Jared Leto's Oscar Criticized By Transgender Community
フォーラム » Everything Else »
Politics and Religion
»
Jared Leto's Oscar Criticized By Transgender Community
Jared Leto's Oscar Criticized By Transgender Community
Woodruff's transformation away from loutish homo- and transphobia does represent the general LGBT acceptance movement, and while it's not at the forefront of the movie, it is a theme not entirely dependent on the larger topic of early HIV/AIDS drug treatments. So yeah, layers. DBC was essentially a by-the-numbers historical retrospective elevated by great performances and was by no means a very complex or deep film, but if the film's creators didn't want to address trangender issues they wouldn't have gone out of their way to create an entirely fictional transgender character.
[+]
Do we get real murderers to play homicidal psychos in our horror films?
No?
So the *** is the difference?
No?
So the *** is the difference?
always rely on XI to have a reliable population of people who don't read the thread and throw in redundant arguments
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
A listed mental condition in the DSM termed gender dysphoria- yes I have stated that several times. Hence how transgenders obtain insurance coverage. Sorry you haven't convinced society nor the APA that transexualism is a natural process like child birth. Take your beef up with the APA.
While I don't care if someone identifies as the opposite sex, I follow a rather simplistic and I guess narrow minded vision on the thing. You have XY chromosome? You're a man. You have XX? You're a woman.
Removing the original genitalia and taking hormones won't change this. So ya, it's all in the head. Now, why do people feel that way, that's another story that is different for everyone.
Quote:
Slurs? Stay out of progressive gay neighborhoods is my suggestion. Oh and don't watch RuPaul's Drag Race.
Progressive in 1995, maybe. Also, wouldn't if you paid me, that show is awful.
Quote:
Whether you care to admit or not drag-queens are always going to exist in the gay community. I'm terribly sorry if "fishy drag queens" are so difficult for you to process.
I never said they don't. My response was in reference to trans women.
Quote:
While I don't care if someone identifies as the opposite sex, I follow a rather simplistic and I guess narrow minded vision on the thing. You have XY chromosome? You're a man. You have XX? You're a woman.
As karotyping (chromosome testing) becomes more available, we're finding it is not that simple. There are numerous intersex conditions like Klinefelter's Syndrome and Partial/Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. There are women who have lived their whole lives as women. finding out in their 30's and 40's they have XY chromosomes. Then there are the conditions like Klinefelter's that cause XXY. So it's not that simplistic.
While I understand that bad stereotypes can be very annoying, especially for those who feel wrongly portrayed, I also think that not everything needs to become a crusade. Some arguments should only go so far.
Sometimes battles are necessary in life, but only pick the ones that truely are. This one? Meh, some bad plot/director/actor really isn't one.
Sometimes battles are necessary in life, but only pick the ones that truely are. This one? Meh, some bad plot/director/actor really isn't one.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
if the film's creators didn't want to address trangender issues they wouldn't have gone out of their way to create an entirely fictional transgender character.
Over-analyzing the film imo.
The way "Hollywood" and even society perceives the LGBT is via Hollywood/West Hollywood and NYC.
I know this is a difficult concept for you and some LGBT on FFXIAH to process, but the image is fairly accurate with respect to those "gayborhoods."
You have to understand that cities like LA and NYC boast larger LGBT and HIV+ populations, therefore the intra- and inter-social dynamics of the LGBT community have evolved differently compared to those in middle-America.
So Rayon is a fairly accurate deception of a drag-queen in a city like WeHo/Hollywood, she is not a fairly accurate depection of a transgender in a city like WeHo/Hollywood.
Fenrir.Ginny said: »
Progressive in 1995, maybe.
Should I go on?
Fenrir.Ginny said: »
As karotyping (chromosome testing) becomes more available, we're finding it is not that simple. There are numerous intersex conditions like Klinefelter's Syndrome and Partial/Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. There are women who have lived their whole lives as women. finding out in their 30's and 40's they have XY chromosomes. Then there are the conditions like Klinefelter's that cause XXY. So it's not that simplistic.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
And where do you live darling? How many LGBT business does your city operate?
I know of like 5 'businesses' (If you wanna call them businesses...)
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
How many physicians specializing in LGBT care does your city operate?
Quite a few in Huntington if memory serves, from King's Daughter to St Mary's Hospital.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
How many social services does your city tailor to the LGBT community: Housing assistances programs for LGBT and transgenders in your city?
That I don't know/can't find where to access that info, sorry.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Does your city operate an LGBT HIV center on par to that of UCLA?
Not sure, never really cared.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
How Many LGBT and HIV support groups does your city operate in comparison to NYC or Los Angeles?
Quite a few as Marshall University's campus is very diverse.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Should I go on?
(Yes, please.)
