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CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-27 08:53:58
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.
If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything. Yawn....
He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?
I called you a moron because you boiled what he said (whether you agree or not) down to promoting socialism. You were the first person to bring partisan rhetoric into an issue focused discussion.
Edit: quick math based on 2011 IRS records showing the average household income of the top 1% of american earners is greater than $400,000. That averages out to about 170/hr as the absolute bottom of the 1% range. Obviously 10/hr isn't anywhere near that level and is scarily close to the average individual income nationwide.
Please tell me where I "boiled it down to socialism" I said no such thing. He said it was "win/win/win", I said "no its not, you have no idea what you're talking about". You really need to polish up on your reading comprehension, and quit projecting your issues onto me.
You were the first person to make this discussion personal. Stating I disagree with someone's interpretation is generally part of this overall thing called "discussion", calling me a "moron" isn't.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 09:18:59
Interning makes me sad, I'm making the same amount a person working at McDonald's in California will be making when the wage increases to $10/hr :( You should be sad.
Store managers are now going to make the same rate as their employees they are managing (I highly doubt that their wages are going to increase unless their wage is already below the $10 per hour).
Those who earn less than $10 an hour will see a small bump in their pay, but their real earnings will not increase.
Those who make $10 an hour or higher will not see any increase in pay, but will see their real earnings (buying power) decrease because everything will go up in cost.
And in the next few years, the unskilled workers will demand even more money, which will continue the cycle until everyone earns the same amount (which will be never).
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2013-09-27 09:38:03
I remember poverty is defined as spending 1/3 of what you earn on food. Extreme poverty is defined as spending 1/2 of what you earn on food. If you have a lot of people paying 1/3 of what they earn into food stuff then you have a problem. It could be that food (the stuff people eat, not the stuff you expect them to eat) price is too high or their wage is too low.
Raising the minimum wage has a lot of effects. Some are good as some are bad. Generally, you will expect less jobs for minimal wages and higher demand for work quality. You can expect that more people will try to look for minimum wage work as there is better pay now. The higher wage positions will pretty much remain the same unless they are in a sector that relies heavily on minimal wage workers.
For example, yesterday I have 10 people working $8 an hour so I will only demand them to put $8 worth of effort into their work (or at least I expect to cause I really want them to put everything into their work). Now, I will only hire 8 people for $10 an hour so I expect them to do the work on 10 people and put some more effort into their work so I can feel it's worth paying $10 for them.
Costs of living rising with minimum wage is expected but it's not going to be a lot because of imports. The $1 can of beans from Mexico will still be $1 unless Mexico is rising its price somehow. You won't expect competitive items to raise in price as if they do they will lose to other businesses. They will try to manage their costs differently. Also, not all sectors will rise their prices as not all of them depend heavily on minimal wage workers.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-27 10:09:33
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »There didn't USED to be a shortage of RN's in the country, but then hospitals were forced to reduce the patient to RN ratio. Consequently hospitals and clinics had to hire additional RN's and NP's which put a huge burden on their budget. I think its 3 patients per RN, where as at one point they could oversee up to 6 patients.
Around the late 90's/early 2000's, or was that just on the cusp of this trend? I remember my mother being so disenchanted with nursing around then. She would complain about how understaffed private practices were, and thought the better solution would be to devote her time to free clinics while going back for her MRN so she could eventually teach.
She was a jack of all trades RN too. From the time she came to the US in the late 70's until then, she had worked L&D, OB/GYN, and pediatrics, which might have been a double edge sword for her.
