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CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-26 13:12:06
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »My point, and perhaps slanted because I lived all my life in CA, min wage was fine all these years. You can live in a variety of places easily because CA provides so much housing assistance and county/municipal aid.... This is government subsidizing low wage paying businesses. So are well over 1/2 the food stamps given out. The money to do this comes from YOUR taxes. By raising the minimum wage CA increases its tax revenue and reduces its, and the federal government's, expenditures to keep the working poor afloat. Looks like a win / win / win to me. This feels like half a statement... not only that it doesn't really make sense...
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-26 13:14:17
Looks like a win / win / win to me. I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr? This also feels like a question where I have to ask myself... For serious?
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 13:17:12
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.
If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-26 13:36:22
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.
If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything. Yawn....
He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 13:38:31
Looks like a win / win / win to me. I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr? This also feels like a question where I have to ask myself... For serious?
BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.
An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.
Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.
E.G. entry level bs psychology in Los Angeles27to30k entry level
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-26 14:01:06
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Looks like a win / win / win to me. I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr? This also feels like a question where I have to ask myself... For serious?
BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.
An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.
Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.
This is simple supply and demand. More college graduates, less jobs to go around among them. Usually in this situation workers and recent grads demand smart policies from their government which facilitate a a robust and expanding economy, today they sit around and demand the government force their bosses to pay them more.
Not really sure why. They either don't believe an expanding economic pie is possible (why not), they don't want to work for it, or they are just ignorant of how things work.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 14:07:36
Correct and then reduce to downsizing or cutting hours to make their quarterly payroll budget...
Perfect example are hospital urgent cares. Why should I schedule a physician, an RN, a NP, a receptionist ON STAFF site to increased wages, when I can have nurse practioner for much less and one nurse, oh and the min wage receptionist.
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Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-26 14:22:53
Looks like a win / win / win to me. I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr? you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything. Yawn.... He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%? $50/hour would not put everyone in the 1%...
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-26 14:24:09
Looks like a win / win / win to me. I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr? you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything. Yawn.... He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%? $50/hour would not put everyone in the 1%... 1000/hr then.....
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 14:26:44
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.
If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything. Yawn....
He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?
I called you a moron because you boiled what he said (whether you agree or not) down to promoting socialism. You were the first person to bring partisan rhetoric into an issue focused discussion.
Edit: quick math based on 2011 IRS records showing the average household income of the top 1% of american earners is greater than $400,000. That averages out to about 170/hr as the absolute bottom of the 1% range. Obviously 10/hr isn't anywhere near that level and is scarily close to the average individual income nationwide.
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Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-26 14:31:58
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.
An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.
Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.
I'm assuming the "83" is indicative of your age.
Retrospectively speaking, didn't most of us already see this competitive shift taking place a decade ago during undergrads? Even then, pre-professional, professional, tech and engineering were sought after to skirt all the liberal arts and generic business majors that were already obviously over-saturated.
Good school districts were already funneling in MAs and MSs at the high school level who were also moonlighting at community colleges (they were at my HS, at least).
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 14:33:02
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Correct and then reduce to downsizing or cutting hours to make their quarterly payroll budget...
Perfect example are hospital urgent cares. Why should I schedule a physician, an RN, a NP, a receptionist ON STAFF site to increased wages, when I can have nurse practioner for much less and one nurse, oh and the min wage receptionist.
That is a microchasm of the underlying problem. There are far too many people vying for far too few of these white collar jobs while more than 3 million blue collar jobs go unfilled. I'd bet that urgent care has several unfilled janitorial and maintenance positions. I am one of the people who paid a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE amount of money for a business degree that is virtually meaningless. I made almost double the amount of money doing commercial fishing in Alaska 4 months a year that I did in my best year in management. I even considered going back to fleet maintenance because the benefits were comparable and the wage was higher.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 14:35:41
Well it's kinda how a long time ago an ASN was sufficient and a BSN with experience could become a NP w/o a graduate degree.
BS in business used to get you a jr executive position entry level.
