|
|
Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 15:40:29
To listen to the OP, or not to listen to the OP. That is the question.
Question is how far off topic can one thread go.
It has almost completed the full story arc of a P&R thread. We haven't accused Christians for supporting Hitler yet!
oh wait, they did.
It's not fun unless it's not true!
[+]
By fonewear 2014-01-31 15:40:32
At page 17 people start getting bored
You would think that but look at what RT is. I mean it is basically anime *** that never ends.
[+]
By fonewear 2014-01-31 15:41:21
To listen to the OP, or not to listen to the OP. That is the question.
Question is how far off topic can one thread go.
It has almost completed the full story arc of a P&R thread. We haven't accused Christians for supporting Hitler yet!
oh wait, they did.
It's not fun unless it's not true!
Hitler was and will always be my favorite derail.
[+]
 Leviathan.Celille
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 153
By Leviathan.Celille 2014-01-31 15:41:26
While those sodas are good I have to say they're really overpriced.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2014-01-31 15:41:46
 My avatar is a turtle sandwich. Your argument is invalid.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 15:42:18
To listen to the OP, or not to listen to the OP. That is the question.
Question is how far off topic can one thread go.
It has almost completed the full story arc of a P&R thread. We haven't accused Christians for supporting Hitler yet!
oh wait, they did.
It's not fun unless it's not true!
Hitler was black prove me wrong! Who, him?
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 15:42:20
This is the original post topic.
Point was to share some things to help further that already existing relationship for those that have it. Not meant to start a debate. Please note that I posted this in the "Politics and Religion" topic, so please no hateful or anti religion remarks or flame-wars.
This post is for my fellow Christians, but I welcome all who are not, but do have a genuine interest in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
I spent many years being a lukewarm Christian after I first accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and in the last year or so I have devoted myself to him and my life has changed for the better in ways I never imagined possible. and today in my studies I came across some informative websites that touched on some issues that have bothered me for some time now.
Here is the info from those websites.
Are You A Lukewarm Christian? 1. Lukewarm people attend church fairly regularly. It is what is expected of them, what they believe “good Christians” do, so they go. Isaiah 29:13
2. Lukewarm people give money to charity and to the church as long as it doesn’t impinge on their standard of living. If they have a little extra and it is easy and safe to give, they do so, After all, God loves a cheerful giver, right? 1 Chronicles 21:24, Luke 21:1-4
3. Lukewarm people tend to choose what is popular over what is right when they are in conflict. They desire to fit in both at church and outside of church; they care more about what people think of their actions (like church attendance and giving) than what God thinks of their hearts and lives. Luke 6:26, Revelation 3:1, Matthew 23:5-7 4.
4: Lukewarm people don’t really want to be saved from their sin; they want only to be saved from the penalty of their sin. They don’t genuinely hate sin and aren’t truly sorry for it; they’re merely sorry because God is going to punish them. Lukewarm people don’t really believe that this new life Jesus offers is better than the old sinful one. John 10:10, Romans 6:1-2.