If you don't think minimum wage alone is supposed to support the average cost of living then what is?
it's not meant to, nor should it.
no skilled required postions should earn pay that reflects that. they're meant to be stop-gap jobs, student jobs, retired people, ect.if you're going to base your entire life on (more than likely several) no skill positions, you better be ready to work 2 of them. is that fun? no. is that easy? no. whoever said life was going to be? I did that ***for a long time, because I was a jackass & started a family before I had the means to support it. I realized very quickly that I could be replaced in the blink of an eye, & it was time to make a change & at the very least, pick up a trade of some type. it was never fun.
egalitarianism will be the death of this country. nothing free is ever appreciated, & the worst thing you can do for a human being is encourage the attitude of "omg I'll never make it, someone help me quick!" our narcisistic society is enabling all of this to an extent, as the church would generally help with people that genuinely required it, as well as the community in general. in the digital age the community has been completely obliterated for a false sense of self that hinders communal patronage of the poor & those that really need help. so idk if at this point we're all too far gone, & hosed, but the rest of the world has moved more twords this quasi socialist-republics, and it isn't the end of the world over there.
maybe this country is finally just falling in line with the rest of the world.
this has been an almost pointless rant, forgive me, I'll spoiler it.
My own rant and response
Minimum wage should not be used on skilled labor. It should be for entry level positions, people who have never worked in the industry or never held a job before.
However, in realty that is not what it just ends up being used for.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm#1
Table 4 gives the breakdown of which industries pay minimum wage or less in the US for 2011. Companies (in general) want to pay the least amount they can for resource. Whether that resource is a product, a component, or an employee.
Last time I was paid minimum wage I was 20 working at Victoria's Secret (well.. not including serving/bartending but the hourly was less than minimum wage). I had retail experience since I was 15 and "closing, associate" responsiblities starting at 18. However, I needed a job, they were hiring, and that was the wage, non-negoiatable. I was supposed to be part-time only but I worked 40 hours a week because I was reliable and good at selling credit cards (product too, but credit cards were pushed hard at the time). After three months I asked for a raise or a transfer to another store (into a better paying position). I was denied both. I spoke with the regional manager and was told that I was "too valuable" to my home store and so could not transfer.
I got another job and left.
My story is not unique. Just like there are slackers out there who are lucky to get and keep that low skilled, low paying job, there are people who are being denied promotions or raises because that reduces the store/regional managers bonus. This doesn't just occur on the lower levels but throughout the heirarchy of a company, as I'm sure many have witnessed.
I could mention another story where I was injured on the job (a vat of fresh brewed coffee was knocked down my arm causing 2nd degree burns) and I wasn't able to work for two weeks. All I wanted was that my average work hours be paid out to me for those two weeks (which was required by workmans comp law) and my manager complained that it would eat into her bonus.
This is not even going into the fact that I had to wait until the end of my shift to leave after getting burned, that I didn't know I had to go to a specific workmans comp medical center so when I went to my university's clinic the nurse refused to help me in any way and instead drove me to the specific workmans comp medical center. Then after getting to the center they had no aloe on hand and had no clue how to handle a burn. My boyfriend (now husband) had to buy and bring some to me when he came to pick me up, as requested by the doctor in charge.
All in all it was a learning experience on incompetence and how "valued" is constantly re-defined by managers/companies.
As to your other paragraph of rant I agree and disagree. Many people don't apperciate something given for free. Where people can be replaced with corporations/companies very easily. Corporations are people according to many and they have more rights and less responsiblities in the US than actual people. The minute we start jailing companies and holding the corporate entity responsible for its actions is the minute I know I'm dreaming.
But anyways my rant is over. :) I do have to back up Kara on this. There are fun, little techniques that retailers and restaurants use to ensure that they won't have to extend benefits to their employees. One of which that I remember quite well was ensuring that employees worked just under the minimum hours to qualify as a full-time employee. You could also pick up hours, but they were wary of anyone gaining full-time hours unless you were doing late-night inventory, which they would only give an extra dollar per hour you worked. Then zap hours on your schedule, unless you were preparing for a holiday weekend.
/comforts Kara
No worries! I was hustlin' credit cards at The Gap and Forever 21 in college. :(
I think my hands-down favorite moments were the displays of sheer and utter stupidity...
For example, people who bring in expired offers, and when politely denied, would step up to their pulpit for the sake of making a grand, theatrical ordeal of the injustice that they had just experienced. Then came the demand for the scissors to cut their card in defiance in front of every other customer in queue.
