Are You A Lukewarm Christian?

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Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-31 14:09:57  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wrong again Jassik. I believe in the Big Bang and any scientist that also does tell you that they have no explanation for the big bang or anything that would have been before the big bang to bang in the first place. The theory is that Universes spring up from nowhere and from nothing. The Big Bang is a moment of creation, something from nothing like I said all along. It is illogical. You agree with me stop arguing.
You don't understand the Big Bang theory then. It doesn't attempt to explain creation nor is it concerned with anything prior to t(time)=0. It attempts to explain all moments from t>0.
Seriously though Pleeb. How does your shitpost get 4 +'s lol. I think people a little biased around here lol

TELL ME HOW YOU REALLY FEEL GUYS (hypocrites)
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 14:10:11  
Can't we all agree to disagree?

And that we need a few more Crusades.
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 Bahamut.Eorphere
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By Bahamut.Eorphere 2014-01-31 14:11:59  
Very interesting thread (a lot of anyway). Something I want to throw out there that I discussed awhile back in a couple of my Philosophy classes is the claim that an infinite regress is logically possible.

Thinking about it often, even years after those classes, what my thoughts always settle upon is this idea, which I suppose is more mathematical of nature:

Any time I walk from point A to point B, it seems that I am doing an infinite amount of things in a finite amount of time. Given that there are an infinite number of halfway points between A and B, I reached them all.

Granted, it may not be true that there are an infinite amount of physical halfway points (or are there?).

As interested as I am in these sorts of notions, I should have went into Science instead of Philosophy. But I didn't, so I understand a lot less than I would like to on the matter. Either way, going back to the "something from nothing" or "first cause" arguments, I guess it is tough for me that there must have been a first cause because of the example I have given (though I do admit, this is very hard to grasp, and I have no firm beliefs either way).
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 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2014-01-31 14:12:40  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Ashman said:
A "real" atheist wouldn't even care to go insofar as to say "i don't have religion". They're the type of people who aren't even posting right now. The type of person who would even readily label themselves an atheist usually had "their no-no spot" touched by religion or adopted a way of thinking that reflected being anti-religion. Regardless of charizard's anecdote about 1 atheist meeting with "old jews" the majority of people who call themselves are young and impressionable college agers. The older generation just doesn't give a ***unless you stand to become more popular by your mudslinging (like that Gervais fella who made a movie that he thought was funny and then started to ride the wave of popularity afterwards). The young "atheists" are they type of people who would smoke to spite their parents. They'd embellish a story to get attention. If "atheism" were as simple as "people who disbewhateverjetcalls it" there wouldn't be a word for it, right? It would just be "normal people" or "non believers". The fact that there's a whole system of beliefs or "club" for them to be in makes them just as much sheep as they imply a religious person is. This is contradictory to the "cool kid" mask they're trying to wear. Since they're not the theist-neutral they claim to be, they get full on mad when you imply they share anything with someone of faith.
This is probably the most uneducated bile I've ever read on this site. Props to you Ash for lowering the bar. Pro-tip: Atheism is a term coined a long time ago, used as an insult. People took it up willfully as a moniker in the 18th century.

It's not though lol. I don't call myself and people like me "infidels" to spite muslims. I don't say I'm "goy" to spite jews. I don't call myself "filthy breeder", or "patriarchal misogynistic oppressor", or "honky white devil". Please, explain to me why is it that you feel the need to let everyone know you're atheist if not to A) somehow spite someone religious, B) get noticed by cool-guy atheist senpai. If theists are so dumb and UNEDUMACATED, why don't you just say "i'm normal" or "i'm not religious"?


Because you have to have a word for the club. Because it's not atheist neutral as you claimed, it's atheist aggressive. It's cool these days, that's fine. Just don't act (or imply i'm wrong) like you're completely apathetic to the religion.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-01-31 14:12:49  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wrong again Jassik. I believe in the Big Bang and any scientist that also does tell you that they have no explanation for the big bang or anything that would have been before the big bang to bang in the first place. The theory is that Universes spring up from nowhere and from nothing. The Big Bang is a moment of creation, something from nothing like I said all along. It is illogical. You agree with me stop arguing.
You don't understand the Big Bang theory then. It doesn't attempt to explain creation nor is it concerned with anything prior to t(time)=0. It attempts to explain all moments from t>0.