5. Lukewarm people are moved by stories of people who do radical things for Christ, yet they do not act. They assume such action is for “extreme” Christians, not average ones. Lukewarm people call “radical” what Jesus expected of all His followers. James 1:22, James 4:17, Matthew 21:28-31
6. Lukewarm people rarely share their faith with their neighbors, coworkers, or friends. They do not want to be rejected, nor do they want to make people uncomfortable by talking about private issues like religion. Matthew 10:32-33
7. Lukewarm people gauge their morality or “goodness” by comparing themselves to the secular world. They feel satisfied that while they aren’t as hard-core for Jesus as so-and-so, they are nowhere as horrible as the guy down the street. Luke 18:11-12
8. Lukewarm people say they love Jesus, and He is, indeed, a part of their lives, their money, and their thoughts, but he isn’t allowed to control their lives. Luke 9:57-62
9. Lukewarm people love God, but they do not love Him all their heart, soul, and strength. They would be quick to assure you they try to love God that much, but that sort of total devotion isn’t really possible for the average person; its only for pastors and missionaries and radicals. Matthew 22:37-38
10. Lukewarm people love others but do not seek to love others as much as they love themselves. Their love for others is typically focused on those who love them in return, like family, friends, and other people they know and connect with. There is a little love left over for those who cannot love them back, much less for those who intentionally slight them, who kids are better athletes than theirs, or with whom conversations are awkward or uncomfortable. Their love is highly conditional and very selective, and generally comes with strings attached. Matthew 5:43-47, Luke 14:12-14
11. Lukewarm people will serve God and others, but there are limits to how far they will go or how much time, money, and energy they are willing to give. Luke 18:21-25
12. Lukewarm people think about life on earth much more often than eternity in heaven. Daily life is mostly focused on today’s to-do list, this week’s schedule, and next month’s vacation. Rarely, if ever do they intently consider the life to come. Philippians 3:18-20
13. Lukewarm people are thankful for their luxuries and comforts, and rarely consider trying to give as much as possible to the poor. Matthew 25:34, 40, Isaiah 58:6-7
14. Lukewarm people do whatever is necessary to keep themselves from feeling too guilty. They want to do the bare minimum, to be “good enough” without requiring too much of them. 1 Chronicles 29:14, Matthew 13:44-46
15. Lukewarm people are continually concerned with playing it safe; they are slaves to the god of control. This focus on safe living keeps them sacrificing and risking for God. Matthew 10:28
16. Lukewarm people feel secure because they attend church, made a profession of faith at age twelve, were baptized, come from a Christian family, vote Republican, or live in America.
17. Luke warm people do not live by faith; their lives are structured so they never have to. They don’t have to trust God if something unexpected happens-they have their savings account. They don’t need God to help them—they have their retirement plan in place. They don’t genuinely seek out what life God would have them live—they have life figured and mapped out. They don’t depend on God on a daily basis-their refrigerators are full and, for the most part, they are in good health. The truth is, their lives wouldn’t look much different if they suddenly stopped believing in God. Luke 12:16-21
18. Lukewarm people probably drink and swear less than average, but besides that, they really aren’t very different from your typical unbeliever. They equate their partially sanitized lives with holiness, but they couldn’t be more wrong. Matthew 23:25-28, Luke 14:34-35
Source: http://chrismarlow.me/2008/06/are-you-a-lukewarm-christian/
Bible Verses about lukewarm Christians: Revelation 3:15-16 ESV / 495 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:14-22 ESV / 298 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
1 John 2:15-16 ESV / 220 helpful votes
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Matthew 12:30 ESV / 134 helpful votes
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Matthew 5:13 ESV / 130 helpful votes
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
James 3:10-12 ESV / 94 helpful votes
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.
2 Timothy 4:3 ESV / 76 helpful votes
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 ESV / 69 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”
Matthew 16:26 ESV / 67 helpful votes
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
1 John 3:10 ESV / 63 helpful votes
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Matthew 12:33-37 ESV / 51 helpful votes
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
1 Peter 3:15 ESV / 46 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
2 Timothy 3:4 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 40 helpful votes
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
Revelation 1:3 ESV / 39 helpful votes
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.
Deuteronomy 30:19 ESV / 37 helpful votes
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Revelation 3:14-19 ESV / 33 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
John 14:6 ESV / 29 helpful votes
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Mark 13:35-36 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
Hebrews 12:7 ESV / 26 helpful votes
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Romans 12:1 ESV / 25 helpful votes
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Matthew 28:19 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Revelation 3:16 ESV / 24 helpful votes
So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Philippians 4:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Matthew 10:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.
Revelation 21:7 ESV / 18 helpful votes
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Romans 7:24 ESV / 18 helpful votes
Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Revelation 12:11 ESV / 17 helpful votes
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
Colossians 2:12 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 ESV / 16 helpful votes
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 1:1-32 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,
Matthew 18:3 ESV / 15 helpful votes
And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21 ESV / 15 helpful votes
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Psalm 118:1-18 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever! Let Israel say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let the house of Aaron say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let those who fear the Lord say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free.
