Are You A Lukewarm Christian?

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Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 20:58:08  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu, just leave the discussion to Jassik. He does a way better job of presenting an argument, even if I disagree with him most of the time.

Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".

He just dumbs it down for you, more power to him.

No, there isn't. Don't start that bull of saying religion is being persecuted in the US because it isn't.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 20:59:28  
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jesus never said to kill the sinners and nonbelievers, he said the opposite of that.
He said to hate sin and to love the sinner and to show nonbelievers by living as Jesus did and in this way the Holy Spirit can touch them when they see his life in your works/fruits.

Depends, do you believe in the triad?

Personally I'm all for trying to live a better life, but what one dude possibly said thousands of years ago, I take with a bag of salt.
Do you mean the trinity? Yes I believe in the trinity, one way to try to understand its concept is by considering how we were created in his image, so by looking at how we have mind, body, and spirit combined as a single being, yet existing as 3 separate at the same time, is how I wrap my mind around this concept. Of course this is an over simplification I'm sure...
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 20:59:58  
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu, just leave the discussion to Jassik. He does a way better job of presenting an argument, even if I disagree with him most of the time. Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".
He just dumbs it down for you, more power to him. No, there isn't. Don't start that bull of saying religion is being persecuted in the US because it isn't.

There is, you just can't see it. Also, you make me lol.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 21:00:19  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".
This is so true!
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:00:25  
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:02:28  
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jesus never said to kill the sinners and nonbelievers, he said the opposite of that.
He said to hate sin and to love the sinner and to show nonbelievers by living as Jesus did and in this way the Holy Spirit can touch them when they see his life in your works/fruits.

Depends, do you believe in the triad?

Personally I'm all for trying to live a better life, but what one dude possibly said thousands of years ago, I take with a bag of salt.
Do you mean the trinity? Yes I believe in the trinity, one way to try to understand its concept is by considering how we were created in his image, so by looking at how we have mind, body, and spirit combined as a single being, yet existing as 3 separate at the same time, is how I wrap my mind around this concept. Of course this is an over simplification I'm sure...

Then by that logic, if god and Jesus are the same, and you believe in the old testament, then yes Jesus did say those things, as he is the same as god. But that's splitting hairs, I'm not trying to bust your balls.

Just something you may want to ponder about, imo.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:04:15  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:04:26  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu, just leave the discussion to Jassik. He does a way better job of presenting an argument, even if I disagree with him most of the time. Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".
He just dumbs it down for you, more power to him. No, there isn't. Don't start that bull of saying religion is being persecuted in the US because it isn't.

There is, you just can't see it. Also, you make me lol.
Where is it? Where is religion persecuted in America? Especially the Christian religion?

Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Do you make fun of the guy who claims he was abducted by aliens? They have just as much credibility.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:04:57  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.

Oh give it ten years.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:05:22  
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu, just leave the discussion to Jassik. He does a way better job of presenting an argument, even if I disagree with him most of the time. Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".
He just dumbs it down for you, more power to him. No, there isn't. Don't start that bull of saying religion is being persecuted in the US because it isn't.

There is, you just can't see it. Also, you make me lol.
Where is it? Where is religion persecuted in America? Especially the Christian religion?

Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Do you make fun of the guy who claims he was abducted by aliens? They have just as much credibility.

Jet's troll attempt #4
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 21:06:30  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.

Oh give it ten years.

slippery slope falacy, America has become MORE religious over the last 30 years.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 21:07:27  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.

Criticism isn't persecution nor people who mock your beliefs. If you want to silence critics, present evidence regarding what you believe is true but we all know this is impossible because faith is belief in that which cannot be seen in the physical universe.

I can believe that dimension hopping unicorns created the universe, seeding horses here to watch over us and guide civilization and you're free to call it all a load of hogwash. One major appeal of America is our secular Constitution and the freedom to practice your beliefs as you see fit.

Just keep it out of government.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 21:07:35  
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jesus never said to kill the sinners and nonbelievers, he said the opposite of that.
He said to hate sin and to love the sinner and to show nonbelievers by living as Jesus did and in this way the Holy Spirit can touch them when they see his life in your works/fruits.

Depends, do you believe in the triad?

Personally I'm all for trying to live a better life, but what one dude possibly said thousands of years ago, I take with a bag of salt.
Do you mean the trinity? Yes I believe in the trinity, one way to try to understand its concept is by considering how we were created in his image, so by looking at how we have mind, body, and spirit combined as a single being, yet existing as 3 separate at the same time, is how I wrap my mind around this concept. Of course this is an over simplification I'm sure...