Some fields havn't changed like ICS or Chemist.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 14:37:15
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.
An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.
Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.
I'm assuming the "83" is indicative of your age.
Retrospectively speaking, didn't most of us already see this competitive shift taking place a decade ago during undergrads? Even then, pre-professional, professional, tech and engineering were sought after to skirt all the liberal arts and generic business majors that were already obviously over-saturated.
Good school districts were already funneling in MAs and MSs at the high school level who were also moonlighting at community colleges (they were at my HS, at least).
Even 10 years ago when I was in college they were pushing hard to get people to enroll in vocational and skills based programs. I actually did double time and got an associates in automotive and heavy equipment repair with several certifications while completing my bachelors. The year I graduated they had more people graduate from liberal arts than the entire rest of the university, a university with VERY strong engineering and business programs.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-26 14:40:03
If you don't think minimum wage alone is supposed to support the average cost of living then what is?
it's not meant to, nor should it.
no skilled required postions should earn pay that reflects that. they're meant to be stop-gap jobs, student jobs, retired people, ect. if you're going to base your entire life on (more than likely several) no skill positions, you better be ready to work 2 of them. is that fun? no. is that easy? no. whoever said life was going to be? I did that ***for a long time, because I was a jackass & started a family before I had the means to support it. I realized very quickly that I could be replaced in the blink of an eye, & it was time to make a change & at the very least, pick up a trade of some type. it was never fun.
egalitarianism will be the death of this country. nothing free is ever appreciated, & the worst thing you can do for a human being is encourage the attitude of "omg I'll never make it, someone help me quick!" our narcisistic society is enabling all of this to an extent, as the church would generally help with people that genuinely required it, as well as the community in general. in the digital age the community has been completely obliterated for a false sense of self that hinders communal patronage of the poor & those that really need help. so idk if at this point we're all too far gone, & hosed, but the rest of the world has moved more twords this quasi socialist-republics, and it isn't the end of the world over there.
maybe this country is finally just falling in line with the rest of the world.
this has been an almost pointless rant, forgive me, I'll spoiler it.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-26 15:11:12
If you don't think minimum wage alone is supposed to support the average cost of living then what is?
it's not meant to, nor should it.
no skilled required postions should earn pay that reflects that. they're meant to be stop-gap jobs, student jobs, retired people, ect. if you're going to base your entire life on (more than likely several) no skill positions, you better be ready to work 2 of them. is that fun? no. is that easy? no. whoever said life was going to be? I did that ***for a long time, because I was a jackass & started a family before I had the means to support it. I realized very quickly that I could be replaced in the blink of an eye, & it was time to make a change & at the very least, pick up a trade of some type. it was never fun.
egalitarianism will be the death of this country. nothing free is ever appreciated, & the worst thing you can do for a human being is encourage the attitude of "omg I'll never make it, someone help me quick!" our narcisistic society is enabling all of this to an extent, as the church would generally help with people that genuinely required it, as well as the community in general. in the digital age the community has been completely obliterated for a false sense of self that hinders communal patronage of the poor & those that really need help. so idk if at this point we're all too far gone, & hosed, but the rest of the world has moved more twords this quasi socialist-republics, and it isn't the end of the world over there.
maybe this country is finally just falling in line with the rest of the world.
this has been an almost pointless rant, forgive me, I'll spoiler it.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "
end quote from 1787
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Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-26 16:29:10
If you don't think minimum wage alone is supposed to support the average cost of living then what is?
it's not meant to, nor should it.
no skilled required postions should earn pay that reflects that. they're meant to be stop-gap jobs, student jobs, retired people, ect. if you're going to base your entire life on (more than likely several) no skill positions, you better be ready to work 2 of them. is that fun? no. is that easy? no. whoever said life was going to be? I did that ***for a long time, because I was a jackass & started a family before I had the means to support it. I realized very quickly that I could be replaced in the blink of an eye, & it was time to make a change & at the very least, pick up a trade of some type. it was never fun.
egalitarianism will be the death of this country. nothing free is ever appreciated, & the worst thing you can do for a human being is encourage the attitude of "omg I'll never make it, someone help me quick!" our narcisistic society is enabling all of this to an extent, as the church would generally help with people that genuinely required it, as well as the community in general. in the digital age the community has been completely obliterated for a false sense of self that hinders communal patronage of the poor & those that really need help. so idk if at this point we're all too far gone, & hosed, but the rest of the world has moved more twords this quasi socialist-republics, and it isn't the end of the world over there.
maybe this country is finally just falling in line with the rest of the world.
this has been an almost pointless rant, forgive me, I'll spoiler it.
