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Russia and Ukraine
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 15:53:58
I didn't gloss over it, Putin just isn't worth addressing, he is a diva, and he is delusional.
Difference of opinion then on all parts. That's Nazi like behavior from the 'right sector.'
A lot of Russians have Ukrainian family and vice versa. A lot of Ukrainians work in Russia. So it's a little more complicated than closing borders. I myself found out I had a smidgen of Ukrainian in me, and distant cousins I never knew of there.
Family will still be there when the crisis is resolved. Until then, too bad. Like I said mind your own business in matters you not only know nothing about, but do not care about as obvious by your comment.
The crisis is the west needs to shut the *** up and mind its own business, period.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 15:55:27
And stop sending CIA agents there to cause trouble.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-18 15:57:18
There is nothing wrong with closing your borders during a crisis, especially to the country that has had a part in causing the crisis. Difference of opinion then on all parts. That's Nazi like behavior from the 'right sector.'
A lot of Russians have Ukrainian family and vice versa. A lot of Ukrainians work in Russia. So it's a little more complicated than closing borders. I myself found out I had a smidgen of Ukrainian in me, and distant cousins I never knew of there.
So, it China invaded and annexed Primorsky, you would oppose enhanced border security for Chinese people entering Russia? China does not do things like that, especially against Russia. They made peace a long time ago. China is a very neutral country, with the exception of Taiwan and some resentment towards Japan. Can't blame them.
It's called a hypothetical for a reason. Would you care to actually answer the question instead of sidestepping it? Hypothetical warmongering is not something I will take part in.
1. A hypothetical question addressed at your attacking Ukraine's current border policies. Please explain how my question has ANY relation to "warmongering".
2. Hawaii was annexed at the behest of American business moguls fearing the tariffs that an independent Hawaiian republic would cause to their whaling and sugar cane plantations there. After they had removed the rightful queen of the islands and sowed unrest among the natives against their own monarchy, the president refused to annex Hawaii and it was another 5 years before a different president finally did. Pretty fitting analogy of the way Chrimea was annexed by Russia.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 16:02:52
I didn't gloss over it, Putin just isn't worth addressing, he is a diva, and he is delusional.
Difference of opinion then on all parts. That's Nazi like behavior from the 'right sector.'
A lot of Russians have Ukrainian family and vice versa. A lot of Ukrainians work in Russia. So it's a little more complicated than closing borders. I myself found out I had a smidgen of Ukrainian in me, and distant cousins I never knew of there.
Family will still be there when the crisis is resolved. Until then, too bad. Like I said mind your own business in matters you not only know nothing about, but do not care about as obvious by your comment.
The crisis is the west needs to shut the *** up and mind its own business, period.
No thanks, anything else?
By Jetackuu 2014-04-18 16:04:33
I say we just bring back imperialism and be done with it.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:05:17
1. A hypothetical question addressed at your attacking Ukraine's current border policies. Please explain how my question has ANY relation to "warmongering".
2. Hawaii was annexed at the behest of American business moguls fearing the tariffs that an independent Hawaiian republic would cause to their whaling and sugar cane plantations there. After they had removed the rightful queen of the islands and sowed unrest among the natives against their own monarchy, the president refused to annex Hawaii and it was another 5 years before a different president finally did. Pretty fitting analogy of the way Chrimea was annexed by Russia. Your #2 is correct.
A parallel situation to Ukraine's border policy's would be at best how the Jews were treated in Germany during the The Night of the Long Knives (1934).
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 16:06:49
So it's ok for Russia to send agents in to cause chaos, but not the CIA? Hmm.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:07:05
I didn't gloss over it, Putin just isn't worth addressing, he is a diva, and he is delusional.
Difference of opinion then on all parts. That's Nazi like behavior from the 'right sector.'
A lot of Russians have Ukrainian family and vice versa. A lot of Ukrainians work in Russia. So it's a little more complicated than closing borders. I myself found out I had a smidgen of Ukrainian in me, and distant cousins I never knew of there.
Family will still be there when the crisis is resolved. Until then, too bad. Like I said mind your own business in matters you not only know nothing about, but do not care about as obvious by your comment.
The crisis is the west needs to shut the *** up and mind its own business, period.
No thanks, anything else? And that's why most of world hates the U.S.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-18 16:09:20
Your #2 is correct.
A parallel situation to Ukraine's border policy's would be at best how the Jews were treated in Germany during the The Night of the Long Knives (1934).
Except they were citizens, not foreign nationals of the country that just invaded them. False equivalency, nososti parroting, DRK level evasion skill...
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-04-18 16:10:10
I almost want to put together a drk evasion set now!
By Jetackuu 2014-04-18 16:11:00
calm down Seha
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 16:11:21
That still leaves room to sink to ranger evasion skill right?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:11:33
So it's ok for Russia to send agents in to cause chaos, but not the CIA? Hmm. For the last time, they didn't.
