Delve Weapons Only
Delve weapons only
So mandating Delve weapons is alright for hard things, but not for easy things?
Gotcha. I should have known you meant something entirely different than what you posted.
I don't know if you seriously don't understand what I meant, but I'm not going to respond just to let you ravage my posts picking at my limited expression capabilities.
Apples, meet oranges.
You're comparing a shout group friendly event where you're not screening everyone to a linkshell event where you're only going with people who you know, and besides that two entirely different levels of content. Get real over here.
Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing the irony and hypocrisy in that second post.
You're comparing a shout group friendly event where you're not screening everyone to a linkshell event where you're only going with people who you know, and besides that two entirely different levels of content. Get real over here.
Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing the irony and hypocrisy in that second post.
Did you even read the untouched post that I quoted?
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I also support delve weapon only for a Delve naakual. Although I haven't fought any, I suppose they're tough enough to warrant such selection.
Here Kap. Maybe this'll help.
con·text
[kon-tekst]
noun
1.
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: "You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context."
2.
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
con·text
[kon-tekst]
noun
1.
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: "You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context."
2.
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Asura.Tarquine said: »
What this will lead to is an unbridgeable divide between those who jumped on the Delve train as it left the station in the first 2-3 weeks, and those who are returning, or starting for the first time to come back.
You should probably read the thread before chiming in
In a homogeneously demanding environment, a person without a Delve weapon still has several means to participating
1) Play one of the 10+ jobs that don't require one
2) Create your own party
You should read the entirety of my post before replying.
Asura.Tarquine said: »
ofc, you can always start your own run, but by not allowing the mindset of everyone to be blindly "Delve only", then we can make it easier for all to casually slip in and out of this content (which was again Matsui's ideology!)
I have all jobs levelled, so i'm personally fine with jumping on another job. But of the 22 Jobs available, we are already in a certain mind set of specific acceptable jobs which are taken to Delve runs:
“Heavy” melee DDs (WAR/DRK/MNK/SAM/lolDRG?) – “R/E/M/D or better”
Support (BRD WHM RDM SCH COR [GEO?] Possibly THF for TH) – don’t have to be uber geared.
Tank (PLD) – “Needs Ochain/Aegis”
So no love for BLM/PUP/SMN/BLU/RNG/NIN/RUN/DNC/BST
Now, the only easy route into that is the support, and some people just do not want to play support job. Why should they have to level one, just be able to play the content? Especially those who have already put hours into making the other (actually perfectly viable jobs) just to fit into the blinkered mind set of the masses?
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Did you even read the untouched post that I quoted?
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I also support delve weapon only for a Delve naakual. Although I haven't fought any, I suppose they're tough enough to warrant such selection.
Compare these two things:
Delve Plasm Farming
Delve Boss Naakual
What process would you go through in order to do these events? Would you bring a shout group? Would you organize a linkshell event or an event among people that you know and trust?
Common sense. The context of Seha's post is quite clear.
The issue isn't an issue when the issue should not exist to begin with. issue.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
you're not screening everyone to a linkshell event where you're only going with people who you know
I apologize if I made myself misunderstood, it was just an extemporary thought not a counterargument at anything, that is why I didn't feel the need to give any deeper context.
Fairy.Ghaleon said: »
gonna chime in on the "only takes a few hours whats the big deal" part of that arguement.
i've joined like 3 pickups only have 7kish points.
Not everybody is doing 7~8k points per run. just saying lol.
pug's suck :( i swear to god if i see another 85 masamune i'm going to break my keyboard.
i've joined like 3 pickups only have 7kish points.
Not everybody is doing 7~8k points per run. just saying lol.
pug's suck :( i swear to god if i see another 85 masamune i'm going to break my keyboard.
I have well over 30k plasms yet I haven't cleared a single T IV/V. I have yet to find a pickup group that can kill Tax'et, for example.
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You're all wildly hypocritical with regard to the clarity of others' responses. Just getting that out of the way. And I've overestimated your intelligence if you didn't realize that irony was the intent.
Anyway, a Delve weapon will increase a bad player's damage output by an incredibly similar % as it would a good player's, but said weapon is now somehow an appropriate tool for standardization. Please explain.
