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Mississippi passes "Right to Discriminate" bill...
 Bahamut.Ravael
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-02 21:02:43
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »So where in religious text, for this case the bible, does it say to discriminate against others? Genuinely don't know and am asking those who may have actually read it. Mostly the Old Testament. But a lot of the discrimination that God was cool with in the Old Testament were made taboo once their Savior, Jesus, did his thing.
So basically any 'Christian' who's a bigot doesn't believe Jesus died for their Salvation. And basically aren't actually Christians. And damning themselves. Not really, he didn't repeal the old laws... Not directly, but almost all of his teaching were contradictory of the old ones. His were meant to be given higher priority/nullify the older, from what I interpreted. I guess it depends on how you interpret Matthew 5:18 Matthew 5:18 (KJV) -
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Now look at the previous verse.
Matthew 5:17 (KJV) -
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The common belief is that Christ fulfilled the old law, hence the reason Christians typically do not follow the Mosaic law like the Jews do. Depends on if you believe he fulfilled it, or if he will when he resurrects, honestly from the wording of the NUMEROUS translations, it's the best conclusion.
I've seen the numerous translations. It's quite clear that Jesus had no intention of perpetuating the Law of Moses. The whole thing was put into place because the Israelites screwed up and couldn't handle a higher law.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 21:02:54
Not really, he didn't repeal the old laws... Eh... that's less than clear. He said "I make a New Covenant," meaning the terms of the Old Covenant were considered void. By the same token, he was a practicing Jew and was emphatically not trying to create a new sect of Judaism.
Even his disciples were uncertain. For instance, some felt that his followers were Jewish converts and, as such, should be circumcised, whereas others felt they were a new religion and circumcision was inappropriate. Considering the opinion of the Church has been against circumcision as a religious ritual, it would seem the break from Judaism and the Old Covenant and Laws is canonical.
But it's oh-so-convenient to be able to mine Leviticus and Deuteronomy for cherry-picked commandments by which to judge in God's place. Because that's totally not the kind of hubris that Jesus denounced.
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By Raein Tilgung 2014-04-02 21:03:14
again assuming i am only referring to the bible and Christianity (mind you i don't support any of their beliefs i only respect their rights to have them) there are many religions in this world and if you wholeheartedly believed in one that said something was not right and then are forced by law to accept it just because you run a company is just wrong.
Why?
We force people all the time to not be cannibals, or do human/animal sacrifices, or run around the street in the nude, or have sex with prepubescent children, why should people be allowed to discriminate anymore more than any of the other *** people believe we don't allow?
Your sense of justice is very misplaced.
this is why
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
my point here is you have right but so do other people no matter how much you dont like them and ppl need to start respecting other peoples rights. Your rights only apply until they start infringing on the rights of another. Someone being denied the right to shop for food or clothing is vastly more important than your right to be a *** waffle whenever you please.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:04:24
ya w/e go ahead and continue to not tolerate religious beliefs that you don't like just because. i'm gonna go ahead and continue to respect others beliefs.
It has nothing to do with whether or not somebody likes it, personally I could go for some sacrifices or maybe even some cannibalism but they have no place in a civilized society and I'm adult enough to recognize and admit that.
So I'll ask again: what makes their belief better than these others that aren't allowed?
Not to mention the fact that we're not hindering anyone's beliefs, a business doesn't have beliefs.
The business =/= the owner.
サーバ: Fenrir
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Posts: 3344
By Fenrir.Weakness 2014-04-02 21:04:38
ya w/e go ahead and continue to not tolerate religious beliefs that you don't like just because. i'm gonna go ahead and continue to respect others beliefs.
PLEASE tell me you at least understand the irony of this statement after what you have said.
And before you lump me in with the others, I'm actually a very conservative libertarian. Most of these other guys don't like me and want to lump me with Nausi half the time.
Siren.Dokuu
サーバ: Siren
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Posts: 23
By Siren.Dokuu 2014-04-02 21:04:55
I then have the right to refuse serving highly religious tight ***, as I find them highly offensive and grotesquely vomit-inducing.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:06:47
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »So where in religious text, for this case the bible, does it say to discriminate against others? Genuinely don't know and am asking those who may have actually read it. Mostly the Old Testament. But a lot of the discrimination that God was cool with in the Old Testament were made taboo once their Savior, Jesus, did his thing.
So basically any 'Christian' who's a bigot doesn't believe Jesus died for their Salvation. And basically aren't actually Christians. And damning themselves. Not really, he didn't repeal the old laws... Not directly, but almost all of his teaching were contradictory of the old ones. His were meant to be given higher priority/nullify the older, from what I interpreted. I guess it depends on how you interpret Matthew 5:18 Matthew 5:18 (KJV) -
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Now look at the previous verse.