With regard to LGBT communities and businesses it's hard to define for Los Angeles. You have West Hollywood, which is a mix of the young LGBT community with Russian and Jewish groups. You have Silverlake which is an older more affluent crowd. However businesses are not just concentrated in LGBT communities. I'm sure San Francisco is the same with respect to Castro district and whatever the older enclave area is. Denver and Seattle are also up and coming LGBT areas as well. Phoenix has a thriving LGBT community and a lot of businesses along the downtown corridor. Though sadly PHX also has a HIV+Speed epidemic which currently seems unchecked.
sorry just rambling and giving up information.
sorry just rambling and giving up information.
[+]
Ragnarok.Yatenkou said: »
(Yes, please.)
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
With regard to LGBT communities and businesses it's hard to define for Los Angeles. You have West Hollywood, which is a mix of the young LGBT community with Russian and Jewish groups. You have Silverlake which is an older more affluent crowd. However businesses are not just concentrated in LGBT communities. I'm sure San Francisco is the same with respect to Castro district and whatever the older enclave area is. Denver and Seattle are also up and coming LGBT areas as well. Phoenix has a thriving LGBT community and a lot of businesses along the downtown corridor. Though sadly PHX also has a HIV+Speed epidemic which currently seems unchecked.
sorry just rambling and giving up information.
sorry just rambling and giving up information.
I would say that WeHo has a much much higher concentration of LGBT buisnesses compared to the rest of the city. Looking at Sunset Blvd, Santa Monica Blvd, and Melrose. You have a businesses like Atlantis Cruises and Grindr and numerous small fashion designers.
Yeah but my point is: The only reason that those cities are as big as they are is because of the media coverage and everyone and their mother wanting to live there, so yes the populations there will be enormous and diversity will be a big thing. It's like that everywhere, just on smaller scale.
There's no real point tbh, the only reason they have so much, is because they have a lot of things attracting people to live in those areas, big city with lots of job opportunities (NYC), surf, sand, a lot of exotic things and the chance to become famous (LA) and meet famous people.
Huntington has only a few things, Marshall University, and some other crap but a lot of pro athletes actually came from/through Huntington.
(Byron Leftwich
Randy Moss
Troy Brown
Chad Pennington
Doug Legursky)
Yet we get hardly any kind of attention because we're situated in West Virginia, aka the *** end of nowhere and as people like to call us "Hillbilly land"
There's no real point tbh, the only reason they have so much, is because they have a lot of things attracting people to live in those areas, big city with lots of job opportunities (NYC), surf, sand, a lot of exotic things and the chance to become famous (LA) and meet famous people.
Huntington has only a few things, Marshall University, and some other crap but a lot of pro athletes actually came from/through Huntington.
(Byron Leftwich
Randy Moss
Troy Brown
Chad Pennington
Doug Legursky)
Yet we get hardly any kind of attention because we're situated in West Virginia, aka the *** end of nowhere and as people like to call us "Hillbilly land"
Ragnarok.Yatenkou said: »
Yeah but my point is: The only reason that those cities are as big as they are is because of the media coverage and everyone and their mother wanting to live there, so yes the populations there will be enormous and diversity will be a big thing. It's like that everywhere, just on smaller scale.
Diversity doesn't necessarily equate social acceptance. Part of the reasons cities like SF, LA or NYC are so accepting and have such commodities for LGBT is because of their history. You had Stonewall, White and Blackcat Riots in those cities. LA specifically had Rodney King(non-LGBT related) which had huge ramifications on the city's social dynamics.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Ragnarok.Yatenkou said: »
Yeah but my point is: The only reason that those cities are as big as they are is because of the media coverage and everyone and their mother wanting to live there, so yes the populations there will be enormous and diversity will be a big thing. It's like that everywhere, just on smaller scale.
Diversity doesn't necessarily equate social acceptance. Part of the reasons cities like SF, LA or NYC are so accepting and have such commodities for LGBT is because of their history. You had Stonewall, White and Blackcat Riots in those cities. LA specifically had Rodney King(non-LGBT related) which had huge ramifications on the city's social dynamics.
The reason they are accepting is because they have cameras pointed at them. Take the spotlight off of them, and I can almost bet money something'll happen while we have no idea what is going on. Same deal here in West Virginia, we don't get a lot of coverage, and every day it's a murder, a car wreck, or the water crisis still going on with people not trusting the government who says the water is safe to drink. (I don't smell the scent of licorice anymore and I've been drinking for around 2 weeks now, feel perfectly fine.)
They don't want to paint the media/economic centers of the US in a bad light, hence the media coverage all the time of those cities.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Ragnarok.Yatenkou said: »
Yeah but my point is: The only reason that those cities are as big as they are is because of the media coverage and everyone and their mother wanting to live there, so yes the populations there will be enormous and diversity will be a big thing. It's like that everywhere, just on smaller scale.