Anyway, a Delve weapon will increase a bad player's damage output by an incredibly similar % as it would a good player's, but said weapon is now somehow an appropriate tool for standardization. Please explain.
I'm going to ignore the first part of your post for the reason that it's irrelevant and you're just looking for a cop out for a previous blunder, even though the two events are completely dissimilar.
You're melding two events into one and applying the same standardization to both. Can you really sit there and tell me that you can compare plasm farming with Delve Naakual killing in all seriousness?
Hint: One of these requires Delve weapons to do effectively (note: AT ALL); the other one does not.
Hint 2: One of these has the potential to involve bad players, the other one does not.
Hint 3: We've been arguing in circles this entire time and I'm not sure you've realized it yet.
You're melding two events into one and applying the same standardization to both. Can you really sit there and tell me that you can compare plasm farming with Delve Naakual killing in all seriousness?
Hint: One of these requires Delve weapons to do effectively (note: AT ALL); the other one does not.
Hint 2: One of these has the potential to involve bad players, the other one does not.
Hint 3: We've been arguing in circles this entire time and I'm not sure you've realized it yet.
My sentence was written after reading the guy saying "QQ now you all know how I feel", as a mean to say that although the necessity of delve weapons is highly debatable for plasma farming, it will be a requirement for a naakual delve.
As I said, just an extemporary thought, and I hope that is cleared enough now. Before replying, remember I wasn't trying to argue against the other topic at hand.
As I said, just an extemporary thought, and I hope that is cleared enough now. Before replying, remember I wasn't trying to argue against the other topic at hand.
Comparing the two events is a red herring. The %increase offered by a Delve weapon is prominent or it isn't.
And I don't require a cop out. I'm not embarrassed that I made an error, I'm embarrassed that you used it as ammunition repeatedly
And I don't require a cop out. I'm not embarrassed that I made an error, I'm embarrassed that you used it as ammunition repeatedly
That would be relevant if I'd actually intended to use it as ammunition and didn't actually read your error for what it actually said rather than assuming it meant something completely irrelevant to the conversation because your post had no supporting context toward your actual intention.
As for comparing the events being a red herring... no. No, it isn't. You're still not getting it. Having an alliance full of Delve weapons is integral to defeating the Delve Naakuals, having an alliance full of Delve weapons is not integral to efficiently farming Delve for plasm. The cost of inviting someone who's bad with a Delve weapon is so close to that of inviting someone with another weapon that it is meaningless to gate them out from an alliance, just as meaningless as telling people to suck it up and go make their own party if they don't meet your criteria for entry, and even more meaningless when we can use your own argument of "it only takes a couple of runs to get a weapon anyway" against you, completely nullifying the issue entirely anyway. Seriously, not a difficult concept.
I understand your position, but comparing something like a R/M/E only shout to a Delve weapon only shout is ludicrous as they're leaps and bounds away from each other in so many respects.
As for comparing the events being a red herring... no. No, it isn't. You're still not getting it. Having an alliance full of Delve weapons is integral to defeating the Delve Naakuals, having an alliance full of Delve weapons is not integral to efficiently farming Delve for plasm. The cost of inviting someone who's bad with a Delve weapon is so close to that of inviting someone with another weapon that it is meaningless to gate them out from an alliance, just as meaningless as telling people to suck it up and go make their own party if they don't meet your criteria for entry, and even more meaningless when we can use your own argument of "it only takes a couple of runs to get a weapon anyway" against you, completely nullifying the issue entirely anyway. Seriously, not a difficult concept.
I understand your position, but comparing something like a R/M/E only shout to a Delve weapon only shout is ludicrous as they're leaps and bounds away from each other in so many respects.
All circle jerking arguments aside, I suddenly feel the need to expand on my vocabulary.
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Asura.Hotsoups said: »
All circle jerking arguments aside, I suddenly feel the need to expand on my vocabulary.
[+]
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Did you even read the untouched post that I quoted?
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I also support delve weapon only for a Delve naakual. Although I haven't fought any, I suppose they're tough enough to warrant such selection.
So I can hang out with Valefer as I have six weapons already. What a great day indeed!!!!!