Matthew 18:10 ESV / 14 helpful votes
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Jeremiah 10:5 ESV / 14 helpful votes
Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”
Colossians 1:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Luke 18:8 ESV / 13 helpful votes
I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
Zechariah 14:12 ESV / 13 helpful votes
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
Revelation 2:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
James 4:17 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
James 1:6 ESV / 12 helpful votes
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Luke 17:30 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Mark 11:1-33 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples and said to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately as you enter it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has ever sat. Untie it and bring it. If anyone says to you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ say, ‘The Lord has need of it and will send it back here immediately.’” And they went away and found a colt tied at a door outside in the street, and they untied it. And some of those standing there said to them, “What are you doing, untying the colt?”
Matthew 28:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
1 John 2:27 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Revelation 3:15 ESV / 10 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
John 3:1-36 ESV / 10 helpful votes
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
2 Timothy 1:7 ESV / 9 helpful votes
For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
Luke 17:1-2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
Helpful Not Helpful
John 15:5-6 ESV / 8 helpful votes
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
source: http://www.openbible.info/topics/lukewarm_christians
Another thing that seems to be left out these days is the teaching of what repentance is. Is asking for forgiveness without repenting really meaningful? To truly mean it is to repent from that sin, to repent is to turn away from it, not because of the consequences but because of a genuine disdain for sin. To repent and then turn back to the same sin again is like a dog eating its own vomit just to become sick all over again... I was to understand the entire point of Christian Apologetics was there is no way for a human being to NOT be "lukewarm", by this standard, but Jesus died to make all that okay and all that was really needed for a Christian to be good in the eyes of God was to repent and try to do better, y/n?
Christian Apologetics: Checking Your Privilege Since 325 AD Yes all that is required it to repent and accept Jesus Christ as your only savior and Lord. This post was more to help further that relationship with god and to live our full potential as we try our best to walk in his foot steps, yes it is impossible to reach perfection but that is part of the test to, in life we learn how much we need his guidance and how short we fall compared to him, but we must all try our best no matter how many times we inevitably fail and in all this is learn things like humility and compassion and the realization that no one is in any position to pass judgement and look down onto any other person Bump Bumped for new page . . .
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-01-31 15:42:38
my friend's name in XIV is Jigalo Turtleburger
By fonewear 2014-01-31 15:43:12
Obama is not 100% black your argument is invalid.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-31 15:44:05
Obama is not 100% black your argument is invalid.
Half black, half white, all nazi.
[+]
 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-01-31 15:44:42
When I went to do the holy communion as a child and had to confess to the priest I didn't know what to say lol, he basically told me a few sins to confess and then assolved me, I didn't even speak lol.
[+]
 Bahamut.Milamber
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-01-31 15:44:54
To listen to the OP, or not to listen to the OP. That is the question.
Question is how far off topic can one thread go.
It has almost completed the full story arc of a P&R thread. We haven't accused Christians for supporting Hitler yet!
oh wait, they did.
It's not fun unless it's not true! There was this, however:
Same ol religious hatred by people of no faith. Careful non-believers, in a previous life, secularists who had the capacity, started packing up those of faith onto train cars and sending them off to gas chambers...
[+]
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-01-31 15:46:25
This, I'm ok with. I don't necessarily feel enmity is being directed toward me. The term "ignorance" is even coined in the conceptual insinuation of what "life would be like if we used religion as an excuse" but it was stated matter-of-factly instead of "in your face and aggressive".
It may mean nothing to the debate at hand, or the other posters, but i appreciate your etiquette.
It is a long article and discusses previous scientists (and problems today) who invoked a diety when they reached an unknown point in their research.
Quote: ...the authors invoke divinity only when they reach the boundaries of their understanding. They appeal to a higher power only when staring into the ocean of their own ignorance. They call on God only from the lonely and precarious edge of incomprehension. Where they feel certain about their explanations, however, God gets hardly a mention.
It's not so much ranting on religion as pointing out flawed reasoning by scientists. "I can't figure it out, therefore, no one can".
Not understanding something is not a bad thing. It's bad when you stop trying to understand that problem.