Then by that logic, if god and Jesus are the same, and you believe in the old testament, then yes Jesus did say those things, as he is the same as god. But that's splitting hairs, I'm not trying to bust your balls.

Just something you may want to ponder about, imo.

Have you read the new testament? It is a new set of laws for us.
I have been working my way through the old testament now that I have gone over the new testament a few times.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:09:09  
Valefor.Endoq said: »

Have you read the new testament? It is a new set of laws for us.
I have been working my way through the old testament now that I have gone over the new testament a few times.
Yes, and I also read where Jesus said that he wasn't there to repeal the old laws, so I don't buy into that interpretation.

Even if I believed in any of it.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:09:50  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.

Criticism isn't persecution nor people who mock your beliefs. If you want to silence critics, present evidence regarding what you believe is true but we all know this is impossible because faith is belief in that which cannot be seen in the physical universe.

I can believe that dimension hopping unicorns created the universe, seeding horses here to watch over us and guide civilization and you're free to call it all a load of hogwash. One major appeal of America is our secular Constitution and the freedom to practice your beliefs as you see fit.

Just keep it out of government.
Watch it, you'll be called a troll, as you're making a logical argument that they can't refute.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 21:11:21  
Again I just wanted to say I started this thread to share what I found with other Christians, not to start a debate. I am more than happy to have nonchristians here as well and pray that this can even help you live a happier life even if you reject the religious part.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:11:27  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.

Oh give it ten years.

slippery slope falacy, America has become MORE religious over the last 30 years.

Think you are misusing the term slippery slope. It's not a slippery slope. It is just a prevailing antireligious attitude that is very apparent in our society.

I have no idea where you are getting the information that America has become more religious over the last 30 years, but you must have missed the mass Church closings and consolidations over the last decade or so.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:15:41  
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Again I just wanted to say I started this thread to share what I found with other Christians, not to start a debate. I am more than happy to have nonchristians here as well and pray that this can even help you live a happier life even if you reject the religious part.

Should check into secular humanism some, even if you are religious. Just my opinion.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:16:28  
Endoq, kudos for trying to do good. You're going to end up with trolls who hate that people believe in something they don't, though. They salivate at the very idea of mocking the religious.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 21:17:57  
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »

Have you read the new testament? It is a new set of laws for us.
I have been working my way through the old testament now that I have gone over the new testament a few times.
Yes, and I also read where Jesus said that he wasn't there to repeal the old laws, so I don't buy into that interpretation.

Even if I believed in any of it.
yes that's true, but some of the food we weren't supposed to eat before is now clean for us to consume, and his teaching of peace and turning the other cheek were clear as day, he even died for this teaching.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:18:45  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Just mocked, belittled and insulted but not persecuted yet in America.

Well, I consider those things a form of persecution. I guess my definition is broad.

Oh give it ten years.

slippery slope falacy, America has become MORE religious over the last 30 years.

Think you are misusing the term slippery slope. It's not a slippery slope. It is just a prevailing antireligious attitude that is very apparent in our society.

I have no idea where you are getting the information that America has become more religious over the last 30 years, but you must have missed the mass Church closings and consolidations over the last decade or so.

It has to do with the consolidation of the political sphere using the coined term "Christian" in politics, over identifying with their particular denomination. A few decades ago a Mormon would have never made it to the Republican nomination for President, or Democratic, if it hadn't changed, we'd still be bickering over Catholic or Protestant.

I'd say the fact that the economy tanked probably has more to do with closings than the lack of religious people.

Depending on which polls you look at, we're still an overwhelmingly "Christian" nation, sad really. I blame the lack of good education, and obviously the South.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:19:41  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Endoq, kudos for trying to do good. You're going to end up with trolls who hate that people believe in something they don't, though. They salivate at the very idea of mocking the religious.


(sorry, had to).
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 21:20:47  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Endoq, kudos for trying to do good. You're going to end up with trolls who hate that people believe in something they don't, though. They salivate at the very idea of mocking the religious.

No one is salivating to mock you, the hyperbole is completely unnecessary. If you want to live in a bubble free from critique, plug your PC out and isolate yourself from society. By doing so, you'll assure you never learn or reevaluate your beliefs. A pity since many of the most notable Christian scholars/writers/philosophers were forced to hear challenges to their beliefs and reevaluate their faith.