2/2
Since you and I are going to dump, and we both have bitched about this a few times before...Maybe I'm not being genuine with myself when I look back on my own experience while interning and have donned those rose-colored glasses for way too long, but I know you and I have noticed the lack of critical thinking skills and the inability to improvise and adapt in those who are five to ten years our junior? (I'm not saying that this is the case with everyone.) It seems as though with most, you have to dole out step-by-step instructions on the most elementary aspects, which they should have obtained while still in university or vocational school (whichever the case may be, for the tier that they're in).
I'm still miffed by those who are deluded enough to assume that the US is still a meritocratic society, if it ever truly was. I have to agree that the level of entitlement that both you and I have observed in our industry is repulsive sometimes. We've already had a ***-fest about nepotism/cronyism. (I shouldn't really complain about that though :/.)
Even 10 years ago when I was in college they were pushing hard to get people to enroll in vocational and skills based programs. I actually did double time and got an associates in automotive and heavy equipment repair with several certifications while completing my bachelors. The year I graduated they had more people graduate from liberal arts than the entire rest of the university, a university with VERY strong engineering and business programs.
I've been wondering what experience is really offered to the kiddos today, whether it be clerical, reception, retail, serving, paid internships, etc.
Kudos! The only extra mile I went outside of the bachelors was getting notary cert when I was working clerical during college.
I should probably get my LEED cert (Mosin is probably the only one who knows what I'm talking about) if I choose to stick with my job. Still waffling on that one, unfortunately.
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By Asura.Lolserj 2013-09-26 16:43:25
Interning makes me sad, I'm making the same amount a person working at McDonald's in California will be making when the wage increases to $10/hr :(
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 16:43:37
If you don't think minimum wage alone is supposed to support the average cost of living then what is?
it's not meant to, nor should it.
no skilled required postions should earn pay that reflects that. they're meant to be stop-gap jobs, student jobs, retired people, ect. if you're going to base your entire life on (more than likely several) no skill positions, you better be ready to work 2 of them. is that fun? no. is that easy? no. whoever said life was going to be? I did that ***for a long time, because I was a jackass & started a family before I had the means to support it. I realized very quickly that I could be replaced in the blink of an eye, & it was time to make a change & at the very least, pick up a trade of some type. it was never fun.
egalitarianism will be the death of this country. nothing free is ever appreciated, & the worst thing you can do for a human being is encourage the attitude of "omg I'll never make it, someone help me quick!" our narcisistic society is enabling all of this to an extent, as the church would generally help with people that genuinely required it, as well as the community in general. in the digital age the community has been completely obliterated for a false sense of self that hinders communal patronage of the poor & those that really need help. so idk if at this point we're all too far gone, & hosed, but the rest of the world has moved more twords this quasi socialist-republics, and it isn't the end of the world over there.
maybe this country is finally just falling in line with the rest of the world.
this has been an almost pointless rant, forgive me, I'll spoiler it.
2/2
Since you and I are going to dump, and we both have bitched about this a few times before...Maybe I'm not being genuine with myself when I look back on my own experience while interning and have donned those rose-colored glasses for way too long, but I know you and I have noticed the lack of critical thinking skills and the inability to improvise and adapt in those who are five to ten years our junior? (I'm not saying that this is the case with everyone.) It seems as though with most, you have to dole out step-by-step instructions on the most elementary aspects, which they should have obtained while still in university or vocational school (whichever the case may be, for the tier that they're in).