Matthew 5:17 (KJV) -
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The common belief is that Christ fulfilled the old law, hence the reason Christians typically do not follow the Mosaic law like the Jews do. Depends on if you believe he fulfilled it, or if he will when he resurrects, honestly from the wording of the NUMEROUS translations, it's the best conclusion.
I've seen the numerous translations. It's quite clear that Jesus had no intention of perpetuating the Law of Moses. The whole thing was put into place because the Israelites screwed up and couldn't handle a higher law.
I'd say the whole thing was put in place because a whole bunch of asshats in the desert wanted to rule over others and needed a central power to keep the masses in line, literally put the fear of god in them, etc.
It's all utter *** nonsense to me, but even if you read the ***, it's very subjective as to the meaning, especially since it's been translated a lot of times, and the original meanings have been long lost.
edit: don't get me wrong some of the dumb ***in there had it's place at one time: like the no pork thing, but it's time to move past it.
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Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 21:07:38
ya w/e go ahead and continue to not tolerate religious beliefs that you don't like just because. i'm gonna go ahead and continue to respect others beliefs. You cited the Bill of Rights. That explicitly says that religion has no place within the law.
And what's this "tolerance" and "respect" that you keep talking about? My opinion of religion should have no more impact on our ability to exchange goods/service for payment than should your opinion of sexuality. They're equally irrelevant and equally protected under the law.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:08:39
ya w/e go ahead and continue to not tolerate religious beliefs that you don't like just because. i'm gonna go ahead and continue to respect others beliefs.
PLEASE tell me you at least understand the irony of this statement after what you have said.
And before you lump me in with the others, I'm actually a very conservative libertarian. Most of these other guys don't like me and want to lump me with Nausi half the time.
I at least throw Nausi at least a partial bone, and don't even put you at his level, while he may be as bad as certain others at times, I at least don't find him to be trolling.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:10:12
Not really, he didn't repeal the old laws... Eh... that's less than clear. He said "I make a New Covenant," meaning the terms of the Old Covenant were considered void. By the same token, he was a practicing Jew and was emphatically not trying to create a new sect of Judaism.
Even his disciples were uncertain. For instance, some felt that his followers were Jewish converts and, as such, should be circumcised, whereas others felt they were a new religion and circumcision was inappropriate. Considering the opinion of the Church has been against circumcision as a religious ritual, it would seem the break from Judaism and the Old Covenant and Laws is canonical.
But it's oh-so-convenient to be able to mine Leviticus and Deuteronomy for cherry-picked commandments by which to judge in God's place. Because that's totally not the kind of hubris that Jesus denounced. Like I said, it's rather subjective and very dependent upon which translation you subscribe to, and how you want to interpret it.
On the subject of circumcision it should be banned below the age of cognitive choices.
Bahamut.Ravael
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-02 21:10:30
I'd say the whole thing was put in place because a whole bunch of asshats in the desert wanted to rule over others and needed a central power to keep the masses in line, literally put the fear of god in them, etc.
It's all utter *** nonsense to me, but even if you read the ***, it's very subjective as to the meaning, especially since it's been translated a lot of times, and the original meanings have been long lost.
edit: don't get me wrong some of the dumb ***in there had it's place at one time: like the no pork thing, but it's time to move past it.
I don't think it's nonsense, but you make some very good points. Namely the fact that a lot of the original meanings were lost due to translation and that it made sense in its time, hence the need for the new law.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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Posts: 4195
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-04-02 21:13:31
ya w/e go ahead and continue to not tolerate religious beliefs that you don't like just because. i'm gonna go ahead and continue to respect others beliefs. You can respect beliefs without infringing on other's rights.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:13:58
I'd say the whole thing was put in place because a whole bunch of asshats in the desert wanted to rule over others and needed a central power to keep the masses in line, literally put the fear of god in them, etc.
It's all utter *** nonsense to me, but even if you read the ***, it's very subjective as to the meaning, especially since it's been translated a lot of times, and the original meanings have been long lost.
edit: don't get me wrong some of the dumb ***in there had it's place at one time: like the no pork thing, but it's time to move past it.
I don't think it's nonsense, but you make some very good points. Namely the fact that a lot of the original meanings were lost due to translation and that it made sense in its time, hence the need for the new law. Even the "new law" has lost it's meaning over time.