But who am I to separate you from your dogma? The very same dogma Christian scholars have excoriated as being poisonous, dangerous and ultimately not in line with what Jesus had to say.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:22:12  
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »

Have you read the new testament? It is a new set of laws for us.
I have been working my way through the old testament now that I have gone over the new testament a few times.
Yes, and I also read where Jesus said that he wasn't there to repeal the old laws, so I don't buy into that interpretation.

Even if I believed in any of it.
yes that's true, but some of the food we weren't supposed to eat before is now clean for us to consume, and his teaching of peace and turning the other cheek were clear as day, he even died for this teaching.

I'd say he died more because he was a political threat, and it was kind of OK back then to take care of your political enemies in such a way. Jesus was against "the man" and if he lived in this day instead of then (a guy with the same attitude) he'd be mocked along with everyone else at the OWS protests.

I don't deny that there was a guy in the time period called Jesus, I just doubt his claims. Go figure.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:25:01  
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:26:21  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Endoq, kudos for trying to do good. You're going to end up with trolls who hate that people believe in something they don't, though. They salivate at the very idea of mocking the religious.
No one is salivating to mock you, the hyperbole is completely unnecessary. If you want to live in a bubble free from critique, plug your PC out and isolate yourself from society. By doing so, you'll assure you never learn or reevaluate your beliefs. A pity since many of the most notable Christian scholars/writers/philosophers were forced to hear challenges to their beliefs and reevaluate their faith. But who am I to separate you from your dogma? The very same dogma Christian scholars have excoriated as being poisonous, dangerous and ultimately not in line with what Jesus had to say.

Did I at any point say that I wanted to live in an environment free from critique? No, you have every right to post in this thread, even if it was designed to be a forum discussion for Christians. But of course, it just couldn't happen that way. The atheist patrol just had to put in its two cents about how horrible religion is.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:27:00  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.

That is where you fail, as I found a logical way to observe it.

I had a lot of free time when I used to work nights, go figure.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:27:41  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Endoq, kudos for trying to do good. You're going to end up with trolls who hate that people believe in something they don't, though. They salivate at the very idea of mocking the religious.
No one is salivating to mock you, the hyperbole is completely unnecessary. If you want to live in a bubble free from critique, plug your PC out and isolate yourself from society. By doing so, you'll assure you never learn or reevaluate your beliefs. A pity since many of the most notable Christian scholars/writers/philosophers were forced to hear challenges to their beliefs and reevaluate their faith. But who am I to separate you from your dogma? The very same dogma Christian scholars have excoriated as being poisonous, dangerous and ultimately not in line with what Jesus had to say.

Did I at any point say that I wanted to live in an environment free from critique? No, you have every right to post in this thread, even if it was designed to be a forum discussion for Christians. But of course, it just couldn't happen that way. The atheist patrol just had to put in its two cents about how horrible religion is.

Actually, nobody has even said that in this thread, way to play the victim.

But yes, you insinuate it, with your statements and behavior and attitude.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 21:27:42  
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »

Have you read the new testament? It is a new set of laws for us.
I have been working my way through the old testament now that I have gone over the new testament a few times.
Yes, and I also read where Jesus said that he wasn't there to repeal the old laws, so I don't buy into that interpretation.

Even if I believed in any of it.
yes that's true, but some of the food we weren't supposed to eat before is now clean for us to consume, and his teaching of peace and turning the other cheek were clear as day, he even died for this teaching.

I'd say he died more because he was a political threat, and it was kind of OK back then to take care of your political enemies in such a way. Jesus was against "the man" and if he lived in this day instead of then (a guy with the same attitude) he'd be mocked along with everyone else at the OWS protests.

I don't deny that there was a guy in the time period called Jesus, I just doubt his claims. Go figure.

He was executed for sedition, I don't believe there is any debate over their motives.

Regardless, no reason to turn the thread into a complete feces throwing contest, we've said our peace.

Phoenix.Amandarius said: »

Think you are misusing the term slippery slope. It's not a slippery slope. It is just a prevailing antireligious attitude that is very apparent in our society.

I have no idea where you are getting the information that America has become more religious over the last 30 years, but you must have missed the mass Church closings and consolidations over the last decade or so.

Polls, and stop trying to be the victim, how many millenia have Christians been persecuting everyone else?
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