All the while, you're wearing your most lucid grin, nodding, and thinking to yourself, "By all means, go ahead. You'll still be paying the balance remaining on your card whether you like it or not. If not, enjoy defaulting on a store card!"
And Tax Free Weekend! Oh God! Can someone please explain to me how saving $8.25 per $100.00 you spend is a good deal?
Sorry you had to experience that injury.
Reflecting back on this, I wish I was more observant and less apathetic about what was building incrementally. Admittedly, at that age, if someone mentioned Mardis Gras in Galveston, my attitude was...
"Who needs hours?"
Where are all the new jobs that require actual skill again? Why is retail and food service a career?
Interning makes me sad, I'm making the same amount a person working at McDonald's in California will be making when the wage increases to $10/hr :(
/applauds Lolserj and Sect/Xueye
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 10:14:58
Costs of living rising with minimum wage is expected but it's not going to be a lot because of imports. The $1 can of beans from Mexico will still be $1 unless Mexico is rising its price somehow. You won't expect competitive items to raise in price as if they do they will lose to other businesses. They will try to manage their costs differently. Also, not all sectors will rise their prices as not all of them depend heavily on minimal wage workers. Problem is, the cost of transport those beans will rise (because of two factors: the warehouse worker being paid at a higher rate and the gas station worker being paid at a higher rate, which in turns increases the cost of transporting said beans from one location to another, lets not forget the cost of transport from the factory that canned those beans to the warehouse for said grocery store). That in turn will increase the cost of the beans to cover the cost of transport.
Also, the cost of storing those beans will rise because the store staff who works for minimum wage will rise along with the cost of transport those beans.
The only saving grace is that the cost will not rise dramatically (I believe it will only increase 5% as those beans were transported along with other goods), but it will still increase. Even if they are made from Mexico, they still don't magically find their way into the store, there still is costs of getting those beans into that store.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2013-09-27 10:27:28
.... He said it was "win/win/win", I said "no its not, you have no idea what you're talking about"....
I said it was win / win / win. You said no it isn't. Then you cut straight to sarcasm.
Allow me to explain the wins.
The working poor get more money. This will sit neither in their pockets nor bank accounts but will be instantly spent. CA gets close to 10% of it back as sales tax.
The working poor get more money. This means that subsidies they receive from the state and federal governments are reduced (perhaps leaving them no better off but that's another thread) therefore reducing the outlays of both.
The working poor get more money. This raises their standard of living.
Now, you point out where the loose is.
P. S. Those managers working at or below %10 will get raises. This is a "rising tide that lifts all boats." A fourth win.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 10:47:37
.... He said it was "win/win/win", I said "no its not, you have no idea what you're talking about"....
I said it was win / win / win. You said no it isn't. Then you cut straight to sarcasm.
Allow me to explain the wins.
The working poor get more money. This will sit neither in their pockets nor bank accounts but will be instantly spent. CA gets close to 10% of it back as sales tax.
The working poor get more money. This means that subsidies they receive from the state and federal governments are reduced (perhaps leaving them no better off but that's another thread) therefore reducing the outlays of both.
The working poor get more money. This raises their standard of living.
Now, you point out where the loose is.
P. S. Those managers working at or below %10 will get raises. This is a "rising tide that lifts all boats." A fourth win. Only if prices stay stagnate.
Which they won't. I doubt you need me to explain why it won't. You probably ignored it from other people too.
Nominal effects =/= real effects.
Plus, the managers will not receive a raise at the same percentage as the workers who just got bumped up $2. (or 25% pay raise if you want to do %). They may receive a bump up by 15-20%, but that is being overly generous.
Their buying power will decrease, however, because prices will not stagnate with this labor cost increase that was issued by the CA government.
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2013-09-27 11:02:47
Prices will increase without this. Its called inflation. Indeed there should be no greater or lesser inflation with or without this.
For those too simple to get it, your response has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage increase in CA.
TLDR: argument shot down.
Find a negative that is even vaguely related to CA's minimum wage increase.
