"US Uses Rape As An Instrument Of War"

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2010-06-21
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"US uses Rape as an instrument of war"
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-19 12:29:41  
Good read Zah. Thanks for sharing.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-19 13:36:10  
Somewhat off topic, but I found an article about this a couple of months ago. I can't find the original article I read, but just to add a little levity...









Enjoy!
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By Voren 2013-06-19 14:13:03  
Asura.Kosmik said: »
Instead of some old news, you should be bashing us on how we are funding Islamic militants all across the Middle East and N.Africa. Or maybe about how all the wire-tapping, spying, hacking, and data mining of not only our people, but yours too, is allegedly used to combat those same extremists we are funding.
It's a more relevant way to do your America bashing.

Voren said: »
Also, when citing sources for information, you may want to consider something other than Wikipedia if you want to be taken seriously.
Pro tip for wiki- Scroll down
Sources used for the content are listed near the bottom of the page. =)

Pro tip from those who've gone to college: professors at any reputable institution of higher education and most teachers at high school will not accept wiki is a source.

I knew about the citations at the bottom, but I've also seen wiki entries spanning 4+ paragraphs without a single cited source.

And didn't you know, all that data mining and wire tapping has thwarted 50+ attacks.

Unfortunately my source is less reputable than Wiki...it's CNN.
 Leviathan.Tribalprophet
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By Leviathan.Tribalprophet 2013-06-19 14:22:04  
Voren said: »
Asura.Kosmik said: »
Instead of some old news, you should be bashing us on how we are funding Islamic militants all across the Middle East and N.Africa. Or maybe about how all the wire-tapping, spying, hacking, and data mining of not only our people, but yours too, is allegedly used to combat those same extremists we are funding.
It's a more relevant way to do your America bashing.

Voren said: »
Also, when citing sources for information, you may want to consider something other than Wikipedia if you want to be taken seriously.
Pro tip for wiki- Scroll down
Sources used for the content are listed near the bottom of the page. =)

Pro tip from those who've gone to college: professors at any reputable institution of higher education and most teachers at high school will not accept wiki is a source.

I knew about the citations at the bottom, but I've also seen wiki entries spanning 4+ paragraphs without a single cited source.

And didn't you know, all that data mining and wire tapping has thwarted 50+ attacks.

Unfortunately my source is less reputable than Wiki...it's CNN.

And CNN's source is "the people who got caught doing the spying and need to justify it."
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-19 15:21:04  
Wiki is a 90% solution. "Good enough" most of the time yet lacking for anything resembling detailed info. Also it can be VERY politically biased, often to extreme levels.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-19 15:29:31  
Yeah, Wikipedia is the liberal version of Conservapedia, amirite?

EDIT: Holy ***. Conservapedia does nothing but blow my mind every time. I have to wonder if it's some grand satirical troll-fest... but I know that it's not.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-19 15:45:32  
I think we can all agree that Wiki is just a broad strokes reference. Can we move on to a less trivial subject?

Anyway...For centuries rape has been used in conquest, no matter how much we as a species delude ourselves in thinking we're more "civilized" than our predecessors. We're no better today, and we're no better than other nations.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-06-19 15:56:50  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
I think we can all agree that Wiki is just a broad strokes reference. Can we move on to a less trivial subject?

Anyway...For centuries rape has been used in conquest, no matter how much we as a species delude ourselves in thinking we're more "civilized" than our predecessors. We're no better today, and we're no better than other nations.

True, but we do have the ability to critique and hold our military leaders accountable if and when they partake or turn a blind eye to atrocities done in our name.

No military force will be without those who possess bloodlust or have become so twisted by combat that they participate in the worst acts of human behavior possible but that is no excuse to give these people a pass or to accept it as the nature of war.
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-19 15:58:53  
I think Military service should be mandatory!
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-06-19 16:11:10  
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!

Surely, you jest.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-19 16:12:46  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
Surely, you jest.
Not really...
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-19 16:22:14  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
True, but we do have the ability to critique and hold our military leaders accountable if and when they partake or turn a blind eye to atrocities done in our name.

No military force will be without those who possess bloodlust or have become so twisted by combat that they participate in the worst acts of human behavior possible but that is no excuse to give these people a pass or to accept it as the nature of war.

Agreed. We have evolved in some ways, for the better, when it comes to warfare and holding those accountable who abuse civilians.

I'm not really resigning myself to the notion that this is just natural. I do wonder sometimes if it may be something primal and psychologically ingrained that is triggered. Not that it's an excuse by any means. Just a thought. Think of "conquest" in terms of pack animals, and historic conquests by breeding out your foe.

Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!

