Nin Finally Gets An Update!

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2010-06-21
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Nin finally gets an update!
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 Caitsith.Heimdall
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By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-07-03 14:01:14  
Nightfyre said:
Heimdall said:
steelshells were T+

Steelshells are 73-76. Better luck next time.


maybe u should go there and check yourself then reading from a chart lol
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-07-03 14:06:53  
Heimdall said:
Nightfyre said:
Heimdall said:
steelshells were T+

Steelshells are 73-76. Better luck next time.


maybe u should go there and check yourself then reading from a chart lol

Indeed I solo up there all the time they range from DC-T usually... + or - depends on what job im on and my lvl of melee skills
 Shiva.Artemicion
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By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-07-03 14:10:55
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It was pointed out to me thanks to Celene that the new JA animations look alot like teething rings a baby uses lol.

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 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-07-03 14:11:49  
Of course only Cele would notice that...
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 14:13:53  
Dasva said:
Heimdall said:
Nightfyre said:
Heimdall said:
steelshells were T+

Steelshells are 73-76. Better luck next time.


maybe u should go there and check yourself then reading from a chart lol

Indeed I solo up there all the time they range from DC-T usually... + or - depends on what job im on and my lvl of melee skills

Whee so I didn't say DC-T I said DC-EM... missed a whopping 1 level of mob. Point stands.
 Ramuh.Alphir
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By Ramuh.Alphir 2009-07-03 14:20:11  
Dubont said:
>.> Why is everyone only seeing the tanking ja...theres another one there !


Because the player base made Nin a tank because it's the only viable alternative for Pld. I'd love to put both these abilities into use, especially Innin. Finally, I won't have to argue with ppl that Nin can be a deadly DD. I'm diggin this update ^^
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-07-03 14:25:52  
Nightfyre said:
Dasva said:
Heimdall said:
Nightfyre said:
Heimdall said:
steelshells were T+

Steelshells are 73-76. Better luck next time.


maybe u should go there and check yourself then reading from a chart lol

Indeed I solo up there all the time they range from DC-T usually... + or - depends on what job im on and my lvl of melee skills

Whee so I didn't say DC-T I said DC-EM... missed a whopping 1 level of mob. Point stands.

Actually seeing as you were calling someone out on there being T+s up there your point is still completely wrong
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 14:29:54  
Fair enough.
 Ramuh.Alphir
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By Ramuh.Alphir 2009-07-03 14:39:24  
Kungfuhustle said:
yeah, I'm gonna come back as my trusty MNK/WAR and STILL strip hate from lolNINtanks... Oh that's gonna be beautiful.


Monk is my main and ultimate fave job, but stop hating on Nin. Be happy any job got an update instead of a nerf. Nins have a tough job keeping hate in exp party over Pld, but we still need them. At least Nin got something to help keep hate for when they tank.
 Carbuncle.Elgato
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By Carbuncle.Elgato 2009-07-03 14:40:22  
Many Ninjas won't venefit from this cuz they just do shadows and voke.
I know a few ninjas (I'm 1 of them) that are gonna be so happy about this, since we were doing ok tanking be4 this.
I do keep hate enogh even from monks.
But there is no better DD then that 1 that let the tank do theyr job and just rape the mobs when they @ like 35-40%
Every DD need to learn how to do theyr job then you'll see how good nin can be as a Tank.

Can't wait to try this ^^
 Remora.Dubont
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By Remora.Dubont 2009-07-03 14:48:33  
Elgato said:
Many Ninjas won't venefit from this cuz they just do shadows and voke.
I know a few ninjas (I'm 1 of them) that are gonna be so happy about this, since we were doing ok tanking be4 this.
I do keep hate enogh even from monks.
But there is no better DD then that 1 that let the tank do theyr job and just rape the mobs when they @ like 35-40%
Every DD need to learn how to do theyr job then you'll see how good nin can be as a Tank.

Can't wait to try this ^^

I agree that DD need to learn about hate control but also 90% of ninjas in this game need to learn there job. A ninja with full evasion gear will never be able to tank. Its impossible. Too many times have i seen players spend tons of gil on evasion gear...just to have disppointing results. IMO, whether or not the players think that NIN is a tank only or that it is a DD only, you need to have gear on u for both at the same time. Keep an evasion set for when you have hate and a acc/str/att set for DDing. If you are tanking Macro in DD gear for ws or even have some int and such for ninjutsu to keep hate. So all in all...its not always the DD's fault that the nin cant keep hate.
 Ramuh.Alphir
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By Ramuh.Alphir 2009-07-03 14:51:15  
Elkanah said:
I would've loved to see them put a JA or maybe a WS in there for NIN throwing, with all the Racc/Ratk gear they have access to. Or shurikens go down in price at NPC's so they can carry that stack of x99 pwnsauce >:o