[+]
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-01-31 15:47:32
When I went to do the holy communion as a child and had to confess to the priest I didn't know what to say lol, he basically told me a few sins to confess and then assolved me, I didn't even speak lol. I remember making some up beforehand. So technically I left the confessional more sinful than when I went in.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-01-31 15:49:04
Incoming wall of text.
Quote: I don't "believe" there is a God. I KNOW there is a God. For me to refute this would be to defy logic, and I can't do that without lying to myself.
This has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read in this forum.
You don't -know- a damn thing. You have faith and by extension cannot know, only believe. If you knew it wouldn't be called faith. Also, it's not defying logic to refute that, you haven't provided and cannot provide one single, logical source of evidence as to why you -know- God is real. There is literally 0 logic whatsoever in your claim.
I wouldn't be so critical normally, but the quoted statement is a large part of what is wrong in the world today. Everyone doesn't believe, they KNOW their god is the one true god, without having to rely on things such as logic or evidence.
Now on to what I was originally going to post.
I am a staunch atheist. I have come to the conclusion that the god of the bible does not exist through literal interpretation. I don't believe in god, allah, vishnu, rainbow sparkle, zeus, Odin (sadly), or neptune. If requiring that someone trying to tell me how to live show me a logical reason as to why I should give an amount of f*cks greater than zero about anything they say makes me an evil soulless individual that atheists are often portrayed as where I'm from, then so be it. If that combined with the fact I want to pick the brain of every theist I meet for details and search for some kind of logical reason (which I've personally yet to find) they believe what they believe makes me a militant atheist, then I'm the most militant motherf*cker you'll ever meet.
I don't want to be thought of as someone simply bashing others beliefs because I can, so I will provide my personal beliefs so that others can poke and prod in the same manner I would do to anyone else.
I believe in the complete opposite of Buddhism. Buddhism is completely viable in my mind, but I think it's an easy out for the weak to take.
Buddhism teaches one to achieve perfect happiness through the elimination of suffering. Suffering is eliminated by removing desire. This makes logical sense to me as becoming detached from all things can make it so nothing can cause you to suffer through loss. You become unattached to everything and everything is equally unimportant to you, even suffering. When suffering is just another thing that means nothing, there's no difference between suffering and not suffering, it doesn't cause pain.
I know this can work because I see a similar effect whenever I hurt myself and suffer severe pain. Given a moment to collect myself, I can think away the pain by first asking myself why it hurts, followed by what it means to hurt, and finally, asking why should this pain stop me. This is similar the the loosely Buddhist idea of eliminating suffering by identifying the source of it, understanding it, and then eliminating the source of it. Doing this I have been able to walk and lift unimpeded with moderate to severe injuries, such as continuing to finish my squat routine with a slight compression fracture.
However, my view differs from Buddhism in that I do not view desire and suffering as something to be eliminated. I embrace the transitory nature of things and the idea that desire leads to suffering, but running away from suffering is cowardly to me. I cling to my ever growing desires because I want to, not out of ignorance. I'm fully aware that having so many and such powerful desires can cause intense suffering, but I take it in stride. To me, I love it all. The act of striving to do better at everything is my source of happiness. Failure, and by extension suffering, isn't the end of happiness, it's a spice that makes my successes even sweeter. I've made suffering a part of my happiness, serving much the same result as Buddhism in that I no longer suffer from my desire because suffering itself has become a state of happiness.
What I have a hard time putting into words though is when people see me angry, sad, or just upset and want to ask me how I can say I'm always happy. All I can say is I feel as if I'm watching myself from outside of myself while simultaneously living out what I'm watching. If I had to put it in a way that'd be easier for some to understand: Outwardly I display the signs of suffering, but inwardly I'm smiling like Laozi at a vinegar tasting. If given the chance to go back and change anything I wanted, I wouldn't change a single thing at all.
The most important belief I hold onto is that I believe satisfaction has no place in life. I can always do better, and if I thought I could not improve in some aspect I would immediately kill myself, because if you're not improving you might as well be dead. Striving for unobtainable perfection is the most perfect life one can live. Striving endlessly until death is the only life worth living to me.
