them.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-05-09 10:29:31  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
To the extent that it is happening, there is little that we can do to stop it. The climate just isn't sensitive enough to co2 to be able to largely deviate from any natural cycle. People would pretty much need to stop burning everything but wood (maybe even wood) as a fuel source to stop any increase.
Wait what? You claim that CO2 can't really cause large deviations in cycles, but then claim that stopping CO2 production from non-renewable would stop any increase?
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-09 10:32:53  
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
I'll point out that every scientist who has ever spoken out against Global Warming, a group representing 8% of the community, has been traced directly back to Koch Industries.

This Waltz sounds a lot like the tune danced to during the Leaded Gasoline fight back in 50's-60's.

But then again, history only repeats itself if you ignore it right?

So your totally okay with the massive data discrepancy just because some article blames the koch brothers?

Mark Twain — History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Of course I'm not okay with the data discrepancy, I believe that the data is insufficient. Unfortunately, by the time we have an effective sample size it may be too late.

I'm also not blind to the fact that some "Green Energy" Companies are making a killing off of the "Global Warming" panic machine.

But here's some food for thought; What's more likely, that 92% of the scientific community is in on the world's largest conspiracy ever devised, or that a small group of massively wealthy billionaires are attempting to protect their industry?
It just makes more sense to me to put more energy efficient things in my home, even at a greater cost, just to save energy costs. As quite frankly there's a very large waste of energy problem. The main issue is building going to the lowest bidder, and people liking convenience over efficiency. But that is much harder to address than the other factors.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-09 10:38:27  
Jetackuu said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
I'll point out that every scientist who has ever spoken out against Global Warming, a group representing 8% of the community, has been traced directly back to Koch Industries.

This Waltz sounds a lot like the tune danced to during the Leaded Gasoline fight back in 50's-60's.

But then again, history only repeats itself if you ignore it right?

So your totally okay with the massive data discrepancy just because some article blames the koch brothers?

Mark Twain — History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Of course I'm not okay with the data discrepancy, I believe that the data is insufficient. Unfortunately, by the time we have an effective sample size it may be too late.

I'm also not blind to the fact that some "Green Energy" Companies are making a killing off of the "Global Warming" panic machine.

But here's some food for thought; What's more likely, that 92% of the scientific community is in on the world's largest conspiracy ever devised, or that a small group of massively wealthy billionaires are attempting to protect their industry?
It just makes more sense to me to put more energy efficient things in my home, even at a greater cost, just to save energy costs. As quite frankly there's a very large waste of energy problem. The main issue is building going to the lowest bidder, and people liking convenience over efficiency. But that is much harder to address than the other factors.
While the initial one time cost of paying, say, 3 dollars extra for a pack of energy efficient light bulbs may not seem like a good idea to the frugal, that extra 3 dollar cost could easily save 10x that amount of the course of it's lifetime, and may also reduce the number of bulbs needing to be purchased when they burn out at a higher rate than the energy efficient kind.

although, it's been estimated that in the natural course of a fluorescent lightbulb, which is harmful to the human eye, and the natural course of an energy efficient light bulb, the EE bulb tends to last almost 10x longer, on less power, and provides better lighting. So you're already saving more than 10x the entire cost within the first few months, and some EE can last for years.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-05-09 10:40:15  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Why haven't we had a damn flood since the late 1990's?
You forget 2002.

We had 2 "flood of the century" floods in a 4 year timespan. One in October of 1998, one in July of 2002.

But I guess some people would say that it was manmade floods....

I forgot which one almost swept away that animal sanctuary.

The Edwards Aquifer is at an all time low too.
Is it? I haven't checked the SA news since college -.-

I don't have time for that ***anymore....
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-05-09 10:40:15  
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
To the extent that it is happening, there is little that we can do to stop it. The climate just isn't sensitive enough to co2 to be able to largely deviate from any natural cycle. People would pretty much need to stop burning everything but wood (maybe even wood) as a fuel source to stop any increase.
Wait what? You claim that CO2 can't really cause large deviations in cycles, but then claim that stopping CO2 production from non-renewable would stop any increase?
No I claim that the climate isn't very sensitive to co2. So reducing our lifestyles to a medieval one is just asinine as it will make no difference.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-05-09 10:40:34  
Unplug your computers you hypocrites!

Unless it's currently being powered by you running in a giant hamster wheel shut it off, or shut your yap about global warming.