Crimea naval base always had troops there (25,000). Eastern Ukraine was done by the people living there, thinking perhaps they would get support if needed. As it turns out, Putin still has not sent any agents or troops there. He can if he thinks the situation will escalate into a full blown civil war. And that's what all sides are trying to prevent.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-18 16:13:57
So it's ok for Russia to send agents in to cause chaos, but not the CIA? Hmm. For the last time, they didn't.
Crimea naval base always had troops there (25,000). Eastern Ukraine was done by the people living there, thinking perhaps they would get support if needed. As it turns out, Putin still has not sent any agents or troops there. He can if he thinks the situation will escalate into a full blown civil war. And that's what all sides are trying to prevent.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 16:16:11
So it's ok for Russia to send agents in to cause chaos, but not the CIA? Hmm. For the last time, they didn't.
Crimea naval base always had troops there (25,000). Eastern Ukraine was done by the people living there, thinking perhaps they would get support if needed. As it turns out, Putin still has not sent any agents or troops there. He can if he thinks the situation will escalate into a full blown civil war. And that's what all sides are trying to prevent.
Say it as much as you want, you constantly contradict what the Kremlin is saying, what's the big deal if you contradict Putin?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:20:15
Your #2 is correct.
A parallel situation to Ukraine's border policy's would be at best how the Jews were treated in Germany during the The Night of the Long Knives (1934).
Except they were citizens, not foreign nationals of the country that just invaded them. False equivalency, nososti parroting, DRK level evasion skill... A lot of them [jews] migrated there between 1880 to 1920 from Russia. Just like Russians have been living in Ukraine for decades.
No foreign nationals of a country that just invaded them on either account.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-18 16:22:27
Your #2 is correct.
A parallel situation to Ukraine's border policy's would be at best how the Jews were treated in Germany during the The Night of the Long Knives (1934).
Except they were citizens, not foreign nationals of the country that just invaded them. False equivalency, nososti parroting, DRK level evasion skill... A lot of them [jews] migrated there between 1880 to 1920 from Russia. Just like Russians have been living in Ukraine for decades.
No foreign nationals of a country that just invaded them on either account.
If they hold a Russian passport and not a Ukrainian passport, they are foreign nationals and are subject to ANY restrictions Ukraine imposes. And there is nothing unreasonable about barring access to people from a country that just invaded you.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:27:17
So it's ok for Russia to send agents in to cause chaos, but not the CIA? Hmm. For the last time, they didn't.
Crimea naval base always had troops there (25,000). Eastern Ukraine was done by the people living there, thinking perhaps they would get support if needed. As it turns out, Putin still has not sent any agents or troops there. He can if he thinks the situation will escalate into a full blown civil war. And that's what all sides are trying to prevent.
Say it as much as you want, you constantly contradict what the Kremlin is saying, what's the big deal if you contradict Putin? Oh you're talking about those masked men, with no insignia thing. That was kind of like everyone knew they were Russian troops, but now the official word has came out.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:29:47
Your #2 is correct.
A parallel situation to Ukraine's border policy's would be at best how the Jews were treated in Germany during the The Night of the Long Knives (1934).
Except they were citizens, not foreign nationals of the country that just invaded them. False equivalency, nososti parroting, DRK level evasion skill... A lot of them [jews] migrated there between 1880 to 1920 from Russia. Just like Russians have been living in Ukraine for decades.
No foreign nationals of a country that just invaded them on either account.
If they hold a Russian passport and not a Ukrainian passport, they are foreign nationals and are subject to ANY restrictions Ukraine imposes. And there is nothing unreasonable about barring access to people from a country that just invaded you. I see you point to an extent here. I mean technically they used to be like how the U.S. and Canada was, where you didn't need a passport. So yeah if the coup-imposed government felt threaten, sure, in their minds.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-04-18 16:30:02
I almost want to put together a drk evasion set now!
i used to have one back in the day'
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:31:52
Everyone seems to forget how brutal this so called new government was since December's 'protests'. That has completely left people's mind in the west.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-18 16:33:47
Your #2 is correct.
A parallel situation to Ukraine's border policy's would be at best how the Jews were treated in Germany during the The Night of the Long Knives (1934).
Except they were citizens, not foreign nationals of the country that just invaded them. False equivalency, nososti parroting, DRK level evasion skill... A lot of them [jews] migrated there between 1880 to 1920 from Russia. Just like Russians have been living in Ukraine for decades.
No foreign nationals of a country that just invaded them on either account.
If they hold a Russian passport and not a Ukrainian passport, they are foreign nationals and are subject to ANY restrictions Ukraine imposes. And there is nothing unreasonable about barring access to people from a country that just invaded you. I see you point to an extent here. I mean technically they used to be like how the U.S. and Canada was, where you didn't need a passport. So yeah if the coup-imposed government felt threaten, sure, in their minds.
