Mommy I Want Plus Size Barbie

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Mommy I Want Plus Size Barbie
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-28 21:26:29  
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
10-14 is not necessarily a "Healthy" weight or size. Depending on someone's build/ethnicity, size 4 or size 14 might be more realistic. That said, even though unrealistically skinny Barbie's may create body image issues in children, a plus-size Barbie creates the idea that being grossly overweight is acceptable. Being overweight causes major health issues throughout a person's life, and neither is the lesser evil. Instead of focusing on Barbie's waistline, we should be focusing on teaching children good eating habits and encouraging regular exercise.

Just because most of your peers are overweight doesn't make it ok.

And who defines "overweight" and "healthy"? I can assure you it's societal norms not a primary care physician.

Just because most of your peers think you're overweight doesn't make it OK. America's definition of overweight is incredibly inaccurate.

Who defines overweight? You really need to step outside the "who says big isn't beautiful" daytime TV crap and look at the actual medical literature available.

The american dietetic association defines ideal body weight with the formula:

For males, 106 lbs for the first 60" and 6 lbs per inch over.

For females, 100 lbs for the first 60" and 5 lbs per inch over.

Plus or minus 10% to account for differing body types.

So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

The american medical association clearly defines overweight and obese and clearly outlines the realistic health effects of being overweight or obese for a period of time.

This has nothing to do with body image or the media pushing a particular shape down our throats, it's directly tied to what an actual healthy body weight is.
 Sylph.Mirvana
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-12-28 22:05:03  
Another problem is that "overweight" is not synonymous with "obese" as too many folks use them interchangeably.
Overweight strictly refers to simply weight. Medically, I should weigh 110-130. I weigh 140. I am therefore overweight
Obese is an overabundance of adipose (fat). I should have body fat of ~20%. Mine is 35%. I am Obese

As to the G.I.Joe bit, you likely won't get completely discharged just for having some extra pounds. However, a G.I.Joe doll is often an ground-soldier infantryman, which you like WON'T be allowed to be if you grab too many cookies at the mess hall.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2013-12-28 22:14:22  
welcome to FFXIAH where we use the almighty maths to break down any pointless debate.
 Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2013-12-28 22:14:59  
if you like your maths, you can keep it.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-28 22:16:18  
Overweight means you're above the ideal weight range for your height

Obese means you are over 30% BMI

"chubby" "fat" or whatever rude thing kids say on the playground has nothing to do with what are exacting medical terms.
 
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-28 22:29:35  
Asura.Squishytaru said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

Unfortunately the AMAs body mass index page is missing, but they do link to one on the CDC. Which does not seem to differentiate between genders. It does however differentiate between teens and adults.

CDC said:
Height: 5 feet, 5 inches
Weight: 125 pounds

Your BMI is 20.8, indicating your weight is in the Normal category for adults of your height.

For your height, a normal weight range would be from 111 to 150 pounds.

Quote:
BMI
Weight Status
Below 18.5 Underweight
18.5—24.9 Normal
25.0—29.9 Overweight
30.0 and Above Obese

So 150 is 1lb overweight.

I can't seem to find the official weight charts either. The formulas I posted are the standard set by the American Dietetic Association and endorsed by the AMA and CDC. My mother is a RD and consultant, I can see if she has any more official releases I can link, but you have the correct information.

It's not an issue of body image, it's an issue of public health. Just because a large number of Americans are overweight doesn't mean there should be a push to make it more acceptable, the push should be to address the issue and the health concerns related.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-12-28 22:38:39  
Asura.Squishytaru said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

Unfortunately the AMAs body mass index page is missing, but they do link to one on the CDC. Which does not seem to differentiate between genders. It does however differentiate between teens and adults.

CDC said:
Height: 5 feet, 5 inches
Weight: 125 pounds

Your BMI is 20.8, indicating your weight is in the Normal category for adults of your height.

For your height, a normal weight range would be from 111 to 150 pounds.

Quote:
BMI
Weight Status
Below 18.5 Underweight
18.5—24.9 Normal
25.0—29.9 Overweight
30.0 and Above Obese

So 150 is 1lb overweight.