Go walk around in a hemp robe to raise awareness.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-05-09 10:41:01  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
So reducing our lifestyles to a medieval one is just asinine as it will make no difference.
Changing it to a medieval one is their goal, don't forget.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-05-09 10:41:25  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Unplug your computers you hypocrites!

Unless it's currently being powered by you running in a giant hamster wheel shut it off, or shut your yap about global warming.

Go walk around in a hemp robe to raise awareness.
So you get high while you bake?
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-09 10:41:55  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Unplug your computers you hypocrites!

Unless it's currently being powered by you running in a giant hamster wheel shut it off, or shut your yap about global warming.

Go walk around in a hemp robe to raise awareness.
Last time I walked around in a hemp robe, people thought I was the second coming of Jesus. Then they gathered 'round to smoke my robe, and realized I was just some guy with a beard.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-05-09 10:48:22  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Changing it to a medieval one is their goal, don't forget.

idk man...those goddamned new lightbulbs take like twenty minutes to warm up enough you can see to not fall down the stairs...

might as well be earwax candles....
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-05-09 10:48:28  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
To the extent that it is happening, there is little that we can do to stop it. The climate just isn't sensitive enough to co2 to be able to largely deviate from any natural cycle. People would pretty much need to stop burning everything but wood (maybe even wood) as a fuel source to stop any increase.

Besides the globe would be better and capable of more human prosperity if it were a few degrees warmer. Think of all the extra food we could grow.
We would also lose a lot of prospective food sources as well due to everything that comes with climate change.
Nah, we can grow food pretty much everywhere it isn't cold
Oh? I have some property out on the desert in which I would like to sell you that you can grow all this food on :)
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-05-09 10:51:17  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Changing it to a medieval one is their goal, don't forget.
idk man...those goddamned new lightbulbs take like twenty minutes to warm up enough you can see to not fall down the stairs... might as well be earwax candles....

I gag every time that episode of Mythbusters is shown.

And I don't get grossed out easily.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-05-09 10:51:49  
Growing food in the desert: is this the solution to the world's food crisis?

Much easier to bring water into someplace its not than heat someplace that's cold.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-09 11:14:34  
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
While the initial one time cost of paying, say, 3 dollars extra for a pack of energy efficient light bulbs may not seem like a good idea to the frugal, that extra 3 dollar cost could easily save 10x that amount of the course of it's lifetime, and may also reduce the number of bulbs needing to be purchased when they burn out at a higher rate than the energy efficient kind.

although, it's been estimated that in the natural course of a fluorescent lightbulb, which is harmful to the human eye, and the natural course of an energy efficient light bulb, the EE bulb tends to last almost 10x longer, on less power, and provides better lighting. So you're already saving more than 10x the entire cost within the first few months, and some EE can last for years.
I prefer LED lighting myself, but I realize that some models are purposely designed to fail and they aren't cheap (even though they should be).

I've been debating on getting some broken bulbs, and modifying them for my own use. I guess I should just stop throwing out the old bulbs when they break and take them apart and use the bottom, and just either have open LED's or get a cheap plastic cover.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-05-09 11:19:01  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Growing food in the desert: is this the solution to the world's food crisis?

Much easier to bring water into someplace its not than heat someplace that's cold.
I'll sell you some ocean front property in AZ.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-05-09 11:22:49  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Much easier to bring water into someplace its not than heat someplace that's cold.

we're depleting aquifers irrigating mildly dry areas (in the USA), let alone deserts. that's a bad idea.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-05-09 11:29:47  
I heard CA's been having a rough go for the past few months.

But hey! It's just CA and TX, right? Pfft...They're just two states with large economies. Who needs them?
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-05-09 11:35:18  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
I heard CA's been having a rough go for the past few months decades.

They've been siphoning water from other states for what feels like forever.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-05-09 11:38:20  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Growing food in the desert: is this the solution to the world's food crisis?

Much easier to bring water into someplace its not than heat someplace that's cold.
That's actually a really interesting article. Did you read it?

I was a little disapointed that they didn't seem to mention the scale of the project, just that it was by the tonne.

They also didn't address the costs or issues that would be associated with getting the water to harder to reach desert areas as they are all not as close to bodies of water.

Something interesting to keep an eye on for the future though... mass production via hydroponics.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-05-09 11:38:36  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
I heard CA's been having a rough go for the past few months decades.

They've been siphoning water from other states for what feels like forever.

