G.O.P. Succumbs To Rare Outbreak Of Sanity

viva el comrade Obama!

So... Bob Costas...at last we meet!

How's the H eye V!

yeah we got rid of the spectrum. now it's diabolically evil tea party wackos on this side and everyone else on the other! the coalition of smelly commie hippies and normal people...

NOT THE VEGETABLES! PLEASE NO!

My example was to point out that two people given the exact same opportunity, same pay for what I meant to imply as the same job, are not equals in that they don't make use of their situations in the same way. One being well off middle class, and the other running himself into debt. I suppose I skimped on the details due to being in a hurry at the time I was posting, that is my bad.

The point is, if given the exact same, as in equal, opportunities, some people will do better and some worse, because they aren't equals. There's no contradiction there.

Never have I said that someone who works doing manual labor on the oil field would deserve more than the guy who went to school to learn and become that oil field's comptroller. They both do their own jobs, they've gone about different career paths and the types of work they put in are apples to oranges.

I'm saying everyone should have that same opportunity to try and obtain the skills needed to become the comptroller if they so desire. As it stands now that's not the case, and some people no matter how hard they work will never be given the chance to even get the skills to pursue that career.

I'm the guy saying everyone should work hard at what they do, be it washing dishes, cooking meals, drilling for oil, keeping books, or making decisions, I'm never going to belittle anyone's occupation.

I've lived on both sides of the fence growing up, extremely well off and abject poverty. From millionaires with nice clothes and college funds to living off donated can goods and bouncing around scamming motels to have a roof and walls.

I think if someone is willing to work fairly hard and try to better themselves, there should always be a way for them to do so without them going further in debt. There shouldn't be a "working poor" class in a successful first world country.

Painful. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Except maybe Rush Limbaugh.

Vlad sent one of his KGB goons to infect me, though. I'm *this* sure of it.

ugh, costas is such a blowhard douche.

I just thought he was saying hello to Hev...

That is messed up lol

Interesting how many people view the primary/only measure of success as having more money than another person.

Who is/was more successful?

• Stephen Hawking or Steve Jobs

• Steve Jobs or Bill Gates

• Stephen Hawking or Warren Buffet

• James Maxwell or Abraham Lincoln

• The Wright Brothers, or J.D. Rockefeller

Why?

Of the above, who has done the most for humanity (as a whole)? Does this count as a measure of success? Why or why not?

And liberal versus conservative viewpoint isn't about redistribution of income, it is about personal responsibility.

And anyone that doesn't have a Donald Trump-sized measure of self-delusion recognizes that either extreme is an extremely bad idea.

That is not financial equality. That's personal responsibility. Don't confuse the two.

Financial equality = 2 people who have the same skillset or degree of comparable skillsets having the same earning potential.

Personal responsibility = the ability to take care of oneself.

The contradiction is that you went from receiving/earning to consuming. Two different activities that are contradicting each other.

But it is the case. 2 kids in the same school have the opportunity to achieve the same thing. The only thing that differs between the two are individual abilities and responsibility. The only reason why the kid who went to college differs from the one who dropped out of high school is effort. One gave more effort than the other.

And don't give me any crap about one was able to learn better or whatever excuse you are going to give. I gave a lot of effort to be in the so-called "1%" of Americans today, even though I came from a very poor family. You had the same opportunity as I did, and yet, there you are down there.

Again, personal responsibility. The "working poor" created their own mess, why should I have to clean it up for them? I'm tired of cleaning up their own messes because some guy can't wrap his junk or some girl doesn't want to get a job, but wants the latest 75+ inch TV and 2014 Chevy Silverado.

"financial equality" is a misnomer. It has no real definition, I honestly think you guys just made it up, stop arguing over the definitions of made-up words.



Earning and consuming aren't contradictory, why would anyone earn other than to consume?

Again necons saying that Obama is a socialist and that the US political spectrum is skewed to the left.


This is just depressing.

Ah, see; that's where we have the problem.
Personal responsibility is accepting the consequences of your actions. That isn't the same as taking care of yourself.

The simple matter is that having a skillset (or lack of one) isn't necessarily the driving factor in earning potential.
By Thor, no. Differences in teachers, mentors, and coaches, even within the same school can cause huge deviations. Having a serious illness or accident can also cause large deviations.

Bottom line, if you're successful, you earned it, if you're not, you're lazy.

Blame the victim moar, please.

Being born poor is apparently a self-generated mess, like checking off the wrong boxes when you're at the character selection screen before shooting out of a vagina.

'Silver spoon?' - X
'Trust fund baby?' - X
'Blue-collar parents?' - O
'Born to immigrant parents?' - O

***. Can I reroll pls?

The boothstrap myth is strong in this thread.

It goes a little more than accepting the consequences of your actions. Otherwise, you would be making the same mistakes over and over again.

Yes it is. Knowing how to work with people is also considered a skillset and will get you ahead in the world. Not just asskissing, but all sorts of interactions and understandings about who you are talking to.

You need that skill to advance in the world. It is pointless to be the best at what you do if you don't also sell it.

I mean, why did Obama become president? Because of his outstanding Senate tenure? His leadership as a community organizer? His outstanding law practices? Or was it that he could sell *** better than his opponents?

