CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law

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CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-10-02 05:35:01  
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-10-02 05:38:49  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.

Minimum wage is currently not below the poverty line.

Edit: for a single person with up to one dependent in CA
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-10-02 08:47:47  
Some interesting tid-bits to go through in both threads!

Although still on the fence about the minimum-wage hike and what effects may come nationally (if at all), didn't Brown's changing of the guard and austerity measures like raising taxes while cutting budgetary fat leave CA with a budgetary surplus within the past year? If they continue on this course, wouldn't they possibly be able to sustain this extended hand?

EDIT: Oh my! WWII was brought up in a thread and it hasn't taken the death spiral yet!?!

/shocked

I think we've crossed a new threshold!
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-10-02 09:15:07  
@Bacon

Most of the sites are currently unavailable to look at census information, USDA, transportation, etc.

However, when those sites are available again the data is available for city cost of living comparision in cities (you could also do it now if you want to pay money through AACRA, but that is really silly)

http://www.coli.org/

If you look at "Click to Compare the Cost of Living Index in Your Cities of Choice" --> "Sample Comparision report"

You can see how the reports are set-up.


Data from COLI, but it is missing the national average numbers.
http://www.infoplease.com/business/economy/cost-living-index-us-cities.html
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By Zerowone 2013-10-02 09:17:26  

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
What, you referenced a popularity poll and even stated that Roosevelt cleaned up his predecessors messes based off that same popularity poll.

I stated that WWII was Roosevelt's saving grace, without that war he would have been demonized like Hoover was. Here, you can even see the post yourself

Your "sources" involve a popularity poll and a graph that shows the wrong information you are trying to convey. How is that helping your argument at all?

Also, spell-check is your friend.

Grammar, syntax and developing a winning argument apparently aren't your friends. Since you like to use this line to cut people down; here's how bad your comprehension is. The use of the Rasmussen poll was an intentional troll tactic towards Mr. wannabe Sam Elliot who so loves to use Rasmussen polls to validate his points. The beauty of the poll was that it established from a conservative point of view that FDR was more popular than Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover combined. Then the subsequent posts extrapolated on the "why" FDR was more popular; but you still seem stuck on the poll post as if it's your excalibur to the argument. You jumped in as his white knight and said and I'm paraphrasing because you're a bag of hot air and my recapitulation is much more fun to read:

"NO!!! It's because of WWII not the relative immediate and long term effects of the New Deal programs which returned nominal GDP to levels above the 1928 peak and subsequent 1929 crash by 1935 and still have had a long lasting effect to this very day!! It' was all purely WWII!!! Ignore that we're in a thread discussing minimum wage in 2013 which is a policy enacted in 1938, because I'm Kingnobody and nobody is right but me!!! Cause minimum wage is a detriment to society even!!!" -Kingnobody ~ FFXI AH » Forum » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law 2013

That's basically what've you said. What I would like to point out to you Mr. Pseudo-economist, is that you blantantly ignored this following paragraph. I know its because you didn't understand it; since it was intentionally put out as bait to offend any real economist or even a hobbyist CPA which you pretend to be.

Here's a key for you to decipher:

It's been fun kid but nobody agrees with you and that might be the reason why you have a compelling need to keep posting.

PS: How's my spelling? k thx bai* <3 01
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-10-02 09:27:56  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Groan.... you're sticking your fingers in your ears. I'm simply saying that because Denmark doesn't spend tons of money on its military, it can do other things with it such as "subsidize" it's people out of poverty.

Denmark has a broad-reaching welfare system, which ensures that all Danes receive tax-funded health care and unemployment insurance. Denmark ranked the first in the European pensions barometer survey for the past two years.[21] The lowest-income group before retirement from the age of 65 receive 120% of their pre-retirement income in pension and miscellaneous subsidies.

....and that's just the first paragraph from wikipedia......

Yes, well wiki is wrong. Unemployment insurance is not sponsored by the state. Each person has to pay for their own. (reference 21, the webpage does not exist)
https://www.workindenmark.dk/en/Find_information/Information_for_job_seekers/Working_in_Denmark/Unemployment_insurance

The second sentence is not referenced and I have no idea where they got that from.

As to your other post you dragged NATO into something that is silly. NATO is not the only military organization Denmark belongs (UN, EU) to and they are staunch allies of the US. Constantly backing US intervention and providing resources (not just money). Which is why I said you are talking out of your ***. You picked a statistic out of thin air and tied that with poverty levels.