BMI says I'm overweight lol; ***chart
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-28 22:48:00  
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Holy sh!t ya'lls responses are gold. My current GF fits into a size 0~1, my past three GF's have all been size 0~2. Fat acceptance is utter bullsh!t, I like who and what I like and no amount of liberal shaming will change that. I like fit, sexy feminine girls who's gut is non-existent. Preferably athletic and toned but slim and petite will do the trick. I absolutely refuse to allow someone to try to bullsh!t me into thinking a f*cking size 10~12 is a "healthy body image" is. Girl needs to put down the ben & jerry's and go hit the gym or do easy homy exercises.

I found the best way to deal with fat people was to ignore their existence. A girl who's overweight is invisible to me, there are plenty of other options available.
 Bismarck.Bloodbathboy
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By Bismarck.Bloodbathboy 2013-12-28 23:01:54  
I am way over weight myself Tiger, lol.
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 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-12-28 23:05:28  
Doctors are taught that the BMI scale has its flaws, including people have large amount of muscle etc, the thing is that these people are actually the minority, and a large chunk of medicine works backwards from studying correlation and such rather than going straight for understanding mechanisms. Using the BMI scale is no different (compare, say, serum creatinine levels, similar thing there). So, yes, the BMI scale is a legitimate chart, and those of you here that are considered "obese" because you are muscular obviously won't get a frown from your doctors because they have the common sense to just look at you and go "oh, this guy is ripped". Obviously body fat % is more accurate but from a public health perspective BMI is easier for people to reference.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-12-28 23:11:33  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Holy sh!t ya'lls responses are gold. My current GF fits into a size 0~1, my past three GF's have all been size 0~2. Fat acceptance is utter bullsh!t, I like who and what I like and no amount of liberal shaming will change that. I like fit, sexy feminine girls who's gut is non-existent. Preferably athletic and toned but slim and petite will do the trick. I absolutely refuse to allow someone to try to bullsh!t me into thinking a f*cking size 10~12 is a "healthy body image" is. Girl needs to put down the ben & jerry's and go hit the gym or do easy homy exercises.

I found the best way to deal with fat people was to ignore their existence. A girl who's overweight is invisible to me, there are plenty of other options available.

Just wow. were you not afraid you'd break them? >.>
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-12-28 23:14:48  
Anyone else curious to see a picture of Saevel after a post like that?
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-28 23:15:03  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Who defines overweight? You really need to step outside the "who says big isn't beautiful" daytime TV crap and look at the actual medical literature available.

The american dietetic association defines ideal body weight with the formula:

For males, 106 lbs for the first 60" and 6 lbs per inch over.

For females, 100 lbs for the first 60" and 5 lbs per inch over.

Plus or minus 10% to account for differing body types.

So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

The american medical association clearly defines overweight and obese and clearly outlines the realistic health effects of being overweight or obese for a period of time.

This has nothing to do with body image or the media pushing a particular shape down our throats, it's directly tied to what an actual healthy body weight is.
You seem to be under the gross misapprehension that overweight is the same thing as obesity and, more to the point, that mere weight is an indicator of health. It sure isn't.

Lots of words to follow.

It's really convenient to use weight as a boogeyman. Convenient, but wrong. If we need a one-stop-figure by which to measure personal health and detriment to society (especially as we work to join the rest of the civilized world and socialize medical care), it should be activity level. I wonder where 'net-dwelling, MMO-playing, pizza-eating nerds will fall on that scale. My fat *** bikes through snow and ice, but if we rely on my height-to-weight ratio, I guess I'll have severe diabetes, dangerous cholesterol, and colon cancer by the end of the week.
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By dedrummer000 2013-12-28 23:18:16  
why do i have the general feeling that the people saying the BMI system is flawed and isnt accurate, and trying to defend plus size people, are plus sized themselves? lol stop tryin to defend the group your in to make yourself feel more attractive.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-12-28 23:21:14  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: »
Anyone else curious to see a picture of Saevel after a post like that?

Not particularly, being size 0 doesn't mean their attractive, it means they are clinically underweight, so I'm not sure if that's actually bragging or not.