Diversity doesn't necessarily equate social acceptance. Part of the reasons cities like SF, LA or NYC are so accepting and have such commodities for LGBT is because of their history. You had Stonewall, White and Blackcat Riots in those cities. LA specifically had Rodney King(non-LGBT related) which had huge ramifications on the city's social dynamics.
For that matter, where I'm originally from has been steadily overtaken by gay and lesbian couples (specifically couples) who have been integrating quietly and changing that state's entire dynamic.
But neither pop up in the media much because there hasn't been much smoke off those fires.
And frankly who cares? They're human beings they should be allowed to do w/e the flying *** they wanna do. If you don't like it, tough they live in a country that allows people to be who they are, if they are so against diversity, they can go to another country for all I care.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
That's kinda why I said the social-dynamics of cities like LA or NYC are vastly different with respects to LGBT. Edit: I should have just said Los Angeles, listing specific neighborhoods is tiresome lol
LA is sort of a different beast all together. Like you said you can find the quote unquote LGBT center on Santa Monica Blvd between Doheny and Fairfax but really it's not contained to that section. As you said you also have businesses on Sunset to the North, Melrose to the south, and even on Ventura Blvd in the Valley. Then you can go from West to East along any of those streets, even Beverly and end up in an entirely other LGBT community in the Silverlake/Echo Park/Pasadena/Eagle Rock quadrant.
Most people will say these are "hipster" areas but in reality the majority of residents, business owners and property owners are older members of the LGBT community.
Then you have Venice and Abbott Kinney on the West end of things which really isn't considered a LGBT community.
I think LA is one of those cities where the traditional stereotypical view of what is quote unquote LGBT gets broken since the volume is so large that you find everyone has the same desires when it comes to communities whether LGBT or Straight.
ex: The Young, hip and wild are drawn to West Ho/Sunset/Melrose/Hollywood Hills for the fashion and Clubs. The esoteric/eclectics and yuppies are attracted to Venice and Abbott Kinney. The very well to do and successful find themselves attracted Santa Monica, Century City, Beverly, Pacific Palisades. The avant garde in fashion and art tend to be drawn to Downtown, Silverlake, Echo Park, Pasadena etc.
edit: (Old town Pasadena where all the ridiculous mansions are)
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
That's kinda why I said the social-dynamics of cities like LA or NYC are vastly different with respects to LGBT. Edit: I should have just said Los Angeles, listing specific neighborhoods is tiresome lol
LA is sort of a different beast all together. Like you said you can find the quote unquote LGBT center on Santa Monica Blvd between Doheny and Fairfax but really it's not contained to that section. As you said you also have businesses on Sunset to the North, Melrose to the south, and even on Ventura Blvd in the Valley. Then you can go from West to East along any of those streets, even Beverly and end up in an entirely other LGBT community in the Silverlake/Echo Park/Pasadena/Eagle Rock quadrant.
Most people will say these are "hipster" areas but in reality the majority of residents, business owners and property owners are older members of the LGBT community.
Then you have Venice and Abbott Kinney on the West end of things which really isn't considered a LGBT community.
I think LA is one of those cities where the traditional stereotypical view of what is quote unquote LGBT gets broken since the volume is so large that you find everyone has the same desires when it comes to communities whether LGBT or Straight.
ex: The Young, hip and wild are drawn to West Ho/Sunset/Melrose/Hollywood Hills for the fashion and Clubs. The esoteric/eclectics and yuppies are attracted to Venice and Abbott Kinney. The very well to do and successful find themselves attracted Santa Monica, Century City, Beverly, Pacific Palisades. The avant garde in fashion and art tend to be drawn to Downtown, Silverlake, Echo Park, Pasadena etc.
edit: (Old town Pasadena where all the ridiculous mansions are)
My whole point in that whole ramble was that LA is hardly regressive for LGBT as Ginny had stated. The specialized services provided by UCLA, USC and the Los Angeles Department of Health for the LGBT community alone make it progressive.
[+]
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Fenrir.Ginny said: »
As karotyping (chromosome testing) becomes more available, we're finding it is not that simple. There are numerous intersex conditions like Klinefelter's Syndrome and Partial/Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. There are women who have lived their whole lives as women. finding out in their 30's and 40's they have XY chromosomes. Then there are the conditions like Klinefelter's that cause XXY. So it's not that simplistic.
Ironically you are doing the exact same thing you just condemned me for: pathologizing transexualism. You are comparing transexualism to "disorders" yet me using the term "medical condition" makes me a bigot. LoL.
Actually, all that does is show you're a bigot with poor reading comprehension skills. And that you don't know the difference between intersex and transsexualism. No comparison was made between the two, although there can be overlap. In this particular case, I was responding to his claim of chromosomes = sex/gender, which as we are finding out, is not so simple. XX does not always equal female, XY is not always male.