I'm still miffed by those who are deluded enough to assume that the US is still a meritocratic society, if it ever truly was. I have to agree that the level of entitlement that both you and I have observed in our industry is repulsive sometimes. We've already had a ***-fest about nepotism/cronyism. (I shouldn't really complain about that though :/.)
Even 10 years ago when I was in college they were pushing hard to get people to enroll in vocational and skills based programs. I actually did double time and got an associates in automotive and heavy equipment repair with several certifications while completing my bachelors. The year I graduated they had more people graduate from liberal arts than the entire rest of the university, a university with VERY strong engineering and business programs.
I've been wondering what experience is really offered to the kiddos today, whether it be clerical, reception, retail, serving, paid internships, etc.
Kudos! The only extra mile I went outside of the bachelors was getting notary cert when I was working clerical during college.
I should probably get my LEED cert (Mosin is probably the only one who knows what I'm talking about) if I choose to stick with my job. Still waffling on that one, unfortunately.
Well I went into business with the expectation of getting involved in amateur racing, the technical aspect just seemed to fit right in, but I got a serious wakeup call when I graduated and had the prospects of making 70K+/year in the shop and 30-40 in the office.
[+]
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 20:16:45
That is a microchasm of the underlying problem. There are far too many people vying for far too few of these white collar jobs while more than 3 million blue collar jobs go unfilled.
That number for blue collar work is nationwide, I'm assuming, correct?
Also white collar work particularly in health care is highly unfilled. There is a huge shortage of X-Ray Techs, RT's,RN's,NP's, CRNA's and PA's nationwide which it's free to obtain an ASN or AS in one of those respective fields is in numerous states through the junior college system.
There didn't USED to be a shortage of RN's in the country, but then hospitals were forced to reduce the patient to RN ratio. Consequently hospitals and clinics had to hire additional RN's and NP's which put a huge burden on their budget. I think its 3 patients per RN, where as at one point they could oversee up to 6 patients.
But that's just one industry white collar work has particular industries where their is dire need for additional graduates, health care being one of them. Increasing the minimum wage for the receptionists and cafeteria staff, well puts burdens on a health-care system's budget. So don't complain when you go to ER and they take 1hour to see you with a broken limb. :)
(Also I wouldn't call what an RN or NP does white collar work per-se, a physician is actually the paper pusher and the RN or NP does most of the work.)
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 20:42:23
Yes that is nationwide as of 2011 DoL statistics (actual statistic was like 2.93M), I don't know if it would have gone up or down since then, but it increased from 2008 to 2011.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 21:06:31
That kinda goes back to my point where min wage probably shouldn't be state level but County level. Every state and county is going to have different costs of living etc
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 21:12:32
True, the cost of living in rural Northern California is far less than the cost of living in LA or SD, yet they will share the same minimum wage. I really think that the concept of a minimum wage is outdated. There needs to be a transitional plan to grow the blue collar workforce to match the jobs available and funnel people away from throw away degrees. A path toward allowing the workforce to set it's own worth on a level playing field with employers. Push wages to a point of equilibrium with their market worth and allow the HARD working poor the same opportunity to name their price that their parents and grandparents had. So that the safety net for the people who don't have aspirations is much weaker but those who want to work hard have a clear view of the sky instead of the bottom of a boot.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 21:18:12
The cities of San Francisco and Santa Monica are two good examples of how they retained higher minimum wage than the rest of the state for several years and it didn't really impact the state economy dramatically.
My only concern about doing higher minimum wages per county in a state like CA, which does baby the lower-income bracket. Is the upcoming Edison plan where areas that have higher average temperatures will recieve a discount on their electricity lol. Coincidentally, many of those high temperature counties, are what we coinsider rural or having a significantly lower cost of living than SD, LA or SF.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-09-26 21:22:12
I haven't had a minimum wage job in a long time, and therefore haven't paid much attention to it since, but didn't min.wage increases normally go up every 2 years or so? I mean, it just feels like this didn't really change much, yet it's being heralded as the messiah/antichrist by the opposing extremes.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 21:33:51
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »The cities of San Francisco and Santa Monica are two good examples of how they retained higher minimum wage than the rest of the state for several years and it didn't really impact the state economy dramatically.