You and Volk never served. :P
 Sylph.Linkk
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By Sylph.Linkk 2013-06-19 16:22:41  
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
Surely, you jest.
Not really...
Under the current way they do things, and even before why would anyone who is informed want to do such a thing. But now that I think of it, it would be just another way for america to fill up the jails with more otherwise decent people who they can then exploit.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-19 16:23:57  
You're pretty spot on Zahrah. Until recently, rape was considered a spoil of war, and a way to break a culture.
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-19 16:23:59  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
You and Volk never served. :P
Not even a single day!
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-19 16:24:26  
Sylph.Linkk said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
Surely, you jest.
Not really...
Under the current way they do things, and even before why would anyone who is informed want to do such a thing. But now that I think of it, it would be just another way for america to fill up the jails with more otherwise decent people who they can then exploit.
What?
 Sylph.Linkk
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By Sylph.Linkk 2013-06-19 16:28:29  
Siren.Flavin said: »
Sylph.Linkk said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
Surely, you jest.
Not really...
Under the current way they do things, and even before why would anyone who is informed want to do such a thing. But now that I think of it, it would be just another way for america to fill up the jails with more otherwise decent people who they can then exploit.
What?
If the military was mandatory, which means it would be illegal to refuse not go like the draft, what do you think the penalty would be in the country that has the largest prison population in the world?
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-19 16:30:28  
nah... nah... We would just be bolstering Canada's population... and in some cases Mexico...
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-06-19 16:30:53  
Going all the way back to Starship Troopers here, boys and girls.

"Rico! What is the difference between a citizen and a civilian?"

Being a member of the military has it's day to day perks and pitfalls, as any other job may have. You sign up to do the job that no one else wants to do, or simply can't do. You sign up to further education at the expense of the state, in return for contracted employment. There are a ton of reasons to sign up, and just as many to stay away.

If you want to understand why people are in the military, speak with veterans and enlisted members. But don't just listen to what they have to say, try to think about what they are saying, and why they are saying it.
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By volkom 2013-06-19 16:31:05  
Siren.Flavin said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
You and Volk never served. :P
Not even a single day!
I considered joining the air force multiple times. but~ the parents want me to finish college first and see if I still want to do it.
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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-06-19 16:31:26  
I think there are better arguments against mandatory military service than the prison population might go up.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-19 16:33:55  
The issue would be significantly more complicated than the prison population.
 Fenrir.Terminus
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2013-06-19 16:39:05  
Sylph.Linkk said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!
Surely, you jest.
Not really...
Under the current way they do things, and even before why would anyone who is informed want to do such a thing. But now that I think of it, it would be just another way for america to fill up the jails with more otherwise decent people who they can then exploit.

Yeah, leave the military for the ignorant and poor masses, that's what I always say!

I joke, because in reality, this is very funny. Asking why "anyone who is informed would do such a thing" just screams to me that you're not open minded, thoughtful, or in fact, informed. If you don't get it, that's cool (really) - that's part of a free society and a volunteer army. But talking about it as if it's somehow abhorrent is... dumb. "That person robbed a bank and shot three tellers and the security guard." Why would anyone do such a thing? "That person chopped off his own penis and fed it to a dog." Why would anyone do such a thing? That person kept 17 children locked in a basement for their foster care checks." Why would anyone do such a thing?

Somehow, statements like:

"that person did what they think is right." Why would someone do such a thing?

"That person is grateful and is trying to give back to a country they feel has given them so much." Why would someone do such a thing?

Or even, "That person is trying to better themselves by learning a trade and going to college the only way they know how." Why would someone do such a thing?

"That person sees an important but flawed system and wants to help make it better." Why would someone do such a thing?

Don't really match that kind of response.

Then again, everyone disagrees about stuff. If I don't want to buy health insurance in 2014, and refuse to pay the penalty, I guess I would just be an otherwise decent person in jail for America to exploit.

But hell, James Holmes was an otherwise decent person - until he shot a move theatre full of people. DAMN THIS OPPRESSION.

Point is, there are plenty of reasons, even today, to choose to be a member of the military - so go talk to your local recruiter and find out more.
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 Asura.Kosmik
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By Asura.Kosmik 2013-06-19 18:21:01  
Voren said: »
Asura.Kosmik said: »
Instead of some old news, you should be bashing us on how we are funding Islamic militants all across the Middle East and N.Africa. Or maybe about how all the wire-tapping, spying, hacking, and data mining of not only our people, but yours too, is allegedly used to combat those same extremists we are funding.
It's a more relevant way to do your America bashing.

Voren said: »
Also, when citing sources for information, you may want to consider something other than Wikipedia if you want to be taken seriously.
Pro tip for wiki- Scroll down
Sources used for the content are listed near the bottom of the page. =)

Pro tip from those who've gone to college: professors at any reputable institution of higher education and most teachers at high school will not accept wiki is a source.

I knew about the citations at the bottom, but I've also seen wiki entries spanning 4+ paragraphs without a single cited source.

And didn't you know, all that data mining and wire tapping has thwarted 50+ attacks.

Unfortunately my source is less reputable than Wiki...it's CNN.
Yes so they say. They may as well say they thwarted 500 or 5000.
I'm surprised people still believe a single word that comes from "them" especially after the past 12-13 years.

I take that back, I'm not surprised at all.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-20 05:10:32  
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
I think we can all agree that Wiki is just a broad strokes reference. Can we move on to a less trivial subject?