Yeah, where are the new shurikens and throwing WS? I guess I can't ask for too much, at least we got some abilities now. I would love to actually use my throwing skills, but damn it's expensive to buy ammo.
 Remora.Dubont
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By Remora.Dubont 2009-07-03 14:54:57  
Alphir said:
Elkanah said:
I would've loved to see them put a JA or maybe a WS in there for NIN throwing, with all the Racc/Ratk gear they have access to. Or shurikens go down in price at NPC's so they can carry that stack of x99 pwnsauce >:o


Yeah, where are the new shurikens and throwing WS? I guess I can't complain too much, at least we got some abilities now. I would love to actually use my throwing skills, but damn it's expensive to buy ammo.


psssssst farm them ;)

or just do like me and use the lv 18 suriken and occansionally the manji...still does more dmg than ur katanas either way...
 Ramuh.Alphir
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By Ramuh.Alphir 2009-07-03 15:02:44  
Hmmm, I'll have to try that, I'm currently skilling my throwing (love the martial master signet feature!).

All-in-all I'm very happy with the update for Nin, at least finally it gets something valuable and needed. Idk about Innin needing to be behind the mob though. Most of the time DD stand behind the mob anyway lol, so not sure if it's that big of a deal.

I'd love to see War get the same type of update, something other than berserk and defender. Also, looking forward to other adjustments for jobs in this update.
 Fairy.Azulmagia
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By Fairy.Azulmagia 2009-07-03 15:12:14  
Alphir said:
Elkanah said:
I would've loved to see them put a JA or maybe a WS in there for NIN throwing, with all the Racc/Ratk gear they have access to. Or shurikens go down in price at NPC's so they can carry that stack of x99 pwnsauce >:o


Yeah, where are the new shurikens and throwing WS? I guess I can't ask for too much, at least we got some abilities now. I would love to actually use my throwing skills, but damn it's expensive to buy ammo.


Skill with a chakram/throwing ring.
 Ramuh.Alphir
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By Ramuh.Alphir 2009-07-03 15:27:57  
I use mainly Rogetsurin now for skilling, but I'd love to use some Shuriken for DD eventually. More feasible ammo please!
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2009-07-03 15:37:59  
maybe nin tanks will finally be able to hold hate...
 Hades.Hirumakun
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By Hades.Hirumakun 2009-07-03 16:35:23  
Kungfuhustle said:
yeah, I'm gonna come back as my trusty MNK/WAR and STILL strip hate from lolNINtanks... Oh that's gonna be beautiful.


Yeah right, you're one of those who haven't experienced much in the game and still don't understand that parameters vary so greatly depending on situations. Robbing hate from tank as a DD against squeechy xp/meripo mobs isn't anything unusual. And (for god's sake) xp parties aren't everything in this game.

Bring your MNK/WAR to a Kirin fight and try to "strip hate" from a nin/drk kiter. Good luck.

Note : I have both NIN and MNK at 75 and I love them both.
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-07-03 16:51:03  
Hirumakun said:
Kungfuhustle said:
yeah, I'm gonna come back as my trusty MNK/WAR and STILL strip hate from lolNINtanks... Oh that's gonna be beautiful.


Yeah right, you're one of those who haven't experienced much in the game and still don't understand that parameters vary so greatly depending on situations. Robbing hate from tank as a DD against squeechy xp/meripo mobs isn't anything unusual. And (for god's sake) xp parties aren't everything in this game.

Bring your MNK/WAR to a Kirin fight and try to "strip hate" from a nin/drk kiter. Good luck.

Note : I have both NIN and MNK at 75 and I love them both.


only reason your NIN/DRK will do good is cz of the ATT Bonus from DRK, maybe the spells, other than that... meh.
 Asura.Sharpe
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By Asura.Sharpe 2009-07-03 16:53:42  
Dasva said:

The real problem with composure is in pt setting. It forces you to do all your buffs at once and if you have to do other stuff and do it often that can kinda hurt cause of the cast/recast penalties. And with all the other stuff going on on your chat log its much much easier to miss buff cycles for melees since you cant use yourself as the first person on it.


Learn to *** play the job properly. It's not even remotely difficult.
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 16:57:56  
Kungfuhustle said:
Hirumakun said:
Kungfuhustle said:
yeah, I'm gonna come back as my trusty MNK/WAR and STILL strip hate from lolNINtanks... Oh that's gonna be beautiful.


Yeah right, you're one of those who haven't experienced much in the game and still don't understand that parameters vary so greatly depending on situations. Robbing hate from tank as a DD against squeechy xp/meripo mobs isn't anything unusual. And (for god's sake) xp parties aren't everything in this game.

Bring your MNK/WAR to a Kirin fight and try to "strip hate" from a nin/drk kiter. Good luck.

Note : I have both NIN and MNK at 75 and I love them both.


only reason your NIN/DRK will do good is cz of the ATT Bonus from DRK, maybe the spells, other than that... meh.

Given that those spells are how he's holding hate, yeah, I'd say the spells are the reason (Hint: kited fight. Tank isn't meleeing.).