That being said, not being satisfied ever doesn't mean you have to be an ungrateful ***. You can be thankful for what you have and still want more. So I will continue my happy life of unsatisfaction and striving for unattainable perfection until I die.
With the mindset I have, I suppose it's little wonder I have no love for religions that teach meekness or submission. That's not to say I wouldn't love if God were real. A real god would make me even happier. What better goal is there than to become better than the absolute? Striving for an eternity to best god himself is something I can only dream of however. Long ago I learned that wanting something to be true doesn't make it true, and not wanting something to be true doesn't make it any less true.
So that's my beliefs in a fairly condensed state. Come at me bros!
I agree with you in many aspects except for some parts. I interpret it as a way over prioritizing and overcoming the nature of "suffering" before dismissal. Our perceived "suffering" may be very selfish and trivial, and with internalization we can identify it as so. Thorough self-examination and completely honesty with yourself is not "weak" either.
To each their own interpretation, I suppose.
[+]
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-31 15:49:55
Warwick Davis Nausi in 10 minutes:
YouTube Video Placeholder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPxOUDsO328
Bahamut.Milamber
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-01-31 15:49:56
Well, we failed to prove Godwin wrong guys. We can all go home now.
Also, I petition that Kara and Milamber adopt me.
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 15:49:56
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Obama is not 100% black your argument is invalid.
Half black, half white, all nazi. I thought there was Muslim mixed in it.
So, half black, half white, half Muslim? Since, you know, he is more than just a man...
By fonewear 2014-01-31 15:51:11
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Obama is not 100% black your argument is invalid.
Half black, half white, all nazi. I thought there was Muslim mixed in it.
So, half black, half white, half Muslim? Since, you know, he is more than just a man...
One can not be half Muslim you have to be at least 51% to get elected.
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 15:51:48
"idea of eliminating suffering by identifying the source of it, understanding it, and then eliminating the source of it."
This is a philosophy I found on my own and I'm not Buddhist, just sayin'
Bahamut.Milamber
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-01-31 15:52:27
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Obama is not 100% black your argument is invalid.
Half black, half white, all nazi. I thought there was Muslim mixed in it.
So, half black, half white, half Muslim? Since, you know, he is more than just a man... 
[+]
By fonewear 2014-01-31 15:53:44
Well ***I'm 2% Native American and I'm still waiting for my casino.
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 15:54:10
Now we have moved to race-baiting?
Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-01-31 15:54:26
To listen to the OP, or not to listen to the OP. That is the question. There are other threads for off topic things is the point I'm trying to make.
It is a losing battle. I give you credit for trying to keep things on topic, but it was bound to fail.
That's exactly what I got from the OP.
Fenrir.Atheryn
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1665
By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-01-31 15:54:31
Now we have moved to race-baiting?
Si Senor.
Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-01-31 15:55:30
"idea of eliminating suffering by identifying the source of it, understanding it, and then eliminating the source of it."
This is a philosophy I found on my own and I'm not Buddhist, just sayin'
It's all the SAME! Now you're getting it.
You're conveniently glossing over compare and contrast.
By fonewear 2014-01-31 15:55:40
Now we have moved to race-baiting?
Are you trying to get Al Sharpton in here ?
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 15:57:21
To listen to the OP, or not to listen to the OP. That is the question. There are other threads for off topic things is the point I'm trying to make.
It is a losing battle. I give you credit for trying to keep things on topic, but it was bound to fail.
That's exactly what I got from the OP. First of all I am not Catholic, and second, you missed the part where I said no person has any right to judge and look down onto another person, this isn't about you vs me vs them vs they vs grammernazis vs etc....
Bahamut.Milamber
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-01-31 15:58:11
"idea of eliminating suffering by identifying the source of it, understanding it, and then eliminating the source of it."
This is a philosophy I found on my own and I'm not Buddhist, just sayin' Wow, way to basically kill your own argument better than anyone else in the entire thread, in two lines.
[+]
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-01-31 15:59:01
"idea of eliminating suffering by identifying the source of it, understanding it, and then eliminating the source of it."
eh. It's not about eliminating suffering, or even emotion, it's about being mindful enough to see the disturbance, feel it, & continue to let it wash over you. to not be a slave to the reactions the ego wants to bring forth.
so then the cessation of suffering can be thought of more as the non-reaction to said suffering, rather than the elimination of it.