To refer to the big bang as though nearly all secularists DON'T point to it as evidence that it disproves the existence of god is naive.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-01-31 14:13:49  
You don't understand it because you keep using the phrase "something from nothing". The theory doesn't presume creation as something from nothing but "creation" the evolution of the current physical reality as a natural consequence of the rapid expansion of a singularity.

Edit: Replacing that word to avoid it being used as a point of argument
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 14:14:03  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Can't we all agree to disagree?

And that we need a few more Crusades.

On the Internet nothing ever gets resolved people just get bored and move on.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-31 14:14:06  
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
A "real" atheist wouldn't even care to go insofar as to say "i don't have religion".

What is a "real" Atheist?
What is a "real" Christian?

You're no-true scotsmanning here. There is no true anything, just labels and actions.

Quote:
They're the type of people who aren't even posting right now. The type of person who would even readily label themselves an atheist usually had "their no-no spot" touched by religion or adopted a way of thinking that reflected being anti-religion.

So people shouldn't speak up about their feelings? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The only reason you're even mildly disgruntled about vocal atheists is because it yet again challenges your entrenched beliefs. Your comfortable little bubble is being poked by those pesky children and like any annoyed human you can't help but gripe about it.

Atheists have nothing to gain by keeping silent. Leaving religion to its own devices guarantees nothing but a return to the type of discrimination, oppression and violence that plagued Europe and America and still plagues many parts of the world today. Nausi's pathetic attempt to malign Jewish genocide with atheists is actually an excercise in hundreds of years of Jewish oppression caused by? You guessed it, religion. Those Jesus murdering scumbags. Let them handle money, that evil paper.

Right as the sun rises every day, it wouldn't be long before theists want their Christian utopia free of the disgusting filth that are nonbelievers. Any theists who disagree are free to leave with the filth or face severe punishment.

Open a book. Look at the news. Read some history. You may be old but that's no excuse to be such an ignoramus on the topic.

Quote:
Regardless of charizard's anecdote about 1 atheist meeting with "old jews" the majority of people who call themselves are young and impressionable college agers. The older generation just doesn't give a ***unless you stand to become more popular by your mudslinging (like that Gervais fella who made a movie that he thought was funny and then started to ride the wave of popularity afterwards). The young "atheists" are they type of people who would smoke to spite their parents. They'd embellish a story to get attention. If "atheism" were as simple as "people who disbewhateverjetcalls it" there wouldn't be a word for it, right? It would just be "normal people" or "non believers". The fact that there's a whole system of beliefs or "club" for them to be in makes them just as much sheep as they imply a religious person is. This is contradictory to the "cool kid" mask they're trying to wear. Since they're not the theist-neutral they claim to be, they get full on mad when you imply they share anything with someone of faith.

And these college-agers are free to think for themselves. Some might eventually become religious, some might remain neutral and others will go on to be vocal atheists. I don't see what your ranting against young people has to do with the idea of letting people think for themselves. You're a free market guy yet you seem to have a big problem with letting people peddle their ideas and leaving it to the consumer to decide.

Seems you want atheists to be silent because religion (as it's peddled wholesale) has some gaping flaws in its design. Flaws routinely called out by anyone with passing interest in the topic.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-01-31 14:17:20  
Why do people give so much importance to labels? They're merely a mean to simplify communication. Not everyone identifies with them dissolving their persona into a generic group.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-01-31 14:19:16  
Call it a shitpost if you want but your grasp of the current scientific discourse is pretty shaky, which would be fine if you could admit as much. But no, you have to be obstinate even in the face of substantiated evidence or even common knowledge and your Hail Mary play is almost always semantics (which is where I anticipate this is headed).
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-01-31 14:20:04  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wrong again Jassik. I believe in the Big Bang and any scientist that also does tell you that they have no explanation for the big bang or anything that would have been before the big bang to bang in the first place. The theory is that Universes spring up from nowhere and from nothing. The Big Bang is a moment of creation, something from nothing like I said all along. It is illogical. You agree with me stop arguing.
You don't understand the Big Bang theory then. It doesn't attempt to explain creation nor is it concerned with anything prior to t(time)=0. It attempts to explain all moments from t>0.