My only concern about doing higher minimum wages per county in a state like CA, which does baby the lower-income bracket. Is the upcoming Edison plan where areas that have higher average temperatures will recieve a discount on their electricity lol. Coincidentally, many of those high temperature counties, are what we coinsider rural or having a significantly lower cost of living than SD, LA or SF.
The thing I don't like about this situation is that they aren't generating any wealth. I more long term solution would be to encourage companies to offer performance based wage increases (obviously with some level of oversight) and begin to dial back public assistance programs. Encourage workers to aspire to a better wage and encourage companies to reward good people with a better wage. Take the funds removed from public assistance and set up a public trust for needed fields. If a person is willing to seek education in a field that is short of workers, they would have at least part of their education subsidized. Put the dollars to work instead of throwing them at people who don't make good choices with it.
CA also needs to seriously revisit it's direct democracy policies. The public, in general, isn't able to make sound legislative decisions. They voted to keep funding in social programs and education while voting against the tax revenue needed to fund them.
I haven't had a minimum wage job in a long time, and therefore haven't paid much attention to it since, but didn't min.wage increases normally go up every 2 years or so? I mean, it just feels like this didn't really change much, yet it's being heralded as the messiah/antichrist by the opposing extremes.
They aren't a linear increase or a constant interval and are almost never tied to cost of living or inflation. History of minimum wages by year There is a column on this graph showing normalized dollars. You can see that the current minimum wage is the second lowest in normalized dollars in the history of the minimum wage standard, the only lower year was 1955 which was corrected to almost a dollar more the following year. The purchasing power of minimum wage peaked in 1968 and has fallen pretty steadily since then.
By Drjones 2013-09-26 21:46:34
CA also needs to seriously revisit it's direct democracy policies. The public, in general, isn't able to make sound legislative decisions. They voted to keep funding in social programs and education while voting against the tax revenue needed to fund them. To be fair the politicians don't seem to be able to do any better.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 21:55:47
The thing I don't like about this situation is that they aren't generating any wealth.
Edison will be profiting, they will be hiking up the rates for people in the beach cities and lowering the rates for people in the valleys/deserts.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=9243600
EDIT: So this in conjunction with the 10/hr increase isn't really fair to middle class residents.
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サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 22:46:14
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »The thing I don't like about this situation is that they aren't generating any wealth.
Edison will be profiting, they will be hiking up the rates for people in the beach cities and lowering the rates for people in the valleys/deserts.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=9243600
EDIT: So this in conjunction with the 10/hr increase isn't really fair to middle class residents.
That's just shifting money around, and shifting wealth rarely has a positive universal effect. The goal would be to allow companies to increase revenue, but since 70% of the american economy is consumer purchase, taking money from the middle and lower class only slows overall growth and actually hurts the companies.
CA also needs to seriously revisit it's direct democracy policies. The public, in general, isn't able to make sound legislative decisions. They voted to keep funding in social programs and education while voting against the tax revenue needed to fund them. To be fair the politicians don't seem to be able to do any better.
This kind of schoolhouse bickering is a fairly new thing. Historically representative democracies have a far longer shelf life than direct democracies.
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-09-27 03:23:16
If you don't think minimum wage alone is supposed to support the average cost of living then what is?
it's not meant to, nor should it.
no skilled required postions should earn pay that reflects that. they're meant to be stop-gap jobs, student jobs, retired people, ect.if you're going to base your entire life on (more than likely several) no skill positions, you better be ready to work 2 of them. is that fun? no. is that easy? no. whoever said life was going to be? I did that ***for a long time, because I was a jackass & started a family before I had the means to support it. I realized very quickly that I could be replaced in the blink of an eye, & it was time to make a change & at the very least, pick up a trade of some type. it was never fun.
egalitarianism will be the death of this country. nothing free is ever appreciated, & the worst thing you can do for a human being is encourage the attitude of "omg I'll never make it, someone help me quick!" our narcisistic society is enabling all of this to an extent, as the church would generally help with people that genuinely required it, as well as the community in general. in the digital age the community has been completely obliterated for a false sense of self that hinders communal patronage of the poor & those that really need help. so idk if at this point we're all too far gone, & hosed, but the rest of the world has moved more twords this quasi socialist-republics, and it isn't the end of the world over there.
maybe this country is finally just falling in line with the rest of the world.
this has been an almost pointless rant, forgive me, I'll spoiler it.
