Are You A Lukewarm Christian?

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 19 20 21
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-01-30 23:08:56  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Guess people should stop voicing their opinions then.

I'm the type of person who can have a heated conversation with a theist then knock back beers and chat about some other random ***. Simply because we don't agree on metaphysical claims doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Just don't tell me I can't voice my opinion because it offends your sensitive little eyes and ears. And don't tell me that you want to infringe upon separation of church and state because it doesn't end well. Take a look at the cesspools across the globe. Go live in one if you want a theocratic nation.

Practice your religion and accept we infidels exist. If its such a problem, you can watch us all roast in hell or whatever metaphysical deathtraps you believe your loving god has concocted for us. Kinda boring though. You'd think more important things would be going on in the afterlife than watching humans get tortured.

Like football!

I don't believe in football though. I have no problem with what you said though.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 23:10:29  
BLASPHEMY. STRING EM UP BOYS.

We'll make you believe in football.... on the racks!
[+]
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-01-30 23:11:21  
I would convert if the woman was attractive enough. Side note.

I'm not Jewish now but that could change.


Makes you think if I was born a Jew maybe I'd be in Hollywood right now instead of freezing my *** off...
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 23:29:54  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I dunno, I think the burden of proof falls upon the atheists. Why? Because they have nothing to offer. If I believe there's an afterlife, why in the world would I abandon that just so I can accept your belief that death is the end of everything? Give me a good reason.
There is evidence for the current understanding of the universe presented by scientists, there is no evidence for the version offered by religion (in general). Atheists are making no claim, they say that they don't know how it started but are working to understand it. There is currently no reason to believe that anything does continue after death, the accounts of people who have been revived have little credibility and there has never been a documented case of continued existence after death. Going strictly by the facts, Religion (again in general) makes claims it cannot support by any testable means, whereas everything science claims is supported by tests and experiments that can be repeated with the same results indefinitely.

Speaking from a statistician's experience, no, not everything science claims is "supported by tests and experiments that can be repeated with the same results indefinitely." I get what you were going for, though.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-01-30 23:31:04  
I thought Religion had a restraining order on Science ?
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 23:36:10  
fonewear said: »
I thought Religion had a restraining order on Science ?

I embrace both, but I guess that makes me a minority.
Offline
Posts: 35422
By fonewear 2014-01-30 23:42:28  
I lean towards Philosophy because I find it more interesting but I do find some scientific things interesting.
 Odin.Jassik
VIP
Offline
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Jassik
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-31 00:37:24  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I dunno, I think the burden of proof falls upon the atheists. Why? Because they have nothing to offer. If I believe there's an afterlife, why in the world would I abandon that just so I can accept your belief that death is the end of everything? Give me a good reason.
There is evidence for the current understanding of the universe presented by scientists, there is no evidence for the version offered by religion (in general). Atheists are making no claim, they say that they don't know how it started but are working to understand it. There is currently no reason to believe that anything does continue after death, the accounts of people who have been revived have little credibility and there has never been a documented case of continued existence after death. Going strictly by the facts, Religion (again in general) makes claims it cannot support by any testable means, whereas everything science claims is supported by tests and experiments that can be repeated with the same results indefinitely.

Speaking from a statistician's experience, no, not everything science claims is "supported by tests and experiments that can be repeated with the same results indefinitely." I get what you were going for, though.

Fair enough, theory and extrapolation is a large part of the current astrological models, but at least there is a factual and testable basis for them, they follow established laws and effects.
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 00:39:13  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Endoq, kudos for trying to do good. You're going to end up with trolls who hate that people believe in something they don't, though. They salivate at the very idea of mocking the religious.

No one is salivating to mock you, the hyperbole is completely unnecessary. If you want to live in a bubble free from critique, plug your PC out and isolate yourself from society. By doing so, you'll assure you never learn or reevaluate your beliefs. A pity since many of the most notable Christian scholars/writers/philosophers were forced to hear challenges to their beliefs and reevaluate their faith.

But who am I to separate you from your dogma? The very same dogma Christian scholars have excoriated as being poisonous, dangerous and ultimately not in line with what Jesus had to say.
I never claimed to be mocked.
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 00:41:21  
I was gone for an hour and have 4 pages to catch up on lol
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 00:43:03  
I can see things got way off topic...
[+]
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 00:44:42  
This thread was intended to share the understanding of getting a closer relationship to Jesus for those that already have that relationship.
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-31 01:14:21  
Just curious, why did you pick Jesus instead of the other dozen gods? Did you find proof that he exists and the others gods don't?
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-31 01:42:46  
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Just curious, why did you pick Jesus instead of the other dozen gods? Did you find proof that he exists and the others gods don't?

I'm sorry, I know what you were trying to do there, but that was just a sad attempt.
 Remora.Brain
Offline
サーバ: Remora
Game: FFXI
user: Arucaurd
Posts: 602
By Remora.Brain 2014-01-31 02:04:04  
I'm pretty sure it's a legitimate question. What makes a religious person's god the "right" god?

If you're going to have beliefs backed with literally 0 proof, you should at least have a reason for holding your belief over other, just as viable, belief systems. Especially if you're going to be asking other people to believe it.
[+]
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-31 02:18:48  
I thought it was a good attempt at getting you to think about why you believe something.
[+]
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 02:34:29  
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Just curious, why did you pick Jesus instead of the other dozen gods? Did you find proof that he exists and the others gods don't?

I wish I had a short answer for this but it's something that took me years to figure out. My faith did not come to me quickly or easily. It wasn't until many years of seeking answers even if I afraid of what I found I still took all things objectively and without bias. and in my search for infallible truths what I found is not what I expected to find, I found God in this and his sons teachings to be true and virtuous where all others have fallen short.