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-27 11:14:31
Costs of living rising with minimum wage is expected but it's not going to be a lot because of imports. The $1 can of beans from Mexico will still be $1 unless Mexico is rising its price somehow. You won't expect competitive items to raise in price as if they do they will lose to other businesses. They will try to manage their costs differently. Also, not all sectors will rise their prices as not all of them depend heavily on minimal wage workers. Problem is, the cost of transport those beans will rise (because of two factors: the warehouse worker being paid at a higher rate and the gas station worker being paid at a higher rate, which in turns increases the cost of transporting said beans from one location to another, lets not forget the cost of transport from the factory that canned those beans to the warehouse for said grocery store). That in turn will increase the cost of the beans to cover the cost of transport. Also, the cost of storing those beans will rise because the store staff who works for minimum wage will rise along with the cost of transport those beans. The only saving grace is that the cost will not rise dramatically (I believe it will only increase 5% as those beans were transported along with other goods), but it will still increase. Even if they are made from Mexico, they still don't magically find their way into the store, there still is costs of getting those beans into that store. That's all assuming that everyone involved in the process before this was making minimum wage and that everyone involved was hired in the same place that the minimum wage was raised...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 11:35:06
Prices will increase without this. Its called inflation. Indeed there should be no greater or lesser inflation with or without this.
For those too simple to get it, your response has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage increase in CA.
TLDR: argument shot down.
Find a negative that is even vaguely related to CA's minimum wage increase. Wait, you are saying that prices won't increase because of this, all other items being equal?
You are saying that there is no increase in producing/transporting/storing products due to an increase in labor costs, and therefor no increase in price of the product?
Are you also saying that everyone's real purchasing power will increase because wages were artificially increased due to government intervention?
And you say that my argument was shot down?
You should get your head out of Peloski's *** and see the world for what it is.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-27 11:36:59
Costs of living rising with minimum wage is expected but it's not going to be a lot because of imports. The $1 can of beans from Mexico will still be $1 unless Mexico is rising its price somehow. You won't expect competitive items to raise in price as if they do they will lose to other businesses. They will try to manage their costs differently. Also, not all sectors will rise their prices as not all of them depend heavily on minimal wage workers. Problem is, the cost of transport those beans will rise (because of two factors: the warehouse worker being paid at a higher rate and the gas station worker being paid at a higher rate, which in turns increases the cost of transporting said beans from one location to another, lets not forget the cost of transport from the factory that canned those beans to the warehouse for said grocery store). That in turn will increase the cost of the beans to cover the cost of transport. Also, the cost of storing those beans will rise because the store staff who works for minimum wage will rise along with the cost of transport those beans. The only saving grace is that the cost will not rise dramatically (I believe it will only increase 5% as those beans were transported along with other goods), but it will still increase. Even if they are made from Mexico, they still don't magically find their way into the store, there still is costs of getting those beans into that store. That's all assuming that everyone involved in the process before this was making minimum wage and that everyone involved was hired in the same place that the minimum wage was raised...
The fact is that most "minimum wage" jobs aren't actually minimum wage, but slightly above it. For all intents and purposes you can consider anyone working outside of a skilled field to be minimum wage. so most of the statics are skewed naturally.
Plus, the managers will not receive a raise at the same percentage as the workers who just got bumped up $2. (or 25% pay raise if you want to do %). They may receive a bump up by 15-20%, but that is being overly generous.
Their buying power will decrease, however, because prices will not stagnate with this labor cost increase that was issued by the CA government.
Closing the income gap has a lot of side-effects, which I'm sure you know. Not all are bad. The people between the professional wage levels and the unskilled levels (first line supervisors and lower level management) generally get the shaft on any progressive social change.
Prices will increase without this. Its called inflation. Indeed there should be no greater or lesser inflation with or without this.
The important takeaway, as MOST of us aren't versed in complex economic models, is that this is only one variable in a very complex equation. You can't change the yardstick and expect the measurements to stay the same.
You are right in most respects, but ALL of the speculations people have presented are still based on variables that aren't easily defined.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 11:37:33
That's all assuming that everyone involved in the process before this was making minimum wage and that everyone involved was hired in the same place that the minimum wage was raised...