The other reason might be the fact that it's a kited fight and you're a melee, you won't hit reliably.
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-07-03 17:10:07  
NIN/DRK won't mean a thing anywhere else BUT kiting... so yeah...

NIN finally has a chance not to be lol anymore, which is a good thing.
 Hades.Hirumakun
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By Hades.Hirumakun 2009-07-03 17:24:30  
In fact, nin/drk is also a common tank in Sky even when not kiting (Byakko and so on), but will still be equipping an earth staff, so not hitting at all. The reason a nin/drk keeps hate on high lvl NMs is simple : JAs and spells like Sleep produce the same hate no matter the lvl of the mob. On the other hand, DDs will be hitting for much smaller numbers than in xp scenarios.

It is true however pld/nin is the most used tank today in Sky/HNM stuff, since PLDs discovered how to make good use of haste gear and to switch gears HP-/HP+ gears in order to Cure IV themselves.

Nonetheless, NIN is still an awesome job for low-man events like charybdis, or just going out as nin/dnc and solo Serket or Elder Goobbues in Boyahda for some gils and fun. And yeah, for those who like NIN, it's really tons of fun to play ! so... what else ? :-)
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-07-03 17:26:42  
still situational, still not overall performance...

Yeah, NIN/DRK = situational, NIN/DNC = situational...

like I said, at least now NIN can actually hold hate and not get laughed at.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 17:31:03  
Everything is situational. Using that statement to discredit a situational choice of tank is poor reasoning. NIN has its uses as a tank, and nobody should be laughing at a good NIN, especially in the situations it's actually suited to tanking.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-07-03 18:19:36  
Kungfuhustle said:
NIN/DRK won't mean a thing anywhere else BUT kiting... so yeah...

NIN finally has a chance not to be lol anymore, which is a good thing.

90% I will take a good nin/drk over a pld anyday. Gain hate rediculously faster. Only circumstances I'll take a pld/nin is in situations where keeping shadows up is just plain impossible... which ain't that many situations mostly just fast attacking mobs that can't be slow/elegied.
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-07-03 18:23:29  
We won't even know how much this changes the game/job until it's released, so saying things are somehow now different than they were before is jumping ahead a little.

@ lolNIN/DRK: This is probably largely pointless to even argue, and despite the whole concept of working with tanks and co-tanks instead of trying to get your *** kicked, in the case of comparative PLD and NIN tanks with proper gear and support, NINs will generally hit the hate cap quicker just because of the raw amount of utilities they have at their disposal, though it's constant spamming. If Atonement is involved, that can sway the results. To me, kiting is actually a worse situation for /DRK as opposed to standing and tanking in order to cycle through your spells at will instead of start/stop/start.

Outside of that, NIN/DRK has stun which makes a world of difference for everyone involved, not just themselves. Anyone who has ever had to low-man Omega knows how NIN/DRKs and some BLMs can turn that thing into a big baby. lol Naturally that doesn't count for anything on mobs that build resist and need to be stunned at key points.

Anwyay, I'm personally really excited about this, both for NIN/DRK tanking and possible meripo benefits, despite already having sam anyway. lol Katanananaburns!
 Hades.Medjai
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By Hades.Medjai 2009-07-03 18:28:42  
cant rdm/nin tank Omega? havent done a limbus in almost 2 years so i dont remember anyways if they can nin/drk tanking is null and void omega at least and i have yet to see any nin tank cerb or khim would like to see it happen. heard alot of ppl say they have but pics or its a lie imo
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 18:52:45  
Dasva said:
Kungfuhustle said:
NIN/DRK won't mean a thing anywhere else BUT kiting... so yeah...

NIN finally has a chance not to be lol anymore, which is a good thing.

90% I will take a good nin/drk over a pld anyday. Gain hate rediculously faster. Only circumstances I'll take a pld/nin is in situations where keeping shadows up is just plain impossible... which ain't that many situations mostly just fast attacking mobs that can't be slow/elegied.

Alright, I'm genuinely curious by this point where we've got priority differences on tanking. I'm reading speed of hate generation, but after hate caps that's a non-issue barring hate reset so there's gotta be an additional factor that pushes you towards NIN/DRK so much.

PLD
Lots of VE gain with some steady CE gain.
Atonement allows it to contribute damage.
Can cure itself, whether to regain HP or gain enmity.
A variety of ways to reduce damage.
Lots of oshit buttons.

Slow to build CE, especially if it can't melee.

NIN/DRK
Lots of hate gain all around provided it has support.
1 very effective way to reduce damage, thanks to an additional Ni shadow and high eva (which isn't always a factor...)
Stun (when applicable, otherwise act like I'm talking about /RDM or something)

Has one oshit button that makes everyone else go "oh ***".

What am I missing?

EDIT: As Caiyuo pointed out, a lot of this is essentially academic thanks to the prevalence of cotanking strategies, but I still want to know.
 Caitsith.Heimdall
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By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-07-03 18:56:37  
hmmm nin/dnc actually does have a voke so if the new ja adds enough enmity it could be a feasible new tanking sub not just for solo
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