My own rant and response
Minimum wage should not be used on skilled labor. It should be for entry level positions, people who have never worked in the industry or never held a job before.
However, in realty that is not what it just ends up being used for.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm#1
Table 4 gives the breakdown of which industries pay minimum wage or less in the US for 2011. Companies (in general) want to pay the least amount they can for resource. Whether that resource is a product, a component, or an employee.
Last time I was paid minimum wage I was 20 working at Victoria's Secret (well.. not including serving/bartending but the hourly was less than minimum wage). I had retail experience since I was 15 and "closing, associate" responsiblities starting at 18. However, I needed a job, they were hiring, and that was the wage, non-negoiatable. I was supposed to be part-time only but I worked 40 hours a week because I was reliable and good at selling credit cards (product too, but credit cards were pushed hard at the time). After three months I asked for a raise or a transfer to another store (into a better paying position). I was denied both. I spoke with the regional manager and was told that I was "too valuable" to my home store and so could not transfer.
I got another job and left.
My story is not unique. Just like there are slackers out there who are lucky to get and keep that low skilled, low paying job, there are people who are being denied promotions or raises because that reduces the store/regional managers bonus. This doesn't just occur on the lower levels but throughout the heirarchy of a company, as I'm sure many have witnessed.
I could mention another story where I was injured on the job (a vat of fresh brewed coffee was knocked down my arm causing 2nd degree burns) and I wasn't able to work for two weeks. All I wanted was that my average work hours be paid out to me for those two weeks (which was required by workmans comp law) and my manager complained that it would eat into her bonus.
This is not even going into the fact that I had to wait until the end of my shift to leave after getting burned, that I didn't know I had to go to a specific workmans comp medical center so when I went to my university's clinic the nurse refused to help me in any way and instead drove me to the specific workmans comp medical center. Then after getting to the center they had no aloe on hand and had no clue how to handle a burn. My boyfriend (now husband) had to buy and bring some to me when he came to pick me up, as requested by the doctor in charge.
All in all it was a learning experience on incompetence and how "valued" is constantly re-defined by managers/companies.
As to your other paragraph of rant I agree and disagree. Many people don't apperciate something given for free. Where people can be replaced with corporations/companies very easily. Corporations are people according to many and they have more rights and less responsiblities in the US than actual people. The minute we start jailing companies and holding the corporate entity responsible for its actions is the minute I know I'm dreaming.
But anyways my rant is over. :) Since you and I are going to dump, and we both have bitched about this a few times before...Maybe I'm not being genuine with myself when I look back on my own experience while interning and have donned those rose-colored glasses for way too long, but I know you and I have noticed the lack of critical thinking skills and the inability to improvise and adapt in those who are five to ten years our junior? (I'm not saying that this is the case with everyone.) It seems as though with most, you have to dole out step-by-step instructions on the most elementary aspects, which they should have obtained while still in university or vocational school (whichever the case may be, for the tier that they're in).
I'm still miffed by those who are deluded enough to assume that the US is still a meritocratic society, if it ever truly was. I have to agree that the level of entitlement that both you and I have observed in our industry is repulsive sometimes. We've already had a ***-fest about nepotism/cronyism. (I shouldn't really complain about that though :/.) The step-by-step instructions needed are not just with younger generation. My husband has been seriously frustrated with this problem in people who are 10-20 years older than him who need every task and step spelled out. People who have worked in the field for decades. I also love the people who respond with "that's not my job" when you ask a question about something.....not for them to do something just to give a little information even if that information is "I don't know, you should talk with Bob".