Besides his personal opinion is he doesn't like the contents of this forum because he feels it makes his life choices appear wrong, if he doesn't like that I suggest not reading this forum as it is a review of what is "clinically healthy" if he doesn't like the world wide consensus people who are size 0 and average height are clinically underweight well then.

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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-12-28 23:23:32  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Who defines overweight? You really need to step outside the "who says big isn't beautiful" daytime TV crap and look at the actual medical literature available.

The american dietetic association defines ideal body weight with the formula:

For males, 106 lbs for the first 60" and 6 lbs per inch over.

For females, 100 lbs for the first 60" and 5 lbs per inch over.

Plus or minus 10% to account for differing body types.

So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

The american medical association clearly defines overweight and obese and clearly outlines the realistic health effects of being overweight or obese for a period of time.

This has nothing to do with body image or the media pushing a particular shape down our throats, it's directly tied to what an actual healthy body weight is.
You seem to be under the gross misapprehension that overweight is the same thing as obesity and, more to the point, that mere weight is an indicator of health. It sure isn't.

Lots of words to follow.

It's really convenient to use weight as a boogeyman. Convenient, but wrong. If we need a one-stop-figure by which to measure personal health and detriment to society (especially as we work to join the rest of the civilized world and socialize medical care), it should be activity level. I wonder where 'net-dwelling, MMO-playing, pizza-eating nerds will fall on that scale. My fat *** bikes through snow and ice, but if we rely on my height-to-weight ratio, I guess I'll have severe diabetes, dangerous cholesterol, and colon cancer by the end of the week.

Being "overweight" is clinically proven to cause health issues, but not in 100% of all people, just like smoking will give some people cancer but not all.

Just for the record, I am a vastly underweight 20 something and do not consider myself particularly healthy.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-28 23:23:33  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
I found the best way to deal with fat people was to ignore their existence. A girl who's overweight is invisible to me, there are plenty of other options available.
Being that small is generally analogous to being prepubescent. Women need fat for growing babies. Our cultural obsession, as so aptly personified by you, with insanely skinny women is a poorly-concealed form of pedophilia. It's part of why women are made to remove body hair, too.

By the way, women with actual muscle are not going to fit into a size 0. It's bones and organs at that point. Few men appreciate a woman who can kick their ***, anyhow.

That pretty much goes for people who like insanely skinny men, too. It's either a clear sign of ill health or adolescence to be able to wear skinny jeans the way that Calvin Klein wants them to be worn. I live near a university and I see the incredibly small freshmen boys every autumn. I kinda want to get their Facebook name or something just to see what happens in two years when their bodies finally transition to adulthood.
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By Jetackuu 2013-12-28 23:40:46  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Holy sh!t ya'lls responses are gold. My current GF fits into a size 0~1, my past three GF's have all been size 0~2. Fat acceptance is utter bullsh!t, I like who and what I like and no amount of liberal shaming will change that. I like fit, sexy feminine girls who's gut is non-existent. Preferably athletic and toned but slim and petite will do the trick. I absolutely refuse to allow someone to try to bullsh!t me into thinking a f*cking size 10~12 is a "healthy body image" is. Girl needs to put down the ben & jerry's and go hit the gym or do easy homy exercises.

I found the best way to deal with fat people was to ignore their existence. A girl who's overweight is invisible to me, there are plenty of other options available.
thanks for proving what we already knew about you there guy.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-12-28 23:41:38  
dedrummer000 said: »
why do i have the general feeling that the people saying the BMI system is flawed and isnt accurate, and trying to defend plus size people, are plus sized themselves? lol stop tryin to defend the group your in to make yourself feel more attractive.
BMI has me at overweight at the time these were taken;



and Bloodbath makes me look like I haven't worked out a day in my life and BMI probably has him as obese.
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By Jetackuu 2013-12-28 23:42:35  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
I found the best way to deal with fat people was to ignore their existence. A girl who's overweight is invisible to me, there are plenty of other options available.
Being that small is generally analogous to being prepubescent. Women need fat for growing babies. Our cultural obsession, as so aptly personified by you, with insanely skinny women is a poorly-concealed form of pedophilia. It's part of why women are made to remove body hair, too.