My mother doesn't think that my friend's brother is banging a married woman twice his age, but it doesn't make it any less true, even when she's been shown the pictures of them together on facebook (obviously not them banging, but you get the idea). The truth is not dependent upon belief.
I think I'm just going to start practicing praying to Odin and Thor.
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-02 21:15:01
Just be grateful the Romans were tolerant of Christianity, otherwise we would all still be worshiping the Roman Gods.
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-02 21:16:30
I'd say the whole thing was put in place because a whole bunch of asshats in the desert wanted to rule over others and needed a central power to keep the masses in line, literally put the fear of god in them, etc.
It's all utter *** nonsense to me, but even if you read the ***, it's very subjective as to the meaning, especially since it's been translated a lot of times, and the original meanings have been long lost.
edit: don't get me wrong some of the dumb ***in there had it's place at one time: like the no pork thing, but it's time to move past it.
I don't think it's nonsense, but you make some very good points. Namely the fact that a lot of the original meanings were lost due to translation and that it made sense in its time, hence the need for the new law. Even the "new law" has lost it's meaning over time.
My mother doesn't think that my friend's brother is banging a married woman twice his age, but it doesn't make it any less true, even when she's been shown the pictures of them together on facebook (obviously not them banging, but you get the idea). The truth is not dependent upon belief.
I think I'm just going to start practicing praying to Odin and Thor.
I don't see how any of what you just said correlates, but if you end up in Valhalla imma be soooo jealous.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:17:26
I'd say the whole thing was put in place because a whole bunch of asshats in the desert wanted to rule over others and needed a central power to keep the masses in line, literally put the fear of god in them, etc.
It's all utter *** nonsense to me, but even if you read the ***, it's very subjective as to the meaning, especially since it's been translated a lot of times, and the original meanings have been long lost.
edit: don't get me wrong some of the dumb ***in there had it's place at one time: like the no pork thing, but it's time to move past it.
I don't think it's nonsense, but you make some very good points. Namely the fact that a lot of the original meanings were lost due to translation and that it made sense in its time, hence the need for the new law. Even the "new law" has lost it's meaning over time.
My mother doesn't think that my friend's brother is banging a married woman twice his age, but it doesn't make it any less true, even when she's been shown the pictures of them together on facebook (obviously not them banging, but you get the idea). The truth is not dependent upon belief.
I think I'm just going to start practicing praying to Odin and Thor.
I don't see how any of what you just said correlates, but if you end up in Valhalla imma be soooo jealous.
In reference to "I don't think"
Hail the allfather!
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-02 21:19:45
At least until he gets eaten by Fenrir. Norse mythology is rad, but so depressing.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:22:21
At least until he gets eaten by Fenrir. Norse mythology is rad, but so depressing. Damn I'm rusty...
I know more about Incan/Greek mythology...
I started taking a class on world religions several semesters back but the prof was an anti-technology guy and I'm sorry but I'm not going to take notes on paper anymore, I can type several times faster or just record it on my laptop... So I unfortunately dropped the class, but I've been meaning to read up more on my own though...
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サーバ: Shiva
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Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 21:22:34
Just be grateful the Romans were tolerant of Christianity, otherwise we would all still be worshiping the Roman Gods. Uh... is that a joke?
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Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-02 21:27:27
Just be grateful the Romans were tolerant of Christianity, otherwise we would all still be worshiping the Roman Gods. Uh... is that a joke? 
Tolerance in action ^
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 21:32:06
I started taking a class on world religions several semesters back but the prof was an anti-technology guy and I'm sorry but I'm not going to take notes on paper anymore, I can type several times faster or just record it on my laptop... People take notes? The only reason I bothered to bring a notebook to classes was to practice my kana and kanji writing or have something to doodle on. Did you not get the eidetic memory perk at character creation?
By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:35:52
I started taking a class on world religions several semesters back but the prof was an anti-technology guy and I'm sorry but I'm not going to take notes on paper anymore, I can type several times faster or just record it on my laptop... People take notes? The only reason I bothered to bring a notebook to classes was to practice my kana and kanji writing or have something to doodle on. Did you not get the eidetic memory perk at character creation? lolno, my memory is horrible and I'm a terrible student, hell he made us watch the movie on Ghandi which we were supposed to write a several page paper on, I had half a page of notes, and you weren't allowed to use anything but the movie...
wtf?
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-02 21:40:17
I started taking a class on world religions several semesters back but the prof was an anti-technology guy and I'm sorry but I'm not going to take notes on paper anymore, I can type several times faster or just record it on my laptop... People take notes? The only reason I bothered to bring a notebook to classes was to practice my kana and kanji writing or have something to doodle on. Did you not get the eidetic memory perk at character creation? lolno, my memory is horrible and I'm a terrible student, hell he made us watch the movie on Ghandi which we were supposed to write a several page paper on, I had half a page of notes, and you weren't allowed to use anything but the movie...
wtf?