Critical thinking, reading comprehension, these are skills that a lot of people choose not cultivate.
Companies that have less than 5 employees$500,000 in sales don't have to pay minimum wage according to federal law. None of the statistics include people who are self-employeed either. But how do independent contractors work? You have to withdraw your own taxes and basically act as a self-employeed individual (since the company(ies) you work for have very limited obligations to you) but does anyone know how they are counted in the statistics?
Edit: nevermind I found the answer. Independent contractors are subject to the self-employment tax which means they are probably filed under self-employeed for statistical purposes by the DoL.
[+]
Quote: California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) on Wednesday signed a bill approving a $2 minimum wage increase to be rolled out over the next three years. Unless another state passes a larger increase, the bump will make California's minimum wage the highest in the country.
The governor joined legislators, business owners and workers at a signing ceremony in Los Angeles on Wednesday morning, with plans to fly to another ceremony in Oakland that afternoon.
“For millions of California’s hardworking minimum wage employees, a few extra dollars a week can make a huge difference to help them provide for their families,” said state Senate President pro tem Darrell Steinberg in a release. "They deserve a modest boost and after six years, an increase in California’s minimum wage is the right thing to do.”
The minimum wage will go up in two separate $1 increments. The first will bump the rate from $8 to $9 in July 2014, and the second increase, to $10, will come in January 2016. According to the Economic Policy Institute, about 3 million Californians are currently working for minimum wage.
Many low-wage workers across the state hailed the news.
Anthony Goytia, who works the overnight shift at a Walmart store in Duarte, currently lives in a garage with his wife and two children, while a third is on the way.
“If I had a higher wage, we would be able to rent an apartment,” he told The Huffington Post. “[Right now] we’re living in poverty. I have to live check to check.”
He detailed the struggles of living off a low wage, especially with a family. “I want to be able to buy my kids shoes if they need them and not wait for our income tax [return] to do it,” he said. “I want to give my wife money for maternity pants and underwear. She needs bras. It’s just ridiculous.”
Goytia said his family cannot afford Walmart’s health insurance plan and must depend on Medi-Cal, the state's Medicare program, instead. They also frequently receive food stamps.
“I really don’t want to depend on food stamps,” he told HuffPost. “I’m a hardworking person; I want to be a proud, working American that’s not on public assistance."
Maria Cristobal works seasonally in a packinghouse or in the lettuce and chile fields near where she lives with her two children in Fresno.
“Two more dollars would impact me a lot,” she told HuffPost. “I would definitely like to have more money for the house, for food, for rent, utilities.”
But she worries that a minimum wage hike might equal a price hike as well.
“When they raise wages, they raise prices of things," she said. "I think companies will cut back on hiring people, and it’s hard to find work sometimes.”
Brown, however, argued the reverse, saying wages in California have stagnated while consumer prices have continued to rise.
“The minimum wage has not kept pace with rising costs,” the governor said in a release. “This legislation is overdue and will help families that are struggling in this harsh economy.”
But by the time the $10 minimum takes effect, it will probably still be outpaced by inflation. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $10 per hour in 2016 is equivalent to roughly $9.36 in today's dollars.
Assembly Speaker John A. Pérez (D-Los Angeles) also disputed the idea that the minimum wage increase would put a drag on the economy.
“A $10 hour minimum wage boosts earnings by $4,000 a year and will put $2.6 billion dollars back into the hands of workers,” he said. “This is money that will be spent at grocery stores, on school supplies and invested in education, and that ultimately strengthens the recovery and ensures California’s job market continues growing faster than the rest of the nation.”
I know many democrats will disagree with me, but this is supporting "unskilled labor" at best. I understand the concept of helping bring a large chunk of working-class Americans out of the poverty bracket but this doesn't really remedy the problem. It's just a temporary fix for a particular demographic, that ultimately will have severe ramifications on the state economy.
The democrats in CA might have civil rights down, but their views on how to fix the economy is bullsh#t. Earlier this year they decided to invest more money into CA prisons rather than K-12 education...
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