I'm sorry, I didn't know that warehousing product required a skill.
Nor manning a cash register at a gas station.
Or working in the stockroom of a grocery store, or most other positions of said store.
Even if the product was made where this law doesn't affect them, there are still costs to those that this law does effect. The price will rise, and not by normal inflation pressures.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-27 11:43:03
Prices will increase without this. Its called inflation. Indeed there should be no greater or lesser inflation with or without this.
For those too simple to get it, your response has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage increase in CA.
TLDR: argument shot down.
Find a negative that is even vaguely related to CA's minimum wage increase. Wait, you are saying that prices won't increase because of this, all other items being equal?
You are saying that there is no increase in producing/transporting/storing products due to an increase in labor costs, and therefor no increase in price of the product?
Are you also saying that everyone's real purchasing power will increase because wages were artificially increased due to government intervention?
And you say that my argument was shot down?
You should get your head out of Peloski's *** and see the world for what it is.
Purchasing power, in the most literal sense, is based on the difference between people's resources. If everyone has the same amount of available cash, purchasing power is obviously non-existent.
But the people in the fields you are describing (transportation, warehouse, etc) aren't generally minimum wage workers. Those are professional fields, as even low level warehouse workers are usually operators (CDL, lift truck, etc). Even here in Idaho, lift truck operators make about 40% more than minimum wage. A universal operator/CDL like me usually makes $17-30/hr and senior/specialty operators (crane/excavation/roadworks) can make well over $50/hr.
Also, commercial transportation is a far different construction than personal transportation. There aren't minimum wage goobers manning cash registers, most commercial transportation relies on automated fuel accounts and electronic beacons. That means the kid pumping your gas is actually an IT professional. And a lot of the total cost of commercial transportation is government regulation in the form of load inspectors and weigh stations, DoT clerical, etc.
Overall prices WILL increase if standardized wages are increased, but not equally.
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Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-27 11:45:32
That's all assuming that everyone involved in the process before this was making minimum wage and that everyone involved was hired in the same place that the minimum wage was raised... I'm sorry, I didn't know that warehousing product required a skill. Nor manning a cash register at a gas station. Or working in the stockroom of a grocery store, or most other positions of said store. Even if the product was made where this law doesn't affect them, there are still costs to those that this law does effect. The price will rise, and not by normal inflation pressures. I don't think your job requeires much skill but here we are...
Skill or not you still don't know how much any of them get paid... You're basing your hypothesis off of incomplete information... There are jobs out there that don't require a great deal of skill or just taught on the spot that people get paid more than $10 a day for... It also depends on the product...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 13:03:18
I don't think your job requeires much skill but here we are...
Fine, go prepare tax returns for clients with something more than a W-2 and 1098. Lets see how well you do.
Quote: Skill or not you still don't know how much any of them get paid... You're basing your hypothesis off of incomplete information... There are jobs out there that don't require a great deal of skill or just taught on the spot that people get paid more than $10 a day for... It also depends on the product... I do tax returns for grocery stores, warehouses, trucking companies, and other industries. I also worked for several grocery stores and a fast food joint before and during college.
I see how much people get paid. It is not hypothesis off of incomplete information, because I have the information in my hands.
Yes, there are jobs out there that don't require skill and get paid more than the proposed minimum wage, but where skill is lacking, experience takes prescience. Do you think those who has little skills but a lot of experience will get an automatic pay raise at the same % as minimum wage increase will?
I highly doubt that. Some people will, but most will not.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-27 13:20:24
I don't think your job requeires much skill but here we are...
Skill or not you still don't know how much any of them get paid... You're basing your hypothesis off of incomplete information... There are jobs out there that don't require a great deal of skill or just taught on the spot that people get paid more than $10 a day for... It also depends on the product...
Accounting requires a lot of knowledge, skill, as it's defined, includes knowledge. It's not the precision end of skill, but there are intracacies that fit into the "skills" catagory.
MOST people in clerical fields like accounting know just enough about related fields to sound like a jackass, though.