By the way, women with actual muscle are not going to fit into a size 0. It's bones and organs at that point. Few men appreciate a woman who can kick their ***, anyhow.

That pretty much goes for people who like insanely skinny men, too. It's either a clear sign of ill health or adolescence to be able to wear skinny jeans the way that Calvin Klein wants them to be worn. I live near a university and I see the incredibly small freshmen boys every autumn. I kinda want to get their Facebook name or something just to see what happens in two years when their bodies finally transition to adulthood.
After giving it some thought, I'm inclined to agree. Although I don't have an issue with people being attracted to younger people.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-12-28 23:43:15  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
ew men appreciate a woman who can kick their ***, anyhow.
Girls that lift are the best!
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By Jetackuu 2013-12-28 23:43:26  
bmi is a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE scale, and also had the governator as obese (during his body building days).
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-12-28 23:45:36  
Onorgul a lot of what you posted mostly comes off similar to if a smoker said "I never got lung cancer", I'm sure you see the obvious flaw. It's possible that your particular genetics/body build/etc has led to adipose tissue not being as big a detriment to you, but that doesn't mean that's how the policy should be.

Quote:
Weight is a shitty indicator of health. Period.

I agree that weight should not be taken on its own, but I still think it should be used in public health policies. You're making the mistake of thinking that doctors are responsible for the social manifestation of a public health policy (IE if they say "X weight is almost certainly healthy" then jackasses will assume "this guy is >X weight, he must be unhealthy"). It's certainly not unimportant because mental health is a big deal, but usually when they're just trying to be objective it still comes down to numbers and going with whatever is utilitarian.

Quote:
Half the crap we're told is caused by weight actually isn't, either. Diabetes and heart disease in particular are not easily predicted by being overweight.

There is no scientific basis for diabetes being directly caused by weight and the correlation may certainly be incidental (since overweight people spike their insulin way more), but any understanding of the mechanism beyond that is almost completely scientific and doesn't really apply to humans until we figure out how to create Star Trek replicators that can create delicious food that isn't stuffed full of carbohydrates and fat.

I assume you also mean atherosclerosis, which is heavily associated with blood triglyceride levels and LDL/HDL levels/ratios. There's certainly lots of controversy going on but just going by the mechanism through which atherosclerotic plaques form it just doesn't seem logical to dismiss weight as a massive risk factor, at least as far as public health goes. (Obviously you don't have to be fat to have high blood test numbers but being fat certainly increases the odds of that)

Quote:
If we need a one-stop-figure by which to measure personal health and detriment to society (especially as we work to join the rest of the civilized world and socialize medical care), it should be activity level.

Ideally, you would use both (which is what medical professionals do anyway, alongside a bunch of other things). The flaws in measuring activity level are:
1. Patients are lazy, and thus
2. Patients lie
If a guy could improve his health by losing weight and increasing activity, I'd certainly tell him his weight is a factor so he's more inclined to do at least one of those things, and it's not like that'd be a lie.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-28 23:46:33  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Who defines overweight? You really need to step outside the "who says big isn't beautiful" daytime TV crap and look at the actual medical literature available.

The american dietetic association defines ideal body weight with the formula:

For males, 106 lbs for the first 60" and 6 lbs per inch over.

For females, 100 lbs for the first 60" and 5 lbs per inch over.

Plus or minus 10% to account for differing body types.

So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

The american medical association clearly defines overweight and obese and clearly outlines the realistic health effects of being overweight or obese for a period of time.

This has nothing to do with body image or the media pushing a particular shape down our throats, it's directly tied to what an actual healthy body weight is.
You seem to be under the gross misapprehension that overweight is the same thing as obesity and, more to the point, that mere weight is an indicator of health. It sure isn't.

Lots of words to follow.