Also, I don't go around crying "mental disorder" to justify depriving someone of medical care, to deny someone the right to use the restroom, or to argue for separating the T from LGBT so as to not be attatched to a "mental disorder" That's all you, and that's all bigotry.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
My whole point in that whole ramble was that LA is hardly regressive for LGBT as Ginny had stated. The specialized services provided by UCLA, USC and the Los Angeles Department of Health for the LGBT community alone make it progressive.
Progressive services, but your attitude, which according to you is the norm in WeHo, is very regressive. To the point the outside world has passed you by. It's sad when living in what is technically the South, people still have better attitudes about LGBT people than our alleged allies in the "Gaybourhoods".
Demained before things get a bit too crazy and changed title; former title was worded a bit too harshly.
Please have respect for other users and their lifestyles. Keep it civil.
Please have respect for other users and their lifestyles. Keep it civil.
[+]
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
if the film's creators didn't want to address trangender issues they wouldn't have gone out of their way to create an entirely fictional transgender character.
Over-analyzing the film imo.
The way "Hollywood" and even society perceives the LGBT is via Hollywood/West Hollywood and NYC.
I know this is a difficult concept for you and some LGBT on FFXIAH to process, but the image is fairly accurate with respect to those "gayborhoods."
You have to understand that cities like LA and NYC boast larger LGBT and HIV+ populations, therefore the intra- and inter-social dynamics of the LGBT community have evolved differently compared to those in middle-America.
So Rayon is a fairly accurate deception of a drag-queen in a city like WeHo/Hollywood, she is not a fairly accurate depection of a transgender in a city like WeHo/Hollywood.
Fenrir.Ginny said: »
Also, I don't go around crying "mental disorder" to justify depriving someone of medical care, to deny someone the right to use the restroom, or to argue for separating the T from LGBT so as to not be attatched to a "mental disorder" That's all you, and that's all bigotry.
I have not used the term "mental disorder" I have used "mental condition" which it is. As long as gender dysphoria gets listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders it is a "mental condition" whether you like it or not. If you don't like that terminology take your discontent up with the medical community.
Quote:
The term Gender Identity Disorder is an older term for the condition. Some groups, including the American Psychological Association (APA), use the term Gender Dysphoria. The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual first described the condition in the third publication ("DSM-III") in 1980
Additionally, "what gender dysphoria is" and "how the condition is treated" is not what this thread is about. Debating gender dysphoria in the DSM is a completely different thread/topic.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
If the filmmakers were trying to give a realistic depiction of a transgender drag queen
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
realistic depiction of a transgender womandrag queen living in Dallas Oak Lawn in the mid-80
Fenrir.Ginny said: »
In this particular case, I was responding to his claim of chromosomes = sex/gender, which as we are finding out, is not so simple. XX does not always equal female, XY is not always male.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
They did a pretty damn good job of depicting a drag queen in Oak Lawn in the 80's.
Errr...You mean, Oaklawn as in outside of Highland Park and Turtle Creek? Mmmm...
Yeah Oak Lawn is the gay area of Dallas.
Yes, I'm very well aware of that. My mother worked in Highland Park in the 80's and my best friend's mother was a part of the Oaklawn/Turtle Creek scene. They're off on the gentrification period of Oaklawn.
So, you're an authority on every Gaybourhood in the nation now because of this movie? Just curious. You're starting to look awfully smug in your assumptions now.
So, you're an authority on every Gaybourhood in the nation now because of this movie? Just curious. You're starting to look awfully smug in your assumptions now.
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Yes, I'm very well aware of that. My mother worked in Highland Park in the 80's and my best friend's mother was a part of the Oaklawn/Turtle Creek scene. They're off on the gentrification period of Oaklawn.
So, you're an authority on every Gaybourhood in the nation now because of this movie? Just curious. You're starting to look awfully smug in your assumptions now.
So, you're an authority on every Gaybourhood in the nation now because of this movie? Just curious. You're starting to look awfully smug in your assumptions now.
LOL. I have family/friends in Dallas. I've mentioned that a few times on here I think. When I spoke to my friends in Oak Lawn they weren't really insulted by the movie.
The 80's isnt that far back especially for people in their 30's and 40's. Gasp I'm 31 this year!
[+]
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Gasp I'm 31 this year!
it'll be ok. I'm 31. life goes on...
[+]
I'll raise my hand and point out that I'm 31. And I don't remember ***about the '80s. I didn't become aware of the world outside my house until the '92 Presidential election.
[+]
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
I'll raise my hand and point out that I'm 31. And I don't remember ***about the '80s. I didn't become aware of the world outside my house until the '92 Presidential election.
I remember more from the 80's than I do from the 90's. I remember George Bush Sr's presidency like it was yesterday.
[+]
[+]
I don't know anyone that is 30 and still fun...
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2025 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.