Anyway...For centuries rape has been used in conquest, no matter how much we as a species delude ourselves in thinking we're more "civilized" than our predecessors. We're no better today, and we're no better than other nations.

Except the topic at hand is not conquest. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the 51st and 52nd states nor are they even protectorates. War can have many purposes, conquest is rarely one. There are only a few cultures were rape was used as a weapon, mostly in the African region. For everyone else access to the local woman population was a spoil of war similar to looting. It's a way for the attacking nation to pay their soldiers, hence the term "rape and pillage". During this time women were often considered property and thus raping the women was viewed the same as stealing food and precious metals / gems.

Learning to understand relative context is a lost art during these days of politically charged emotional discourse.

Anyhow towards these a$$holes, they were found guilty and sentenced accordingly. The UCMJ is not nice towards those who break it. That is until politicians start screwing around with it.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-20 05:18:39  
Siren.Flavin said: »
I think Military service should be mandatory!

South Korea has a very interesting system. Young men are required to serve either in the military are in the riot police force. ROK Army and Marines are a 24 month obligation, Airforce, Navy, Coast Guard and Police are a 36 month obligation. Typically this is done either before or in the middle of their university time. Their basic training is only about a month long. Also their military is much harder then the US's, they still have corporal punishment and discipline is strictly enforced.

The men there tend to be radically loyal to their country as a result.

Interesting to see the social dynamic play out. People who dodged or "got out" of their mandatory service tend to be vilified by the public.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-20 13:08:29  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
I think we can all agree that Wiki is just a broad strokes reference. Can we move on to a less trivial subject?

Anyway...For centuries rape has been used in conquest, no matter how much we as a species delude ourselves in thinking we're more "civilized" than our predecessors. We're no better today, and we're no better than other nations.

Except the topic at hand is not conquest. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the 51st and 52nd states nor are they even protectorates. War can have many purposes, conquest is rarely one. There are only a few cultures were rape was used as a weapon, mostly in the African region. For everyone else access to the local woman population was a spoil of war similar to looting. It's a way for the attacking nation to pay their soldiers, hence the term "rape and pillage". During this time women were often considered property and thus raping the women was viewed the same as stealing food and precious metals / gems.

I’m sure many people would disagree with your idea that Iraq and Afghanistan are not about conquest.

Are you sure it was just a “few” cultures? First off, I think Tacitus and Homer would like a word with you. Seeing as though they are dead, you may have to withstand the overwhelming burden of, you know…reading! Let’s just throw out a few more examples, shall we?

By the way, your insertion of “mostly in the African region” does come off a tad ignorant and racist. So, we’ll start here. Conquerors usually asserted their superiority (whether racial, religious, etc.). The idea of eugenics goes back a lot farther than you would imagine. Now, were you talking about European Imperialization of Africa? I’m sure there were cases of rape, but for the most part, Europeans kept their own, exclusive microcosms within their conquered nations. You know that idea of racial superiority? You know what Apartheid is? I mean, most of us on FFXIAH were alive when it was overturned!

Were you referring to Rwanda (also within our lifetime)? I was young, but I still remember footage of corpses floating down the river while my dad was watching the evening news. You bet I had questions that required sugar-coated explanations from my dad, at the time. Years later, I found out that whole dust-up was about asserting perceived class dominance of the Hutu (rich) tribe over the Tutsis (poor), and rape and forced impregnation were definitely used.

Should we talk about the Anglo-Scottish war? Should we talk about Khmer Rouge, Bosnia (within our lifetime), Nanking, etc. Yes, to the victors go the spoils, but to deny that people didn't use rape and impregnation to proliferate their own idealistic views is just…Ugh! I hate bringing up WWII on here, because threads tend to go to shambles very quickly, but we can also gab about lebensborn? Breeding, whether on a conscious or subconscious level, is and always has been a utilitarian part of war.

Read more, talk less, and be less combative. You’ll be doing yourself a favor. Your superior powers of analysis are too much for us! Please! We relent! By the way, speaking of context, you overlooked two things! Congratulations!
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-06-20 13:29:09  
I did not realize that rape classified as a war crime was so new, or at least enforcement was so new.

UN recognizes it in 2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/unitednations.warcrimes

G8 recognizes rape and sexual violence as a war crime April 2013
http://www.rferl.org/content/g8-syria-north-korea-iran/24954292.html
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-06-20 13:39:16  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
I did not realize that rape classified as a war crime was so new, or at least enforcement was so new.

UN recognizes it in 2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/unitednations.warcrimes

G8 recognizes rape and sexual violence as a war crime April 2013
http://www.rferl.org/content/g8-syria-north-korea-iran/24954292.html

Wow! I don't even know what to say about that.
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 Lakshmi.Watusa
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By Lakshmi.Watusa 2013-06-20 13:44:47  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
@Ophannus
These were pictures released during one of the wikileaks in 2009. You can find a variety of news sources for them.

Lol. These pics are screenshots from a porno. PM me if you want the link.




4 year old story with fake pictures used to get a shock reaction. Close this thread.
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