TY. Just referring to the recent drought, but you're right.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-05-09 11:40:39  
Siren.Mosin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Much easier to bring water into someplace its not than heat someplace that's cold.

we're depleting aquifers irrigating mildly dry areas (in the USA), let alone deserts. that's a bad idea.
The interesting thing about the process shown in this article though is that it will use Sea Water and not fresh water so it will not deplete the supply of fresh water and in fact might free up some if it becomes something that can be put to practice all over the world.

Edit: one of the disapointing things for the mastermind behind the tech is that it ended up not being 100% energy free as some nights it would still get too cold and a generator would have to be turned on.
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-05-09 11:44:50  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sea Water

I didn't think desalination has been made cheap or easy yet, if so, huzzah!
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-09 11:53:34  
I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the most basic piece of information here*. Some concepts are more clear when put in a relative context. If dry numbers are your thing, then here. Same numbers over the same time frame laid out as nakedly as possible. The most recent values are bigger than the earlier values. Same message but communicated in a different way.

*Actually, I do know, but whatevs.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-05-09 11:56:20  
Siren.Mosin said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sea Water

I didn't think desalination has been made cheap or easy yet, if so, huzzah!
It does say in the article that this is a cheap way of growing crops but it does not really go into costs of throwing it all together, maintaining or even the output.

Here is a breif quote from the article on how it works:
Quote:
A 75m line of motorised parabolic mirrors that follow the sun all day focuses its heat on a pipe containing a sealed-in supply of oil. The hot oil in turn heats nearby tanks of seawater pumped up from a few metres below ground – the shore is only 100m away. The oil brings the seawater up to 160C and steam from this drives turbines providing electricity. Some of the hot water from the process heats the greenhouse through the cold desert nights, while the rest is fed into a desalination plant that produces the 10,000 litres of fresh water a day needed to keep the plants happy. The water the grower gets is pure and ready for the perfect mix of nutrients to be added. The air in the greenhouse is kept humid and cool by trickling water over a wall of honeycombed cardboard evaporative pads through which air is driven by wind and fans. The system is hi-tech all the way; the greenhouse is in a remote spot, but the grower, a hyper-enthusiastic 27-year-old Canadian, Dave Pratt, can rather delightfully control all the growing conditions for his tonnes of crops from an iPhone app if he's out on the town – or even home in Ontario.

One of the things about this set up is it's proximity to the water as well.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-05-09 12:01:03  
Oh my God, Nausi posted something intelligent that I actually learned from having processed.



What I was wondering is how much gas the boilers need to keep the crops warm at night and how much that eats into the sustainability. Sure, it's a shortcut (using solar panels would cost more to profit) but how ecologically damaging is it? Does the closed system mean net ecological gains? Not using freshwater is a huge boon but if you're burning a ton of natural gas are you just shifting around the pollution?
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-05-09 12:15:24  
As I understand it not that much. It's not something that happens every night if I read the article correctly but only those nights that the temperature dips too far down. It's more of a back up than a regular function of the process.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-05-09 12:39:02  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the most basic piece of information here*.
*Actually, I do know, but whatevs.

Dude, I have Deathwish II nail board boobytraps under my windows with screws in them to trap and maim intruders. The odds of getting anything through to me (and my ilk) are so astronomical they aren't even worth considering... unless you are good with infinity and imaginary numbers.

Everyone you could have ever even possibly convinced was on your side from the jump... take their support and run with it!!!.... Before they fall victim to some unfortunate boobytrap incident trying to steal my VCR.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-05-09 12:47:52  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Unplug your computers you hypocrites!

Unless it's currently being powered by you running in a giant hamster wheel shut it off, or shut your yap about global warming.
Is it bad that I'd seriously consider hooking my computer up to my bike in a generator stand (assuming such a thing exists) in order to operate it? It'd make playing keyboard-intensive games hard, but otherwise should be fine.

I may have a problem in regards to bikes, though. I was watching a video highlighting hot guys who happened to be on bikes and I paused and backed up in order to look more closely at the bikes (and snobbily dismiss them, of course).

Anyhow, I've got a double-century to get ready for.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-05-09 12:54:58  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Is it bad that I'd seriously consider hooking my computer up to my bike in a generator stand (assuming such a thing exists) in order to operate it?

Not to me....

But I want to build a power plant made of giant hamster wheel generators and force poor people to walk in them eight hours a day to get government assistance...

mu to the haha with a hahaha and then a thunderclap boom
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