To refer to the big bang as though nearly all secularists DON'T point to it as evidence that it disproves the existence of god is naive.
Where did I *** say anything like that? If someone wants to use the theory as proof of anything other than what it actually states, then they are just as wrong about that too.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-01-31 14:20:34  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
I think people a little biased around here lol

towards the truth, when it's obvious, yeah.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-31 14:21:27  
Still waiting on how you arrive at Christian God from 'Something must have caused the Big Bang' It's a huge leap in logic with zero evidence behind it.

Again, the entire universe could be some alien child ant farm equivalent or a computer simulation. Both would be gods by our definition but not the god you choose to worship. Prove me wrong.

I have no evidence but I'll just shoulder the burden of proof onto you. Outsourced!
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-01-31 14:22:34  
Ashman said:
It's not though lol. I don't call myself and people like me "infidels" to spite muslims. I don't say I'm "goy" to spite jews. I don't call myself "filthy breeder", or "patriarchal misogynistic oppressor", or "honky white devil". Please, explain to me why is it that you feel the need to let everyone know you're atheist if not to A) somehow spite someone religious, B) get noticed by cool-guy atheist senpai. If theists are so dumb and UNEDUMACATED, why don't you just say "i'm normal" or "i'm not religious"?
Easy answer: theists are the majority, and classify themselves as normal, while non-believers are considered the abnormal. There shouldn't be a word for it, you're right. But that's the situation. Outside of that, those are the words used to describe an idea. Heaven forbid someone extrapolates upon an existing term to better encompass the changing times.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-31 14:25:30  
Plenty of educated theists out there, sadly this thread has zero.

I think I said it no less than three times that many of the most influential people in our recorded history were theists, had their beliefs and most often put their beliefs to the test when challenged. Many of them didn't cling to blind faith like morons, they regularly updated their beliefs to adjust for new data.

Now I still disagree with some of their output but life is dynamic and so should beliefs. If you have no grasp of history and have been completely indoctrinated by your pathetic ego defense mechanism designed to avoid of having to confront the trauma of maybe being wrong then so be it.

Don't attempt to lump yourself in with theists who did the work and actually processed what others had to say though.
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-31 14:25:45  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Call it a shitpost if you want but your grasp of the current scientific discourse is pretty shaky, which would be fine if you could admit as much. But no, you have to be obstinate even in the face of substantiated evidence or even common knowledge and your Hail Mary play is almost always semantics (which is where I anticipate this is headed).

You agreed with what I said, you just stated it differently then concluded that you disagree with me. If you say T=0 then there is not time before it. It is an origin. The big bang did not occur in space, it created space and all the energy within. Don't gotta dog me when you agree. I know it doesn't feel natural to you.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-01-31 14:26:07  
fonewear said: »
kara said:
I'd like to know why people chose this (or whichever) specific religion. Why a monotheistic religion and not a polytheistic religion?

That is good question that probably won't get answered here. Lack of caring maybe ? Not informed enough on other religions. I'm not sure.

What do you think Kara ?

Several reasons:
1. I don't think most people look beyond their own upbringing, the culture that is normal to them.
2. It may provide them with comfort that something new or different does not since they may not "fit in" automatically.
3. There is also a stigma associated with belief systems outside the large modern religions. Even switching between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam can create a lot of friction between families/friends/co-workers.
4. Older religions also had stronger female deities (Ishtar/Inanna was kickass) which don't exist anymore in most modern religions.
5. People tend to look at past civilizations as stupid or quaint, and this includes those belief systems.