I'm not saying people are guaranteed a living wage, I'm asking for you to come up with a solution for people who work full time and cannot live on those minimum wages alone. So far you offered no solution to that.

The federal government is not the only one that subsidizes companies. Many states offer subsidizes (or incentives) for moving to their state....thus subsidizing those companies. They also reduce or eliminate state taxes for those companies.

Of course economic growth helps with poverty, depending on where that growth is. That is like saying rain will help a drought. It doesn't offer anything.

Ok, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. If the US didn't have a bloated military budget which composed almost half the worlds spending on defense, I would argue that that money is still spent appropriately (as if that would ever happen) by the government would smooth out many grooves in poverty. All I need to do is point to Denmark and say look at the taxation, look at the lack of military spending, and instead look at the assistance (welfare state) provided to it's citizens. You can't have both, unless you're a member of NATO and not the US.

Ultra right wing rag

Some other site I found

Now can we come back to topic?

------

As for a solution for the unfortunate among us who can only scrap together minimum wage:

Economic growth! A growing economy requires workers, when the need for workers outstrips the supply of them, they become more valuable. This is economics 101 (supply and demand). The last 5 years of tepid, barely enough to keep up with the population increase, part time jobs because of obamacare, just aren't gonna cut it.

Lower taxes! In order to grow, private businesses (not the government) need more capital and more promising returns on the money they make. If my idea for starting my own company where I need 10 skilled workers is not feasible because my tax bill doesn't leave enough left to cover my overhead and still be competitive, something is wrong.

Constrict the welfare state! If life is easy without work IE if you can eat, sleep, f*ck, play on the internet, and watch your flat screen cable without working, then you are too comfortable. Whatever mechanisms are in place to facilitate that level of laziness needs to be deconstructed. No one minds lending a helping hand, but subsidizing a wasted life is not nor should it be anyone's business.
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By Zerowone 2013-10-02 09:31:09  
They haven't mentioned adjusting Unemployment Insurance rates which means you fall into higher payout bracket if the unfortunate were to occur. If I recall and its been some time since I've worked in CA. 08' being my last year there and was making about 18-26/hr which put me at the payout cap of 450/week. However, 10/hr at roughly 40hrs to 60hrs/week would be about 310 a week or 1240 dollars in unemployment insurance a month. Which ironically is better money then what some people are making in other parts of the country.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-02 10:48:34  
Zerowone said: »

So, wait, did you just admit that you are just trolling everyone?
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-10-02 12:11:51  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.

I think everyone should have skin in the game; even those of low income still need to pay tax. It is too easy to not give a crap about what the government does with our money if you don't pay into it. It becomes especially dangerous to democracy when the number of people not paying income tax grows to a large percentage. It leads to extremely irresponsible government spending.
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-10-02 12:30:51  
NFL doesn't pay taxes, it's a "non-profit organization"

With instances like these, it makes you wonder who else is considered "non-profit".
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-10-02 12:32:49  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.

I think everyone should have skin in the game; even those of low income still need to pay tax. It is too easy to not give a crap about what the government does with our money if you don't pay into it. It becomes especially dangerous to democracy when the number of people not paying income tax grows to a large percentage. It leads to extremely irresponsible government spending.
They do.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-10-02 12:45:43  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.

I think everyone should have skin in the game; even those of low income still need to pay tax. It is too easy to not give a crap about what the government does with our money if you don't pay into it. It becomes especially dangerous to democracy when the number of people not paying income tax grows to a large percentage. It leads to extremely irresponsible government spending.
They do.
Most do. You still have instances of people getting paid "under the table", but a lot of those jobs are decreasing just because of the thought of "getting caught". That and most places that do that go out of business for other reasons.

Trust me, every paycheck I get I always look at it and wonder "how much in taxes did they take this month?" As I'm sure with several others.

But hey, I'm supporting the NFL to make more money, so it's ok. lol.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-10-02 12:52:19  
Zerowone said: »

Here's a key for you to decipher:

It's been fun kid but nobody agrees with you and that might be the reason why you have a compelling need to keep posting.

PS: How's my spelling? k thx bai* <3 01

OMG! LOL! I think I need to give up on this. :/

Did anyone else work it out according to the graphs both Zero and KN gave?

/hides in a hole

EDIT: TY, Zero. You've contributed a more than KN has for the accounting laymen.
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-02 13:08:12  
So what if everyone becomes educated and no one is willing to work for minimum wage anymore?!?! fast food industries would crumble! department stores would fade away! People would riot in the streets as the dollar menu disappeared forever! Madness!
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-10-02 14:06:52  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.