HE can show me his, and I will show him mine.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
As for comparing the events being a red herring... no. No, it isn't. You're still not getting it. Having an alliance full of Delve weapons is integral to defeating the Delve Naakuals, having an alliance full of Delve weapons is not integral to efficiently farming Delve for plasm.
1) You claimed that the %increase offered by a poor Delve-farmer was virtually non-existent previously, and are currently arguing that the %increase offered by a good Naakual-farmer is now tantamount to success. The former is either vastly more normative than you care to admit, or a complete contradiction.
2) Again, entirely normative.
Kaparu officially has no ability to recognize differences in context of two scenarios.
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
As for comparing the events being a red herring... no. No, it isn't. You're still not getting it. Having an alliance full of Delve weapons is integral to defeating the Delve Naakuals, having an alliance full of Delve weapons is not integral to efficiently farming Delve for plasm.
1) You claimed that the %increase offered by a poor Delve-farmer was virtually non-existent previously, and are currently arguing that the %increase offered by a good Naakual-farmer is now tantamount to success. The former is either vastly more normative than you care to admit, or a complete contradiction.
2) Again, entirely normative.
1) That's because it is virtually non-existent due to relativity and relevancy. You're getting next to nothing by having a bad player with a Delve weapon over a bad player with another weapon, they are both going to perform poorly, and the one with the Delve weapon will be extremely unlikely to pull away from the other in such a way that the Delve weapon is a major factor in the efficacy of the run. A good player who is using their weapon appropriately and thus actually using the increased damage to their advantage and the advantage of their group is going to be relatively more valuable than the gimp who can't break 50k dmg in a plasm farm group, because they're actually using the advantage of the weapon and being useful to the group and worth their slot at all.
2) you really like that concept don't you? Do you not see why what I'm saying is completely accurate? Do you know what the Delve Naakual fights entail? Surely you see that the weapon you use on fodder has far less of an impact than which one you use on the tip-of-the-iceberg boss class monsters, particularly when comparing them in the context that we have been.
I honestly think he is just not able to sleep and giving us all a good troll at this point lol.
There's no way he is that ignorant or full of himself.
(though i definitely could be wrong)
edit- going to bed now, goodnight guys, I'll read this later lol.
oh wait, no i won't, this thread will probably be nuked in a couple hours lol.
There's no way he is that ignorant or full of himself.
(though i definitely could be wrong)
edit- going to bed now, goodnight guys, I'll read this later lol.
oh wait, no i won't, this thread will probably be nuked in a couple hours lol.
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »
So I can hang out with Valefer as I have six weapons already. What a great day indeed!!!!!
HE can show me his, and I will show him mine.
HE can show me his, and I will show him mine.
his penis I think
[+]
Relevancy is, again, a red herring.
You cannot simultaneously assert that a weapon's efficacy does nothing in one situation and something in another.
A bad player in a plasm farm wielding Rigors instead of 90Vere is going to increase the group's productivity by an accountable amount. That's something. Whether you think that something is appreciable is normative an irrelevant.
You cannot simultaneously assert that a weapon's efficacy does nothing in one situation and something in another.
A bad player in a plasm farm wielding Rigors instead of 90Vere is going to increase the group's productivity by an accountable amount. That's something. Whether you think that something is appreciable is normative an irrelevant.
Except I can because the weapon's efficacy is completely reliant on the situation and the wielder. I don't give a damn if one gimp is outDDing another gimp by 15%, 15% of ***is still ***.
Tell me this is wrong:
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
A bad player in a plasm farm wielding Rigors instead of 90Vere is going to increase the group's productivity by an accountable amount. That's something. Whether you think that something is appreciable is normative an irrelevant.
The sentence itself isn't wrong, but the concept behind it is. You're assuming that the difference is enough to make the poor Rigor MNK worth the slot just because he's outDDing the 90Vere MNK. This will not always be the case. This is what I've been saying the entire time. It is for this reason (mainly, there's others that have been addressed) that gating someone based on weapon alone is pointless.
[+]
If a weapon is better it's better, there's no argument about that. But does it matter if I go to a worm party with an axe or a dagger?
Great, you got a better weapon, but its relevancy remains limited to the context.
Great, you got a better weapon, but its relevancy remains limited to the context.
[+]
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