My two cents: I like looking at history and some of the most interesting aspects deal in "old" religions. Babylonian, Sumarian, Egyptian, Norse, Roman, Greek, etc. It is also interesting to see the overlap in the Gods/Goddesses and the fables, then compare them to modern religions. But I'm odd and I like going to history museums when traveling
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-31 14:27:47  
Siren.Mosin said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
I think people a little biased around here lol

towards the truth, when it's obvious, yeah.

truth is a bold word especially when discussing something called the big bang THEORY
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-31 14:28:17  
it isn't the moment of creation, it is the rapid expansion of matter and space from an infinite singularity. all that exists also existed at that moment. creation is a different concept which is generally reserved for religion. the tenants of physics are such that matter cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change form.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-01-31 14:28:19  
Theory of gravity
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-01-31 14:28:43  
Bahamut.Eorphere said: »

Any time I walk from point A to point B, it seems that I am doing an infinite amount of things in a finite amount of time. Given that there are an infinite number of halfway points between A and B, I reached them all.

Granted, it may not be true that there are an infinite amount of physical halfway points (or are there?).
Essentially, Zeno's Paradoxes.
Part of that has to do with mixing discrete and continuous domains, for a lack of a better way of describing it. If you want to read more about how such things are solved mathematically, there are quite a few sources.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-31 14:29:28  
you are confusing theory with hypothesis, scientists don't use those words interchangeably.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-01-31 14:29:31  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
truth is a bold word especially when discussing something called the big bang THEORY

we were discussing today's scientific view of said theory, not our personal interpretations of it...
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-01-31 14:30:41  
Oh hey, semantics. Called it!
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 14:30:52  
You know, I generally agree with anything Amand would say.

But I think that will no longer be the case.

Please do not reflect his thoughts as ideas that I agree with automatically...
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-01-31 14:32:35  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Please do not reflect his thoughts as ideas that I agree with automatically
You weren't even in this conversation, did someone point a light at you and made you jump off your chair?
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 14:35:08  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Please do not reflect his thoughts as ideas that I agree with automatically
You weren't even in this conversation, did someone point a light at you and made you jump off your chair?
I'm part of that "neo-con" crowd that several posters have labeled Nausi, Amand and myself.

I never tried to correct it before today because I generally agreed with them. Now, this thread has opened my eyes at how blind Amand and Nausi is.

So, I wish to not be considered part of the "neo-con" crowd, just have my own viewpoints that are similar but separate from them.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-31 14:36:18  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Several reasons:
1. I don't think most people look beyond their own upbringing, the culture that is normal to them.
2. It may provide them with comfort that something new or different does not since they may not "fit in" automatically.
3. There is also a stigma associated with belief systems outside the large modern religions. Even switching between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam can create a lot of friction between families/friends/co-workers.
4. Older religions also had stronger female deities (Ishtar/Inanna was kickass) which don't exist anymore in most modern religions.
5. People tend to look at past civilizations as stupid or quaint, and this includes those belief systems.


My two cents: I like looking at history and some of the most interesting aspects deal in "old" religions. Babylonian, Sumarian, Egyptian, Norse, Roman, Greek, etc. It is also interesting to see the overlap in the Gods/Goddesses and the fables, then compare them to modern religions. But I'm odd and I like going to history museums when traveling

Ancient religions are fascinating to study. Watching many of the same concepts evolve over time through cultural interactions, borrowing, warfare, traditions that fell out of favor and the rise/fall of empire backing the religion tells a fascinating tale where like everything else on this planet, religion must evolve or fall to the wayside.

Mesoamerican religions really don't get the attention they deserve in addition to the myths of lesser known people in Africa and Southeast Asia. So much of a culture is distilled into its religious beliefs even if you don't "believe" in them.

Mythology is just plain fun.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-01-31 14:37:59  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Mythology is just plain fun.
THIS!
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-31 14:38:28  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Theory of gravity

gravity is a theory. there are different concepts of what it actually is.
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