Uh... They were INVADED... the internal politics of Ukraine don't justify the actions taken by Russia, and it's laughable to decry that their citizens are inconvenienced as a result.
Everyone seems to forget how brutal this so called new government was since December's 'protests'. That has completely left people's mind in the west.
I haven't, a friend of mine died in those riots.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 16:36:25
I haven't forgotten it, but does it justify Russia breaking a treaty and invading the ukraine? Nope.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:45:28
I haven't forgotten it, but does it justify Russia breaking a treaty and invading the ukraine? Nope. An invasion would require an invading force. Unless you want to call it a political invasion of sorts using stationed troops as protection to make sure no blood was spilled.
I haven't, a friend of mine died in those riots. Then why would you support those people who got him killed?
Unless you think Russia was involved back then too somehow?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-18 16:47:42
I haven't, a friend of mine died in those riots. Then why would you support those people who got him killed?
Unless you think Russia was involved back then too somehow?
I don't remember ever saying I supported Kiev, I don't see how opposing invasion or understanding reasonable border policies implies that.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:50:22
All sides are trying to prevent an opposing invasion.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 16:50:47
That's the whole point of the Geneva talks.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 17:01:12
Now it's just of matter of trying to restore some trust to get everyone to calm down and prevent an actual invasion from NATO or Russia. All the rhetoric from Kiev and the U.S. is counterproductive.
Nobody wants Ukraine to be split up, but the new government is instigating the situation by all the banning of anything Russian. And John McCain is looking for an excuse to go to war with anyone wherever he goes.
What good does having Ukraine or large portions of it in the Russian Federation provide? Nothing. It does no one any good.
That's why they want federalization within the Ukraine of these self proclaimed territories. So each territory is self governing, but still remains within the Ukraine borders.
That seems to be an answer everyone can agree on, it's just of matter of trust now to make it happen.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 17:05:01
Are you insinuating that anything Russia has done is productive? They are the reason we are in this situation.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 17:10:34
I do agree that McCain, Graham and the rest of the warmongering republicans are idiots and have no idea what they are saying in regards to any foreign policy matter, but the fact is they have not been relevant in a while, Obama just ignores them, as does the rest of America.
Quote: MOSCOW (Reuters) - The legal process required to make Crimea part of Russia will be completed this week, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Thursday.
President Vladimir Putin signed a treaty to bring the Ukrainian region into Russia on Tuesday and the lower house of parliament was expected to ratify it later on Thursday. The upper house will follow suit on Friday.
"Practical steps are being taken to implement the agreements on the entry of Crimea and (the Crimean port city of) Sevastopol into Russia," Itar-Tass news agency quoted Lavrov as saying. "The legal process will be completed this week."
Russia's moves to annex the Black Sea peninsula, which has a narrow ethnic Russian minority, has turned a confrontation with Europe and the United States into the biggest crisis in East-West relations since the Cold War.
Lavrov blamed the West in a veiled reference to he United States, saying Western nations were trying to "preserve their global leadership and display their exceptionalism rather than striving to be guided by international law."
"The events in Ukraine are a reflection of these approaches," Lavrov said, adding that Moscow would continue to use "political, diplomatic and legal methods" to protect Russians abroad.
"We will insist that countries in which our compatriots have found themselves fully respect their rights and freedoms," he said. Russia accuses the new pro-Western authorities in Kiev of endangering Russian-speakers in eastern Ukraine.
SWIFT MOVES ON INTEGRATION
In addition to ratifying the treaty annexing Crimea, Russia's lower house, the State Duma, plans to adopt legislation required to make Crimea and Sevastopol - which is home to Russia's Black Sea Fleet - regions of Russia.
Both chambers are loyal to Putin and is doing his bidding over Crimea.
The treaty goes into force once ratified and stipulates that Crimea will be fully integrated into Russia after a transition period ending on January 1.
Russia has begun issuing Russian passports to Crimeans, Interfax quoted Russia's immigration agency chief, Konstantin Romodanovsky, as saying.
Crimean voters overwhelmingly backed joining Russia in a referendum on Sunday but the West says the vote was illegal.
The United States and Europe have imposed sanctions on officials and lawmakers accused of involvement in the annexation, partially suspended military and trade ties, and threatened more punitive measures.
Russian officials are moving swiftly to integrate the region and bolster an economy that has been dependent on Kiev for 85 percent of its electricity, 90 percent of its drinking water and some of its food supplies.
Finance Minister Anton Siluanov has said Russia will cover Crimea's estimated 55 billion ruble ($1.53 billion) budget deficit with funds from the federal budget.
Energy Minister Alexander Novak said Russia would also ensure Crimea has a constant power supply by providing back-up sources and controlling fuel reserves.
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