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-27 13:25:27
I don't think your job requeires much skill but here we are... Fine, go prepare tax returns for clients with something more than a W-2 and 1098. Lets see how well you do. Thats it?
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-27 13:26:20
***, I can talks in binary, son!
010101110010101010100101110000011010101011
***.
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-27 13:26:39
I don't think your job requeires much skill but here we are... Fine, go prepare tax returns for clients with something more than a W-2 and 1098. Lets see how well you do. Quote: Skill or not you still don't know how much any of them get paid... You're basing your hypothesis off of incomplete information... There are jobs out there that don't require a great deal of skill or just taught on the spot that people get paid more than $10 a day for... It also depends on the product... I do tax returns for grocery stores, warehouses, trucking companies, and other industries. I also worked for several grocery stores and a fast food joint before and during college. I see how much people get paid. It is not hypothesis off of incomplete information, because I have the information in my hands. Yes, there are jobs out there that don't require skill and get paid more than the proposed minimum wage, but where skill is lacking, experience takes prescience. Do you think those who has little skills but a lot of experience will get an automatic pay raise at the same % as minimum wage increase will? I highly doubt that. Some people will, but most will not. You work in CA? and have access to the salary roster for every company? You also know all their business practices?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 13:33:01
You work in CA? and have access to the salary roster for every company? You also know all their business practices? My clients are all over the US.
Your point?
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-27 13:36:50
You work in CA? and have access to the salary roster for every company? You also know all their business practices? My clients are all over the US. Your point? My point is that you don't have the information at your fingertips that you claim to have... or an understanding of their business practices...
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-27 13:38:16
I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to an H&R block associate...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-27 13:47:11
You work in CA? and have access to the salary roster for every company? You also know all their business practices? My clients are all over the US. Your point? My point is that you don't have the information at your fingertips that you claim to have... or an understanding their business practices... Actually, if you can understand the financial statements, you can understand the business practices of any company. It is all spelled out for you, you just need to know how to read it.
I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to an H&R block associate... Believe what you wish.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-27 13:49:17
I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to an H&R block associate...
You probably are... They had a kiosk setup at walmart this year and I literally watched the guy ride his bicycle into the store wearing knee and elbow pads and lock it to the PVC kiosk with a lock that cost at least twice as much as his suit.
you just need to know how to read it.
Translation - pull something out of your butt.
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Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-27 13:52:54
I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to an H&R block associate...
HOLY CRAP!
/highfive
Did we just mind-meld?!? I was thinking of asking how his cubical at H&R Block treating him before lunch, but I'd thought that would register a ten on the bitchy scale.
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By Zerowone 2013-09-27 13:53:28
the minimum wage in CA raises every 5-7 years to match the cost of living and inflation. There really isn't much to speak about here. Though someone mentioned its not fair to people with 2 to 4 yr degrees making 13/hr. To that..1. if you have a 2 to 4yr degree and are making 13/hr as an entry position you are in the wrong field or are grossly underselling your skills and are part of the problem.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-09-27 18:07:07
***, I can talks in binary, son!
010101110010101010100101110000011010101011
***.
Looks like your transmission got cut off.
[+]
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2013-09-27 19:06:04
.... He said it was "win/win/win", I said "no its not, you have no idea what you're talking about"....
I said it was win / win / win. You said no it isn't. Then you cut straight to sarcasm.
Allow me to explain the wins.
The working poor get more money. This will sit neither in their pockets nor bank accounts but will be instantly spent. CA gets close to 10% of it back as sales tax.
The working poor get more money. This means that subsidies they receive from the state and federal governments are reduced (perhaps leaving them no better off but that's another thread) therefore reducing the outlays of both.
The working poor get more money. This raises their standard of living.
Now, you point out where the loose is.
P. S. Those managers working at or below %10 will get raises. This is a "rising tide that lifts all boats." A fourth win.
The lose is at the business and business owners who will choose to layoff staff or reduce hours in order to compensate for the profit loss the wage increase has brought in.
Another lose is the potential increase in the price of goods in order to compensate for the profit loss that the wage increase has brought in. This effectively makes the buying power of the "working poor" be much less.