It's really convenient to use weight as a boogeyman. Convenient, but wrong. If we need a one-stop-figure by which to measure personal health and detriment to society (especially as we work to join the rest of the civilized world and socialize medical care), it should be activity level. I wonder where 'net-dwelling, MMO-playing, pizza-eating nerds will fall on that scale. My fat *** bikes through snow and ice, but if we rely on my height-to-weight ratio, I guess I'll have severe diabetes, dangerous cholesterol, and colon cancer by the end of the week.


Try re-reading my posts, I clarified the actual definitions of the terms being used. I am not under any "misapprehensions" at all. As I said, my mother is a RD, I've spent my entire life surrounded by a wealth of medical and dietary information. The VAST majority of people who are outside of their ideal weight range are not athletic or muscular, they are sedentary and flabby. I could have come out of the gate saying something overly offensive, but the point of my posts is that people are focusing on people's feelings about weight and not what the actual medical implications of that weight are.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-29 01:50:46  
Haha and the shaming begins.

Size 0~1 isn't unhealthy if the girl is 5'2 and 44kg. Size's in the USA are deliberately knocked down a few numbers to make them seem smaller then they are. Hambeasts hate the idea that their poor lifestyle choices have resulted in them being grotesquely overweight and simply unattractive. Instead they'll try to demand everyone else change the definition of attractive to include them. Being overweight is a sign of laziness and the refusal to take personal responsibility for your health and attractiveness.

And if that piss's some SJW's off, good. Means the problem is the fat person not the world.

Oh and the better indicator is height to waist ratio. I'm 5'11 195 lbs and 0.45 ratio. I lift three times a week and try to control my diet. The BMI charts always assume a sedate lifestyle which is why it doesn't take into account those who lift.
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-29 02:57:53  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
10-14 is not necessarily a "Healthy" weight or size. Depending on someone's build/ethnicity, size 4 or size 14 might be more realistic. That said, even though unrealistically skinny Barbie's may create body image issues in children, a plus-size Barbie creates the idea that being grossly overweight is acceptable. Being overweight causes major health issues throughout a person's life, and neither is the lesser evil. Instead of focusing on Barbie's waistline, we should be focusing on teaching children good eating habits and encouraging regular exercise.

Just because most of your peers are overweight doesn't make it ok.

And who defines "overweight" and "healthy"? I can assure you it's societal norms not a primary care physician.

Just because most of your peers think you're overweight doesn't make it OK. America's definition of overweight is incredibly inaccurate.

Who defines overweight? You really need to step outside the "who says big isn't beautiful" daytime TV crap and look at the actual medical literature available.

The american dietetic association defines ideal body weight with the formula:

For males, 106 lbs for the first 60" and 6 lbs per inch over.

For females, 100 lbs for the first 60" and 5 lbs per inch over.

Plus or minus 10% to account for differing body types.

So a woman who is 5'5", their ideal body weight would be 112-137 lbs. Which means that 150 lbs isn't "just fine" "not overweight" or "societal norm", it's overweight.

The american medical association clearly defines overweight and obese and clearly outlines the realistic health effects of being overweight or obese for a period of time.

This has nothing to do with body image or the media pushing a particular shape down our throats, it's directly tied to what an actual healthy body weight is.
The point of my post is what society perpetuates to be overweight does not match up with what most physicians consider to be overweight or unhealthy. I'm fully aware that there are clear guidelines for blood pressure, HDL/LDL, liver enzyme, body fat%, BMI etc...

Additionally, things like thyroid disease can influence weight gain. So weight alone isn't always an accurate measure for overall health.

So yes this has everything to do with the media pushing particular image down our throat.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-29 03:28:35  
Quote:
The point of my post is what society perpetuates to be overweight does not match up with what most physicians consider to be overweight or unhealthy.

Quote:
So yes this has everything to do with the media pushing particular image down our throat.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Keep telling yourself that, eventually you'll get others to accept you for "who you are". Here have another whooper with extra large coke, it'll make you feel better.
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-29 03:45:29  
Funny because the media came crashing down on Rebecca Adlington calling her fat during the '12 Olympics.

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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-12-29 03:47:51  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Keep telling yourself that, eventually you'll get others to accept you for "who you are". Here have another whooper with extra large coke, it'll make you feel better.
Bacon is in better shape than you more likely than not lol
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