[+]
Please note that I posted this in the "Politics and Religion" topic, so please no hateful or anti religion remarks or flame-wars.
This post is for my fellow Christians, but I welcome all who are not, but do have a genuine interest in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
I spent many years being a lukewarm Christian after I first accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and in the last year or so I have devoted myself to him and my life has changed for the better in ways I never imagined possible. and today in my studies I came across some informative websites that touched on some issues that have bothered me for some time now.
Here is the info from those websites.
Are You A Lukewarm Christian? 1. Lukewarm people attend church fairly regularly. It is what is expected of them, what they believe “good Christians” do, so they go. Isaiah 29:13
2. Lukewarm people give money to charity and to the church as long as it doesn’t impinge on their standard of living. If they have a little extra and it is easy and safe to give, they do so, After all, God loves a cheerful giver, right? 1 Chronicles 21:24, Luke 21:1-4
3. Lukewarm people tend to choose what is popular over what is right when they are in conflict. They desire to fit in both at church and outside of church; they care more about what people think of their actions (like church attendance and giving) than what God thinks of their hearts and lives. Luke 6:26, Revelation 3:1, Matthew 23:5-7 4.
4: Lukewarm people don’t really want to be saved from their sin; they want only to be saved from the penalty of their sin. They don’t genuinely hate sin and aren’t truly sorry for it; they’re merely sorry because God is going to punish them. Lukewarm people don’t really believe that this new life Jesus offers is better than the old sinful one. John 10:10, Romans 6:1-2.
5. Lukewarm people are moved by stories of people who do radical things for Christ, yet they do not act. They assume such action is for “extreme” Christians, not average ones. Lukewarm people call “radical” what Jesus expected of all His followers. James 1:22, James 4:17, Matthew 21:28-31
6. Lukewarm people rarely share their faith with their neighbors, coworkers, or friends. They do not want to be rejected, nor do they want to make people uncomfortable by talking about private issues like religion. Matthew 10:32-33
7. Lukewarm people gauge their morality or “goodness” by comparing themselves to the secular world. They feel satisfied that while they aren’t as hard-core for Jesus as so-and-so, they are nowhere as horrible as the guy down the street. Luke 18:11-12
8. Lukewarm people say they love Jesus, and He is, indeed, a part of their lives, their money, and their thoughts, but he isn’t allowed to control their lives. Luke 9:57-62
9. Lukewarm people love God, but they do not love Him all their heart, soul, and strength. They would be quick to assure you they try to love God that much, but that sort of total devotion isn’t really possible for the average person; its only for pastors and missionaries and radicals. Matthew 22:37-38
10. Lukewarm people love others but do not seek to love others as much as they love themselves. Their love for others is typically focused on those who love them in return, like family, friends, and other people they know and connect with. There is a little love left over for those who cannot love them back, much less for those who intentionally slight them, who kids are better athletes than theirs, or with whom conversations are awkward or uncomfortable. Their love is highly conditional and very selective, and generally comes with strings attached. Matthew 5:43-47, Luke 14:12-14
11. Lukewarm people will serve God and others, but there are limits to how far they will go or how much time, money, and energy they are willing to give. Luke 18:21-25
12. Lukewarm people think about life on earth much more often than eternity in heaven. Daily life is mostly focused on today’s to-do list, this week’s schedule, and next month’s vacation. Rarely, if ever do they intently consider the life to come. Philippians 3:18-20
13. Lukewarm people are thankful for their luxuries and comforts, and rarely consider trying to give as much as possible to the poor. Matthew 25:34, 40, Isaiah 58:6-7
14. Lukewarm people do whatever is necessary to keep themselves from feeling too guilty. They want to do the bare minimum, to be “good enough” without requiring too much of them. 1 Chronicles 29:14, Matthew 13:44-46
15. Lukewarm people are continually concerned with playing it safe; they are slaves to the god of control. This focus on safe living keeps them sacrificing and risking for God. Matthew 10:28
16. Lukewarm people feel secure because they attend church, made a profession of faith at age twelve, were baptized, come from a Christian family, vote Republican, or live in America.