Teachers/coaches can affect the learning ability of a student, but not much on the effort of the student himself. The drive is what makes you successful. Apparently you didn't know that, or never even tried that hard.

So, you are basically saying that, because you come from a poor family, there is no way for you to succeed then. Gee, I guess I'm the exception to the rule then, probably because I didn't play as the victim and expected others to support me for the rest of my life. I did something about it, I went to school, created a huge amount of debt, and made myself be who I am today.

Unless you are unable to think for yourself or unable to move for yourself, there is no reason, absolutely no reason why you can't get yourself out of the slum you live in and make yourself better than you possibly can dream about.

still

k

No, that is called applying knowledge of previous experiences to future decisions; or what normally would be called experience, or learning.
Knowing how to lie, cheat and steal can also be considered a skillset, one which would "get you ahead in the world".
You can invade, conquer, kill, maim, rape, and pillage. All of these tactics have, throughout history, been used to "get ahead in the world".
Your earning potential has more to do with wealth and socioeconomic status, than it does with a particular skillset.

Unless that "skillset" is specifically ruthlessness.

Really? Then if you take the school, libraries, and all access to knowledge away away, the student will magically be able to improve themselves. Damn, we should have though of that before we went and spent money on those things.


So not a single person helped you. No family, no friends; society did not help you. No teacher taught you anything. You didn't look at people making mistakes around you, and learning from their experiences. You *personally* funded all purchases of books, school supplies, transportation, clothes, and food, from birth until you entered society.

Who taught you to read, exactly? Or your first language?

The answer is that no, you did not solely make yourself who you are today. You play a driving role, yes, but there are other influences (some of which you have no control over).

Acknowledging that that doesn't take away from your accomplishments; but not acknowledging that is delusional.

There are plenty of reasons. One might be that a foreign government is imposing sanctions upon your country, or that your government prevents your particular race/gender from XYZ. Slavery also comes to mind.


Yes yes, personal attacks. And apparently I don't have drive, or tried that hard, which is stupendously obvious how, exactly, given the information known about me?

There is a difference taking responsibility for choices that I have made, and the belief that my life is not under the influence of external factors, nor that no other person has played a role in where I am today.

Can you explain what you mean by the bootstrap myth?

If you work hard in this world you do not deserve to be wealthy just because of the fact that you worked hard. WTF did you work hard at? Digging ditches is hard work. You gonna get rich digging ditches?

You ask people what they want and I'm sure their answer likely is to be successful or be wealthy, but they have absolutely zero goal or zero plan to accomplish it. How many dreams do people have that they never follow through with? How many dreams are just that dreams and not set as actual goals; with a plan to then achieve that goal. Working hard on a goal and making your choices with that goal in mind will likely put you exactly where you want to be at the end. But too often most of us don't take it that far. What I think you call the bootstrap myth is not a myth at all, it's just a path not often chosen or followed through with.

"bootstrap" can't absolve people from all of the choices they made in life. A person making 50k a year can have an excellent life. A person making 50k a year that chose to buy a 200k house and have 3 kids with a spouse that doesn't work and a couple cars is not going to have an excellent life. They will just be bitching about other people with money.

And people yet make the same mistakes over and over and over and..you get the picture. They keep making the same mistakes and not learning from previous mistakes. But you don't see that because you agree with those mistakes and consider it learning.

Oh noes, people who aren't rich never lie, cheat, and steal! They are pure and we must bless them by forcing the successful to give them money for their purity!!!

But on a serious note, people who are successful and stay successful do not lie, cheat, steal, kill, <insert whatever moral quandaries you may have with those who have> to create or maintain that wealth. And there are a lot more people who DO those who stay at the bottom of the ladder in life.

When you learn how to read, then lets talk about this little paragraph.

But until then, ponder this: what do I have that you didn't have when you grew up? A caring and intelligent and successful parent(s)? More money than to shake a stick at? A silver spoon shoved up my ***? I can guarantee you the answer to all those are no.See above response.

So, we all must pity everyone because slavery exists in some parts of the world?

"WAAAAAA!! I can't achieve anything in life because of some poor kid in Simolia is a slave! WAAAAAAA!!! Pay me to live because of that poor kid!!!

You can still get out of that situation if you are a slave. It's called "running away." They only stay slaves because they don't give any effort in changing their lifestyle.

That wasn't a personal attack. It's called "point of reference."

Now, the above jibe where I told you that I would get back at you when you learn to read, that was a personal attack on your intelligence. I wonder if you will understand why I said that. I even gave you a little help towards that too.

Duh, that's the liberal motto for the uneducated (aka Democrat voters).

I mean the bootstrap myth, the fact that there's more factors than their determination in this world.

There's no reason a person shouldn't be able to support a household of 5 on a 50k/year salary in a decent sized house.

If you want a simple answer: is that people aren't always poor/need support because they didn't put in the effort.

Interestingly enough most of the people I know that get nowhere in life and think they deserve more for working hard vote strictly Republitard.

They're uneducated, among other things.

Wow.

Ya, I basically just treat anything he says like it's meant to be a joke, there's no way someone could say that kind of crap and still manage to tie their own shoes.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we've gone full retard.