Suddenly years of painful college classes come rushing into my memory. So much for repressed memories. Thanks Obama.
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By fonewear 2014-04-02 21:45:09
I took notes in college I just never looked at them after class.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 21:47:49
I started taking a class on world religions several semesters back but the prof was an anti-technology guy and I'm sorry but I'm not going to take notes on paper anymore, I can type several times faster or just record it on my laptop... People take notes? The only reason I bothered to bring a notebook to classes was to practice my kana and kanji writing or have something to doodle on. Did you not get the eidetic memory perk at character creation? lolno, my memory is horrible and I'm a terrible student, hell he made us watch the movie on Ghandi which we were supposed to write a several page paper on, I had half a page of notes, and you weren't allowed to use anything but the movie...
wtf?
Suddenly years of painful college classes come rushing into my memory. So much for repressed memories. Thanks Obama. Yeah I tried to broaden my horizons a bit, and it bit me in the *** for a waste of my time/money (books), guess I should know better than try to take an enlightening class in a small town.
 Sylph.Shipp
サーバ: Sylph
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Posts: 440
By Sylph.Shipp 2014-04-06 17:23:28
Oh boy, more of this.
I suspect the reason it hasn't shown up much on the national stage is because who the *** cares about Mississippi? You know that one drunk uncle whom you suspect is molesting his kids? That's Mississippi.
This nonsense won't last long. And incompetent business-owners will learn the hard way. I know you're trying to be funny, but this type of mindset regarding the south really gets old. As someone who lives 20 minutes from the MS/AL state line, it's not as bad as people make it out to be, it is usually centralized to certain parts. Sure, there are definitely ignorant rednecks, but they're certainly not exclusive to the south.
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By Enuyasha 2014-04-06 17:50:49
Just be grateful the Romans were tolerant of Christianity, otherwise we would all still be worshiping the Roman Gods. Why would you even stop? Neptune is a *** badass Mars ***!!! Clothed in the skin of all the muhfuckas he killed in battle!
サーバ: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-06 18:54:45
Oh boy, more of this.
I suspect the reason it hasn't shown up much on the national stage is because who the *** cares about Mississippi? You know that one drunk uncle whom you suspect is molesting his kids? That's Mississippi.
This nonsense won't last long. And incompetent business-owners will learn the hard way. I know you're trying to be funny, but this type of mindset regarding the south really gets old. As someone who lives 20 minutes from the MS/AL state line, it's not as bad as people make it out to be, it is usually centralized to certain parts. Sure, there are definitely ignorant rednecks, but they're certainly not exclusive to the south.
And yet the representatives in gummint from the South continuously pass this garbage repeatedly. People in the South are like people anywhere - you'll find the good and bad - but the fact remains that someone is electing these dumbfucks to office.
Quote: "Last night, lawmakers in Mississippi passed SB 2681, an Arizona-style "right to discriminate" bill that would allow individuals and businesses to refuse to serve people or groups if they claimed that treating them equally would "substantially burden" their "exercise of religion."
The measure grants wide latitude for people and businesses to pick and choose who they want to serve, as long as they say they're doing it on religious grounds. Even "laws 'neutral' toward religion may burden religious exercise as surely as laws intended to interfere with religious exercise," the bill asserts.
The Washington Blade reports:
In a development that largely went unnoticed on the national stage, the State House and Senate on the same day both approved a conference report for S.B. 2681, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The vote in the Republican-controlled House was 78-43 and the vote in the Republican-controlled Senate vote was 38-14.
The bill now goes to conservative Republican Governor Phil Bryant, who is widely expected to sign it into law. If he does, the measure will take effect on July 1.
SB 2681's language is broad, and its sponsor -- Baptist minister and Republican State Senator Phillip Gandy -- has been careful not to specifically mention LGBT people in his public comments about the bill. But wink-and-a-nod remarks like one, from an interview Gandy gave to conservative Christian website OneNewsNow.com makes the bill's intent perfectly clear:
Sen. Gandy adds that it is not a reflection of the advances homosexual activists have made in pushing Christians into the closet.
"We are asked to be tolerant of many things," the lawmaker accounts, "and all we're asking for is some understanding and tolerance of our beliefs as well, that we would not be placed under an undue burden to do something that would violate our religious freedoms and our religious beliefs."
Thoughts on this?
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