I think everyone should have skin in the game; even those of low income still need to pay tax. It is too easy to not give a crap about what the government does with our money if you don't pay into it. It becomes especially dangerous to democracy when the number of people not paying income tax grows to a large percentage. It leads to extremely irresponsible government spending.
They do.

No, not the federal income tax after tax credits and refunds.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-02 14:12:13  
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-02 14:14:19  
Siren.Flavin said: »
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...
Isn't that the liberal mantra against the rich?

"They use all of these tax loopholes and don't pay their 'fair' share of taxes!!!"
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-10-02 14:22:26  
Siren.Flavin said: »
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...

I'm sorry how many times did I have to say income tax in my post before you understood what I was talking about?
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-02 14:22:27  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...
Isn't that the liberal mantra against the rich? "They use all of these tax loopholes and don't pay their 'fair' share of taxes!!!"
idk what the liberal mantra is I don't subscribe to the newsletter...

Personally I think people on the lower part of the income spectrum just assume the rich can all just afford it and they just want them to pay for it lol... I don't agree with them at all but it's easy to understand why they may think that way...

I see ***all the time where juries award ridiculous amounts of cash to people that clearly deserve to be in jail rather than receive a mountain of cash mainly because they feel bad for the person and figure the company can afford it...

Getting back to the original point... if it's ok for one to do it why do you complain when others take advantage? I mean it just looks like the same thing is being done by all and each side complaining because they feel like the other isn't paying enough in lol... or at least keeping enough in...
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-02 14:22:54  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...
I'm sorry how many times did I have to say income tax in my post before you understood what I was talking about?
I was being facetious... /sigh

In any case... they still do pay taxes... they just get the money back...
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-02 14:25:18  
Because your average minimum wage worker has bank accounts in the Cayman Islands...
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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2013-10-02 14:39:26  
If i was rich then I would go somewhere that I can pay as little tax as possible and move my income there. If I can't then I'll hire someone to do the tax for me and pay as little as possible... like investing in an international company.

There is a reason why the middle class is the one paying the most taxes. It's not because of tax laws but it's because they can't enjoy the benefit of exploiting tax loopholes or just simply off-shore their tax-able income/assets.

For the poor... well there is one simple rule in getting tax "Do not tax the poor". Or possibly tax them as few as possible as you don't get much from poor people and you hurt the economy and probably costs more in the long run as living standards, security, social problems...ect worsen.

In general, the best tax practices would need to target the rich. It's not a moral problem, it's a practical problem. In ancient times, salt and luxuries were the main target for taxation as only people who were rich could afford those. Nowadays, people tax stuff based on average price. Luxury cars, land, houses...etc would have a high taxes while basic necessities would get certain reductions. The principles would be the same but it gets progressively complex and difficult when you have the international market.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-02 14:50:02  
Siren.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...
Isn't that the liberal mantra against the rich? "They use all of these tax loopholes and don't pay their 'fair' share of taxes!!!"
idk what the liberal mantra is I don't subscribe to the newsletter...

Personally I think people on the lower part of the income spectrum just assume the rich can all just afford it and they just want them to pay for it lol... I don't agree with them at all but it's easy to understand why they may think that way...

I see ***all the time where juries award ridiculous amounts of cash to people that clearly deserve to be in jail rather than receive a mountain of cash mainly because they feel bad for the person and figure the company can afford it...

Getting back to the original point... if it's ok for one to do it why do you complain when others take advantage? I mean it just looks like the same thing is being done by all and each side complaining because they feel like the other isn't paying enough in lol... or at least keeping enough in...
You would have to ask Pleebo, Jassik, and Jet for the newsletter, but they (along with others) pretty much chant the same thing over and over again.

I have no objections for equal treatment of the tax code. But lets face it, there is no equal treatment at all. The rich has less deduction opportunities than the poor.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-02 14:52:42  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
There is a reason why the middle class is the one paying the most taxes. It's not because of tax laws but it's because they can't enjoy the benefit of exploiting tax loopholes or just simply off-shore their tax-able income/assets.

How is taking advantage of the tax rules available for everyone exploiting?

Plus, you can't move taxable income off-shores if they were earned in the US. That is one of the biggest myths ever told...
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-10-02 14:58:10  
Stop talking about me. I'm not part of your conversation, lol.

Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Quote:
I can assure you minium wage in Watts, CA with assisted living will cut it but it OBVIOUSLY won't in let's say La Jolla, CA

Something they forgot to mention, is that tax credits and deductions make your effective federal income tax somewhere around 0% when your under the poverty line. People making that little money really shouldn't be paying tax's anyway, they have nearly no disposable income as it is.

I think everyone should have skin in the game; even those of low income still need to pay tax. It is too easy to not give a crap about what the government does with our money if you don't pay into it. It becomes especially dangerous to democracy when the number of people not paying income tax grows to a large percentage. It leads to extremely irresponsible government spending.
They do.

No, not the federal income tax after tax credits and refunds.
Federal taxes are not the only "game" to have skin in.

Saying they pay no net taxes is admitting that they do indeed have a financial liability in the taxing process at some point (i.e. skin in the game).

I hate the phrase "skin in the game" ._.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-02 15:16:38  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
You would have to ask Pleebo, Jassik, and Jet for the newsletter, but they (along with others) pretty much chant the same thing over and over again.

In the radical moronic right, when EVERYONE disagrees with you, it's a conspiracy.

PS. real conservatives hate you clowns more than liberals do.
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-02 15:31:14  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
See now you're getting specific! lol... It's ok to use whatever means necassary to pay less on your taxes and you should find every loophole! I mean unless you end up getting everything back because well that's just *** up...
Isn't that the liberal mantra against the rich? "They use all of these tax loopholes and don't pay their 'fair' share of taxes!!!"
idk what the liberal mantra is I don't subscribe to the newsletter... Personally I think people on the lower part of the income spectrum just assume the rich can all just afford it and they just want them to pay for it lol... I don't agree with them at all but it's easy to understand why they may think that way... I see ***all the time where juries award ridiculous amounts of cash to people that clearly deserve to be in jail rather than receive a mountain of cash mainly because they feel bad for the person and figure the company can afford it... Getting back to the original point... if it's ok for one to do it why do you complain when others take advantage? I mean it just looks like the same thing is being done by all and each side complaining because they feel like the other isn't paying enough in lol... or at least keeping enough in...
You would have to ask Pleebo, Jassik, and Jet for the newsletter, but they (along with others) pretty much chant the same thing over and over again. I have no objections for equal treatment of the tax code. But lets face it, there is no equal treatment at all. The rich has less deduction opportunities than the poor.
And you call yourself an accountant!

I don't think that's necassarily true either... not to mention that the rich usually have more opportunites to move their money around and such... it's usually the middle class that gets screwed...
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-02 15:32:43  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
There is a reason why the middle class is the one paying the most taxes. It's not because of tax laws but it's because they can't enjoy the benefit of exploiting tax loopholes or just simply off-shore their tax-able income/assets.
How is taking advantage of the tax rules available for everyone exploiting? Plus, you can't move taxable income off-shores if they were earned in the US. That is one of the biggest myths ever told...
and yet people find ways to do it lol... wasn't there some big stink recently over in swiss cheeseland regarding this stuff?
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By Zerowone 2013-10-02 15:38:39  
If we're talking about the rich and multinational corporations the proper term is "Capital gains".

If we're talking about everyone else the term is "Income Tax".

If we're talking about offshore accounts we're talking about "tax havens".

If we're talking about tax haven's we're talking about "subsidiaries of multinational corporations siphoning royalties from the parent company".

If we're talking about the rich and multinationals getting tax breaks we're talking about "corporate welfare".

If we're talking about the rich and income taxes then we're just talking out our ***.

If we're complaining about the poor getting 100% tax returns because they don't make enough to match the cost of living and the said poor being smart enough to figure out how to file a "tax return" i.e a return on the taxes already taken out their paycheck for the year. Then we're just a bunch of hater *** who can't stand a person catching a break.

Who ever said the rich has less deduction possibilities than the poor is a liar. See capital gains tax, mortgage interest, charitable deduction percentages vs income tax rates.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-02 15:44:07  
Siren.Flavin said: »
And you call yourself an accountant!

I don't think that's necassarily true either... not to mention that the rich usually have more opportunites to move their money around and such... it's usually the middle class that gets screwed...
Most of the tax credits/deductions are phased out when you hit a certain tax threshold.

Also, thanks to the Pease limitation, Schedule A will be limited when you hit a certain threshold ($300k income for 2013).

And yet, there are no lower limit thresholds for the same credits...meaning anyone and everyone can get the tax credit if you hit the other criteria....

So, yeah, the rich get less "loopholes" than the poor.
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