If you want proof then that will be difficult as God hides his face from sin and the faithless (but that is not the only reason he hides his face at times). Deuteronomy 32 touches on this and 32:20 and 32:28 are the actual verses, but I like to read the whole chapter to get the context

I could go more deeply into the reasons I now have faith but it would likely come across as bragging about what God has done for me...

Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I thought it was a good attempt at getting you to think about why you believe something.

and a good question it was, it took me some time to compose my reply and I thank you for presenting me with this question because I had almost forgot some life changing moments
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-31 02:35:13  
Remora.Brain said: »
I'm pretty sure it's a legitimate question. What makes a religious person's god the "right" god? If you're going to have beliefs backed with literally 0 proof, you should at least have a reason for holding your belief over other, just as viable, belief systems. Especially if you're going to be asking other people to believe it.

"Proof" is an interesting word. Do we have proof of anything in this existence? That's debatable as far as philosophy goes. Nevertheless, I agree with you. I 100% back your statement that people should have a solid reason for believing what they believe. And while nobody can prove or disprove the existence of God, I do believe that there is evidence to back my beliefs. I don't have time at the moment to chronicle it all, nor would a video game forum even care to read it.
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-31 02:40:05  
I don't mind hearing you brag. If you've found evidence that christianity is the true, I'd think the rest of the world would be highly interested in what you have to say.


Bahamut.Ravael said: »
nor would a video game forum even care to read it.

Oh, I care. I would love to hear what you have to say.


Think about it. If you have actual evidence that one particular religion is true, this is global, world-changing news.
[+]
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-01-31 02:40:51  
No one can prove a negative. For that reason alone, it is not up to anyone other than the one supplying the claim to validate their own supposition.

It is for you, as the one making the claim, to provide evidence for your claim. If a single flaw exists within your argument, it is incorrect and must be adjusted to fit the flaw. If that isn't possible, it is considered an invalid supposition.
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-31 02:45:12  
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I don't mind hearing you brag. If you've found evidence that christianity is the true, I'd think the rest of the world would be highly interested in what you have to say.
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
nor would a video game forum even care to read it.
Oh, I care. I would love to hear what you have to say. Think about it. If you have actual evidence that one particular religion is true, this is global, world-changing news.

Not necessarily. As in a court case, "evidence" only supports a claim. It does not guarantee that the jury will believe it.
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 02:46:52  
Remora.Brain said: »
I'm pretty sure it's a legitimate question. What makes a religious person's god the "right" god?

If you're going to have beliefs backed with literally 0 proof, you should at least have a reason for holding your belief over other, just as viable, belief systems. Especially if you're going to be asking other people to believe it.
I question anyone claiming to be God, it would be foolish to follow anyone without question because it will leave you open to be miss leaded. If my heart and intentions are true then I have no reason not to be straight forward with God and ask him questions, I'm constantly harassing him with endless questions and his answers always come clear as day to me because I'm so dense and question everything to the point that him being discrete with me means I will most likely miss the reply, I even take caution when the answers seem to be clear, this way I don't end up deceiving my self either.
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-01-31 02:48:43  
I'd be wary to ask a jury whether or not they find gravity to be a truth or not. Yet, the theory of gravity persists; an ever deepening study of a natural phenomena that is constantly under revision.
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-31 02:49:01  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Not necessarily. As in a court case, "evidence" only supports a claim. It does not guarantee that the jury will believe it.

Sure I guess. Shall we move forward to the evidence that you say you have? Can you tell us about it?
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-31 02:56:26  
It's personal, but as soon as I have time to put together a worthwhile response, I'll give it a shot.
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-01-31 03:02:42  
Well I look forward to hearing it when you want to share.

What about you Endoq? What was it that took you years to figure out? If you don't have time, some cliff notes would be cool too.
[+]
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-01-31 03:03:17  
The evidence is personal?
[+]
 Fenrir.Jinjo
VIP
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Minjo
Posts: 2269
By Fenrir.Jinjo 2014-01-31 03:06:28  
I'm a pretty hot christian xD
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 03:08:06  
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Not necessarily. As in a court case, "evidence" only supports a claim. It does not guarantee that the jury will believe it.

Sure I guess. Shall we move forward to the evidence that you say you have? Can you tell us about it?

Science and the Bible agree that the universe began, and that it immediately operated according to predictable natural laws. When the universe came into existence, all the laws of physics and chemistry were intact; they did not "evolve." Patrick Glynn, in his book God: The Evidence, writes that everything had to be "'just right' from the very start, everything from the values of fundamental forces like electromagnetism and gravity, to the relative masses of the various subatomic particles, to things like the number of neutrino types at time 1 second, which the universe has to 'know' already at 10-43 second. The slightest tinkering with a single one of scores of basic values and relationships in nature would have resulted in a universe very different from the one we inhabit—say, one with no stars like our sun, or no stars, period. Far from being accidental, life appeared to be the goal toward which the entire universe from the very first moment of its existence had been orchestrated, fine-tuned"

Science has found no reason for the many laws of physics and chemistry, and for the many precise values and relationships, to have come into existence exactly as they are. From a mathematical point of view, the odds against our universe having just the right laws to sustain life are astronomical.

Remember, these laws were in existence at the first moment of creation. Scientists recognize that they had to be. As Hawking acknowledged in The Nature of Space and Time: "The only way to have scientific theory is if the laws of physics hold everywhere, including at the beginning of the universe".

Is it reasonable, then, to assume that these laws came about from nothing, from random chance? The existence of such predictable laws in nature points to a master intelligence and Lawgiver.
 Valefor.Endoq
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Endoq
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 03:09:54  
There is so much to say on this topic I don't even know where to start lol
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 19 20 21
Log in to post.