Large companies likely won't bat an eye to the increasing wages, but you can bet that small businesses will be scrambling to find ways to change - shittier products, or shittier service, or increased prices, or fire staff - in order to stay afloat.
By Drjones 2013-09-27 19:57:46
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »The lose is at the business and business owners who will choose to layoff staff or reduce hours in order to compensate for the profit loss the wage increase has brought in. Any business that can't afford to pay its employees a reasonable wage wasn't a viable business to begin with.
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-09-27 20:02:28
I don't think its just a case of being a reasonable wage, small businesses will lay off some staff to offset the profit loss from the increased wage bill.
Quote: California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) on Wednesday signed a bill approving a $2 minimum wage increase to be rolled out over the next three years. Unless another state passes a larger increase, the bump will make California's minimum wage the highest in the country.
The governor joined legislators, business owners and workers at a signing ceremony in Los Angeles on Wednesday morning, with plans to fly to another ceremony in Oakland that afternoon.
“For millions of California’s hardworking minimum wage employees, a few extra dollars a week can make a huge difference to help them provide for their families,” said state Senate President pro tem Darrell Steinberg in a release. "They deserve a modest boost and after six years, an increase in California’s minimum wage is the right thing to do.”
The minimum wage will go up in two separate $1 increments. The first will bump the rate from $8 to $9 in July 2014, and the second increase, to $10, will come in January 2016. According to the Economic Policy Institute, about 3 million Californians are currently working for minimum wage.
Many low-wage workers across the state hailed the news.
Anthony Goytia, who works the overnight shift at a Walmart store in Duarte, currently lives in a garage with his wife and two children, while a third is on the way.
“If I had a higher wage, we would be able to rent an apartment,” he told The Huffington Post. “[Right now] we’re living in poverty. I have to live check to check.”
He detailed the struggles of living off a low wage, especially with a family. “I want to be able to buy my kids shoes if they need them and not wait for our income tax [return] to do it,” he said. “I want to give my wife money for maternity pants and underwear. She needs bras. It’s just ridiculous.”
Goytia said his family cannot afford Walmart’s health insurance plan and must depend on Medi-Cal, the state's Medicare program, instead. They also frequently receive food stamps.
“I really don’t want to depend on food stamps,” he told HuffPost. “I’m a hardworking person; I want to be a proud, working American that’s not on public assistance."
Maria Cristobal works seasonally in a packinghouse or in the lettuce and chile fields near where she lives with her two children in Fresno.
“Two more dollars would impact me a lot,” she told HuffPost. “I would definitely like to have more money for the house, for food, for rent, utilities.”
But she worries that a minimum wage hike might equal a price hike as well.
“When they raise wages, they raise prices of things," she said. "I think companies will cut back on hiring people, and it’s hard to find work sometimes.”
Brown, however, argued the reverse, saying wages in California have stagnated while consumer prices have continued to rise.
“The minimum wage has not kept pace with rising costs,” the governor said in a release. “This legislation is overdue and will help families that are struggling in this harsh economy.”
But by the time the $10 minimum takes effect, it will probably still be outpaced by inflation. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $10 per hour in 2016 is equivalent to roughly $9.36 in today's dollars.
Assembly Speaker John A. Pérez (D-Los Angeles) also disputed the idea that the minimum wage increase would put a drag on the economy.
“A $10 hour minimum wage boosts earnings by $4,000 a year and will put $2.6 billion dollars back into the hands of workers,” he said. “This is money that will be spent at grocery stores, on school supplies and invested in education, and that ultimately strengthens the recovery and ensures California’s job market continues growing faster than the rest of the nation.”
I know many democrats will disagree with me, but this is supporting "unskilled labor" at best. I understand the concept of helping bring a large chunk of working-class Americans out of the poverty bracket but this doesn't really remedy the problem. It's just a temporary fix for a particular demographic, that ultimately will have severe ramifications on the state economy.
The democrats in CA might have civil rights down, but their views on how to fix the economy is bullsh#t. Earlier this year they decided to invest more money into CA prisons rather than K-12 education...
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