17. Luke warm people do not live by faith; their lives are structured so they never have to. They don’t have to trust God if something unexpected happens-they have their savings account. They don’t need God to help them—they have their retirement plan in place. They don’t genuinely seek out what life God would have them live—they have life figured and mapped out. They don’t depend on God on a daily basis-their refrigerators are full and, for the most part, they are in good health. The truth is, their lives wouldn’t look much different if they suddenly stopped believing in God. Luke 12:16-21
18. Lukewarm people probably drink and swear less than average, but besides that, they really aren’t very different from your typical unbeliever. They equate their partially sanitized lives with holiness, but they couldn’t be more wrong. Matthew 23:25-28, Luke 14:34-35
Source: http://chrismarlow.me/2008/06/are-you-a-lukewarm-christian/
Bible Verses about lukewarm Christians: Revelation 3:15-16 ESV / 495 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:14-22 ESV / 298 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
1 John 2:15-16 ESV / 220 helpful votes
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Matthew 12:30 ESV / 134 helpful votes
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Matthew 5:13 ESV / 130 helpful votes
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
James 3:10-12 ESV / 94 helpful votes
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.
2 Timothy 4:3 ESV / 76 helpful votes
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 ESV / 69 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”
Matthew 16:26 ESV / 67 helpful votes
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
1 John 3:10 ESV / 63 helpful votes
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Matthew 12:33-37 ESV / 51 helpful votes
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
1 Peter 3:15 ESV / 46 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
2 Timothy 3:4 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 40 helpful votes
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
Revelation 1:3 ESV / 39 helpful votes
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.
Deuteronomy 30:19 ESV / 37 helpful votes
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Revelation 3:14-19 ESV / 33 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
John 14:6 ESV / 29 helpful votes
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Mark 13:35-36 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
Hebrews 12:7 ESV / 26 helpful votes
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Romans 12:1 ESV / 25 helpful votes
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Matthew 28:19 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Revelation 3:16 ESV / 24 helpful votes
So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Philippians 4:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Matthew 10:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.
Revelation 21:7 ESV / 18 helpful votes
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Romans 7:24 ESV / 18 helpful votes
Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Revelation 12:11 ESV / 17 helpful votes
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
Colossians 2:12 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 ESV / 16 helpful votes
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 1:1-32 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,
Matthew 18:3 ESV / 15 helpful votes
And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21 ESV / 15 helpful votes
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Psalm 118:1-18 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever! Let Israel say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let the house of Aaron say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let those who fear the Lord say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free.
Matthew 18:10 ESV / 14 helpful votes
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Jeremiah 10:5 ESV / 14 helpful votes
Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”
Colossians 1:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Luke 18:8 ESV / 13 helpful votes
I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
Zechariah 14:12 ESV / 13 helpful votes
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
Revelation 2:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
James 4:17 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
James 1:6 ESV / 12 helpful votes
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Luke 17:30 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Mark 11:1-33 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples and said to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately as you enter it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has ever sat. Untie it and bring it. If anyone says to you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ say, ‘The Lord has need of it and will send it back here immediately.’” And they went away and found a colt tied at a door outside in the street, and they untied it. And some of those standing there said to them, “What are you doing, untying the colt?”
Matthew 28:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
1 John 2:27 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Revelation 3:15 ESV / 10 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
John 3:1-36 ESV / 10 helpful votes
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
2 Timothy 1:7 ESV / 9 helpful votes
For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
Luke 17:1-2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
Helpful Not Helpful
John 15:5-6 ESV / 8 helpful votes
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
source: http://www.openbible.info/topics/lukewarm_christians
Another thing that seems to be left out these days is the teaching of what repentance is. Is asking for forgiveness without repenting really meaningful? To truly mean it is to repent from that sin, to repent is to turn away from it, not because of the consequences but because of a genuine disdain for sin. To repent and then turn back to the same sin again is like a dog eating its own vomit just to become sick all over again...
|
|
